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jinc1019
Guest
Can someone explain the differences between the two views and overall view of Revelation? Thanks in advance to all the future posters!
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JRKH
Guest
First of all let’s be clear that there is no one “Protestant view” there are many and though they often share things in common, they may choose to define things differently.
Any way your question can cover a huge amount of subjects, but the most foundational difference is in the view of authority.
The General Protestant view is that Authority is vested in the Bible. Commonly called Sola Scriptura this view denies the need for an authoritative Church.
The ancient Christian Churches, Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, both believe that the Church, descended from the Apostles, holds the authentic Christ granted authority to interpret Scripture etc.
No matter what other differences are discussed among the various Christian groups, they will all evolve down to this one…Who has the authority to determine which view is right ans which view is wrong…
Peace
James
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jinc1019
Guest
Thanks for posting James. I understand the Protestant view includes many views, but the Catholic view should uniform, what is their view? Does the Catholic Church teach the rapture, etc.?First of all let’s be clear that there is no one “Protestant view” there are many and though they often share things in common, they may choose to define things differently.
Any way your question can cover a huge amount of subjects, but the most foundational difference is in the view of authority.
The General Protestant view is that Authority is vested in the Bible. Commonly called Sola Scriptura this view denies the need for an authoritative Church.
The ancient Christian Churches, Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, both believe that the Church, descended from the Apostles, holds the authentic Christ granted authority to interpret Scripture etc.
No matter what other differences are discussed among the various Christian groups, they will all evolve down to this one…Who has the authority to determine which view is right ans which view is wrong…
Peace
James
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JRKH
Guest
No the Catholic Church does not teach “The Rapture”. I don’t know about the “etc.”…
Peace
James
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jinc1019
Guest
Lol…I know I was vague.No the Catholic Church does not teach “The Rapture”. I don’t know about the “etc.”…
Peace
James
When I say etc…think the “Left Behind” book series.
Basically, I am trying to get overall understanding of the Catholic position as well as some of the broad interpretations held by various Protestants groups.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
As far as I know, the Protestant reformer Martin Luther was the first person to identify the woman Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth’s abominations, of Revelation 17 and the following chapters, with the Catholic Church, despite numerous explicit references in the text identifying the woman with a city. In doing so, he was able to justify leaving the Catholic Church by citing Revelation 18:4 in which a voice from heaven was heard saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins…” Otherwise, by 1 John 2:18-19, those who leave the Catholic Church are identified as antichrists. Catholics tend to identify the woman Babylon the great with the city of pagan Rome or with the city of apostate Jerusalem or some other city.
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jinc1019
Guest
Thanks for contributing, it really does help. Do you know what the broad Catholic belief is on Revelation though?
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Gophers
Guest
In Revelation 22 God rebukes those praying to other than God or Christ.
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jinc1019
Guest
Not sure what you are getting at here? Are you suggesting Catholics shouldn’t pray to saints, for instance?
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pablope
Guest
You can read Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper, which he views Revelation as the Mass…heaven on earth.
The Lamb’s Supper reveals a long-lost secret of the Church: The early Christians’ key to understanding the mysteries of the Mass was the New Testament Book of Revelation. With its bizarre imagery, its mystic visions of heaven, and its end-of-time prophecies, Revelation mirrors the sacrifice and celebration of the Eucharist.
For the end times beliefs…I think this will give you an idea…scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html
There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year “millennium” (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).
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(1) Post-millennialism – this view interprets the “thousand years” as a very long time. This view also holds that God’s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.
(2) Pre-millenialism (also called “millenarianism”) – like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the “thousand years” as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ’s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.
(3) Amillennialism – this view also interprets the “thousand years” symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the “strong man” (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, “I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.” Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).
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(1) Post-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur right after the tribulation and immediately before the Second Coming of Christ. This view can be consistent with Scripture and Catholic teaching to the extent it holds that the rapture and Christ’s Second Coming occur together, after the tribulation and the Church Militant on earth. See, for example, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thess. 1:1-12.
(2) Pre-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture before the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. In Heb. 9:28, it is clear that Christ will appear a second and final time, when he comes in glory to save us. This view also is inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12 where the rapture and the Second Coming occur together.
(3) Mid-tribulational view – this view holds that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. The problem with this view is that it also requires three comings of Christ – first, when He was born in Bethlehem; second, when He returns for the rapture during the middle of the tribulation; third, when He returns at the end of the tribulation and establishes the millennium. As seen in Heb. 9:28, Scripture rejects three comings of Christ. The view is also inconsistent with Matt. 24:24-31; Mark. 13:24-27; and 2 Thess. 2:1-12.
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Gophers
Guest
Yes absolutely. God rebuked man for doing such in Revelations 22. To back it up Timothy 2:5.
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livingwordunity
Guest
Try reading this
“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” -Revelation 5:8***
and this
"And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" -Revelation 8:3-4
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jinc1019
Guest
Good points
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James224
Guest
Protestants usually look at the Book of Revelation as in the future concerning the End Times whereas, the Catholic View looks at it in various ways. Catholics do see some of the End Times in it but also a vision of the Mass in general. Also we see one of the verses that provides the basis of the Assumption of Mary in Rev 11:19 and then in 12:1 - 12:18 is the story of Mary being persued by the devil after she gives birth to Jesus. Something else in ch 12 that’s interesting is that the great battle in heaven was BEFORE Genesis (Rev 12:7-9). Also you have a verse to do with the Communion of Saints in Rev 8:3-4. So there are a lot of things other than the End Times.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Even the New Testament authors didn’t teach The Rapture? as many modern n-Cs believe.
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jinc1019
Guest
Thanks James for the general overview, I really appreciate it!
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