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RebeccaJ
Guest
Excellent, Rebecca.And it even started before Noah. The first covenant was even a smaller group of people, a couple, Adam and Eve.
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eddie_too
Guest
tomprossor,
maybe this will clarify why catholics believe what they believe about public revelation, why it ended with the Ascension and why no one receives it now.
first, Jesus is the complete public revelation. after Jesus, there was nothing left for God to reveal to us.
second, every catholic receives this complete revelation during their time in this world. this includes all of the laity, the priests the bishops and the pope. they receive this public revelation, that is new to each of us, through reception of the sacraments, through apostolic succession, through the papacy, and through the preaching of the Word. for each catholic, the fullness of public revelation that is the Lord Jesus is given to them through the RCC.
perhaps it makes more sense if we say that catholics believe that “on going public revelation” is the same as the “deposit of faith”?
it does make sense that those who do not see Jesus as the fullness of divine revelation to want to have God reveal more down through the ages, but that does not make sense to catholics because we place our entire belief (faith), trust (hope) and love (charity) in our Lord Jesus, who is God Himself.
what is it that you think remained for God to reveal after the Life, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ? or, in other words, what is it that you think Jesus did not reveal? or, in still other words, what is it that you think Jesus left unanswered? if I ask a catholic that question, they will answer nothing. Jesus is everything.
it is true that the application of the public revelation must be addressed in every generation and by every individual. that is one reason why we catholics believe that Jesus established the magisterium and the papacy. He established them to renew and preserve in every generation the fullness of divine revelation. Jesus knew that every human being needed to come to faith in Him to live eternally with the Father. we catholics believe that trying to add to Jesus is not only futile but, in the end, a negative, bad in every way.
it is kind of like the Holy Eucharist. down through the ages there have always been people who reject the Real Presence of Jesus in the consecrated host and wine. we catholics cannot do that because of what It is. It is a communion in body and blood, soul and divinity with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (again, I realize that the Holy Trinity as defined by the RCC’s magisterium is not believed by non-christians, but without the Holy Trinity, it is impossible for anyone to understand Catholicism or even Christianity, which means it is impossible for anyone to understand the fullness of public/divine revelation).
for catholics, it is unthinkable to give up this communion with the Lord. this communion only occurs through reception of the consecrated Body and consecrated Blood of the Lord. this communion is unique (there is NOTHING ELSE LIKE IT) in the created world. prayer can unite us with the Lord spiritually, as can charitable works and reception of the other sacraments, as can penance; but, is only through the Holy Eucharist that we human beings in this world can be united physically with the Incarnate Word. I realize you cannot understand what this means for us to be united physically as well as spiritually with God, but believe me when I tell you it is of such grandeur that abandoning IT is unthinkable. doing without IT is unthinkable. IT is a defining factor of the fullness of the faith. we know that those who reject IT, the physical presence of Jesus in the world through the Holy Eucharist, do not have the fullness of God’s revelation to mankind.
and, as always, it comes back to our belief that Jesus is God Himself, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. my words, I know, fail to adequately convey this great Mystery that compels us catholics to hold fast to Jesus as the Be All and End All of our lives. in the end, it is only faith, a divine gift from our Creator, that allows anyone, including us catholic, to fully enter these Mysteries. however, the first “I believe” is only the beginning. Jesus told us that faith is like a mustard seed, the smallest of seeds that can grow in to a bush big enough to provide a nesting place for birds. in other words, faith grows in both motivation to love and in human understanding within the hearts of those who believe.
I did not mean to go on so long, but you seem so sincere in your beliefs I felt an obligation to be equally sincere in my response. what I have written comes from my heart. I really do not have much else to offer anyone other than faith, hope and love anchored in the Incarnate Word that I have received through the ministry of the RCC. God bless you. I know your heart is in the right place.
maybe this will clarify why catholics believe what they believe about public revelation, why it ended with the Ascension and why no one receives it now.
first, Jesus is the complete public revelation. after Jesus, there was nothing left for God to reveal to us.
second, every catholic receives this complete revelation during their time in this world. this includes all of the laity, the priests the bishops and the pope. they receive this public revelation, that is new to each of us, through reception of the sacraments, through apostolic succession, through the papacy, and through the preaching of the Word. for each catholic, the fullness of public revelation that is the Lord Jesus is given to them through the RCC.
perhaps it makes more sense if we say that catholics believe that “on going public revelation” is the same as the “deposit of faith”?
it does make sense that those who do not see Jesus as the fullness of divine revelation to want to have God reveal more down through the ages, but that does not make sense to catholics because we place our entire belief (faith), trust (hope) and love (charity) in our Lord Jesus, who is God Himself.
what is it that you think remained for God to reveal after the Life, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ? or, in other words, what is it that you think Jesus did not reveal? or, in still other words, what is it that you think Jesus left unanswered? if I ask a catholic that question, they will answer nothing. Jesus is everything.
it is true that the application of the public revelation must be addressed in every generation and by every individual. that is one reason why we catholics believe that Jesus established the magisterium and the papacy. He established them to renew and preserve in every generation the fullness of divine revelation. Jesus knew that every human being needed to come to faith in Him to live eternally with the Father. we catholics believe that trying to add to Jesus is not only futile but, in the end, a negative, bad in every way.
it is kind of like the Holy Eucharist. down through the ages there have always been people who reject the Real Presence of Jesus in the consecrated host and wine. we catholics cannot do that because of what It is. It is a communion in body and blood, soul and divinity with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (again, I realize that the Holy Trinity as defined by the RCC’s magisterium is not believed by non-christians, but without the Holy Trinity, it is impossible for anyone to understand Catholicism or even Christianity, which means it is impossible for anyone to understand the fullness of public/divine revelation).
for catholics, it is unthinkable to give up this communion with the Lord. this communion only occurs through reception of the consecrated Body and consecrated Blood of the Lord. this communion is unique (there is NOTHING ELSE LIKE IT) in the created world. prayer can unite us with the Lord spiritually, as can charitable works and reception of the other sacraments, as can penance; but, is only through the Holy Eucharist that we human beings in this world can be united physically with the Incarnate Word. I realize you cannot understand what this means for us to be united physically as well as spiritually with God, but believe me when I tell you it is of such grandeur that abandoning IT is unthinkable. doing without IT is unthinkable. IT is a defining factor of the fullness of the faith. we know that those who reject IT, the physical presence of Jesus in the world through the Holy Eucharist, do not have the fullness of God’s revelation to mankind.
and, as always, it comes back to our belief that Jesus is God Himself, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. my words, I know, fail to adequately convey this great Mystery that compels us catholics to hold fast to Jesus as the Be All and End All of our lives. in the end, it is only faith, a divine gift from our Creator, that allows anyone, including us catholic, to fully enter these Mysteries. however, the first “I believe” is only the beginning. Jesus told us that faith is like a mustard seed, the smallest of seeds that can grow in to a bush big enough to provide a nesting place for birds. in other words, faith grows in both motivation to love and in human understanding within the hearts of those who believe.
I did not mean to go on so long, but you seem so sincere in your beliefs I felt an obligation to be equally sincere in my response. what I have written comes from my heart. I really do not have much else to offer anyone other than faith, hope and love anchored in the Incarnate Word that I have received through the ministry of the RCC. God bless you. I know your heart is in the right place.
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