Revelation 22:8-13

[Kaisar]

Hello everyone! i am new to CAF, sort of. I visit the site almost daily but have only recently joined.

I would like your insight on the following:

I know intuitively that the angel speaking in Rev 22:9 is not the same person speaking three verses down in Rev 22:12 (or is it?!), otherwise the Alpha and Omega aka Jesus/God, would be reprimanding John for worshipping him, but following the text as is makes it difficult to really see this, especially when trying to explain it to a JW when trying to establish that Jesus=Alpha and Omega=Jehova, which is what i’m trying to do.

So what is a good way to determine or explain how this is two completely different people speaking?

Any help with this would be appreciated.

 

[CEM5]

Hello everyone! i am new to CAF, sort of. I visit the site almost daily but have only recently joined.

I would like your insight on the following:

I know intuitively that the angel speaking in Rev 22:9 is not the same person speaking three verses down in Rev 22:12 (or is it?!), otherwise the Alpha and Omega aka Jesus/God, would be reprimanding John for worshipping him, but following the text as is makes it difficult to really see this, especially when trying to explain it to a JW when trying to establish that Jesus=Alpha and Omega=Jehova, which is what i’m trying to do.

So what is a good way to determine or explain how this is two completely different people speaking?

Any help with this would be appreciated.

Hi there,

This is how I view that passage (which I will post - bold and underline added for emphasis)

Rev 22
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me; 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your comrades the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” 12 "See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

You will note that when the angel is speaking, all he said is within the quotations. When the angel’s words go on, it is clear the angel is continuing to speak in verses10 and 11, since the quotation marks enclose those two verses unbrokenly. Then we see in verses 12 and 13 new quotation marks enclosing the ‘words of the prophecy of this book’ which are the words of the Lord, the Alpha and Omega.

blessings,

CEM

P.S.

Maybe breaking it up as follows might make it clearer?

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me; 9 but he said to me,

“You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your comrades the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”

10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

12 “See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Hi there,

This is how I view that passage (which I will post - bold and underline added for emphasis)

Rev 22
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me; 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your comrades the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” 12 "See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

You will note that when the angel is speaking, all he said is within the quotations. When the angel’s words go on, it is clear the angel is continuing to speak in verses10 and 11, since the quotation marks enclose those two verses unbrokenly. Then we see in verses 12 and 13 new quotation marks enclosing the ‘words of the prophecy of this book’ which are the words of the Lord, the Alpha and Omega.

I can understand the confusion here because Ancient Greek didn’t have quotation marks, so it would be even more difficult to figure out who was speaking. Even in the Douay Rheims Version there are no quotation marks. But if you look down a little further in verse 16, it says: “I Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star.”

So we know at that point that Jesus is talking, and can go back up a bit to figure out where he starts. It may even be possible that Jesus started talking in verse 10 or 11, and that verse 9 was just an interjection by the angel.

Another possibility that just occurred to me is that the angel is simply recounting the message the Lord wanted him to deliver… So the angel could be the one saying “I am the Alpha and Omega”, but he’s delivering a message and not speaking for himself.

 

[CopticChristian]

Hello everyone! i am new to CAF, sort of. I visit the site almost daily but have only recently joined.

I would like your insight on the following:

I know intuitively that the angel speaking in Rev 22:9 is not the same person speaking three verses down in Rev 22:12 (or is it?!), otherwise the Alpha and Omega aka Jesus/God, would be reprimanding John for worshipping him, but following the text as is makes it difficult to really see this, especially when trying to explain it to a JW when trying to establish that Jesus=Alpha and Omega=Jehova, which is what i’m trying to do.

So what is a good way to determine or explain how this is two completely different people speaking?

Any help with this would be appreciated.

Kaisar,

Trust a Scriptural Scholar. Sometimes Protestant Scholarship can be useful. David Chilton wrote Days of Vengance, a commentary on Revelation. Scott Hahn recommends this book for the Postmillenial view…

**Speaking on behalf of Christ, the angel repeats the theme of the prophecy, **underscoring its immediacy: Behold, I am coming quickly (cf. 1:7; 2:5, 16; 3:11; 16:15); in fact, the word come or coming (erchomai) is used seven times in Chapter 22 alone: "The frequency of the assurance now before us, shows with what earnestness it was made."8 Our study of the New Testament is drastically off-course if we fail to take into account the apostolic expectation of an imminent Coming of Christ (not the Second Coming) which would destroy “this generation” of Israel and fully establish the New Covenant Church. This message was not to be taken lightly, and there is an implicit warning in Revela¬tion’s Sixth Beatitude, a promise that echoes the First (1:3): Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book. Again, St. John stresses the ethical response of his audience to the truths they have heard. He has given them commandments to obey (cf. v. 14), not only explicitly but implicitly: He has re¬vealed the activity of heaven as a pattern for life on earth (cf. Matt. 6:10).

and…

**14 Continuing to speak through the angel, Christ pro¬nounces the Seventh Beatitude of Revelation: **Blessed are those who do His commandments, the present participle emphasizing the ongoing duty of obedience. God requires not just a one-time profession of faith, but a continuing life of repentance and con¬fessing Christ. Obedience characterizes the redeemed, as St. John declares elsewhere: