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walt2000
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See No. of the post just ahead of this #40 =test
walt2000
walt2000
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walt2000
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Read the thickness of the walls of the holy city coming down from heaven dressed as a bride.144,000 cubits thick.walt2000
Built on twelve foundation stones(twelve apostles) .twelve tribes are also mentioned
12 a mult. of 144 .12x12,walt2000
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walt2000
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I hope you don’t mind me in Revelations, This I my subject ,God made it for me. Personally .walt2000
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walt2000
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The number ofI should have have said “twice ten thousand times ten thousand” instead of 2 hundred million. It makes better sense as a symbolic number.
have you noticed the cavalry is double the size of the number who attend to the Lamb as they encircle the throne?
I looked again and heard the voices of many angels who surrounded the throne and the living creatures and the elders. They were countless in number. (Rev 5:11)
countless: literally, “100,000,000 plus 1,000,000,” used by the author to express infinity.
I know you are big on numbers. Is the number of God 3 and man’s number 6? Is this symbolic of the army of man being twice the size of God’s loyal following, even in heaven?
Peace,
Ryan
god by the way is =1
2 =unity
3 = the trinity no.
4 = earth
5 = prophesy
6 =man
7 = Christ divine no.
8 = a new beginning
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ryanoneil
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walt2000
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What is interesting, is what is around the holy city ,that every body seems not to see.The ones that can’t get in.read that .walt2000
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ryanoneil
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In this verse?
But exclude the outer court of the temple; do not measure it, for it has been handed over to the Gentiles, who will trample the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev 11:2)
Peace,
Ryan
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walt2000
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Also read Rev.22+ Rev.22/15-16.Out side the holy city ,are the dogs,those who practice magic arts the sexually immoral the murderers ,the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practice’s falsehood .
Nobody takes about these .What is Your thoughts on that.?I like to dig into the corners.walt2000
Nobody takes about these .What is Your thoughts on that.?I like to dig into the corners.walt2000
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ryanoneil
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I’m working on branching out into the spiritual sense of Revelation. As you know, I’ve been kind of stuck in the literal. This is the best attempt.
The Temple (and holy city) in the literal sense is the Temple in Jerusalem. Anological the Temple is the body of Jesus. Anagogical it is the Church. Moral it is you and I, because we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
Our old Temple has to die in baptism. We are reborn in the river of life-giving water (the Holy Spirit) and our robes are washed clean. We’ve died to all the things in verse 15, and if we return to them we give up the right to the tree of life and cannot enter the city.
Peace,
Ryan
The Temple (and holy city) in the literal sense is the Temple in Jerusalem. Anological the Temple is the body of Jesus. Anagogical it is the Church. Moral it is you and I, because we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
Literally we are talking about a new Jerusalem which is the Church. Anagogically it is the Church perfected at the end of time. Morally it is talking about our baptism.
Our old Temple has to die in baptism. We are reborn in the river of life-giving water (the Holy Spirit) and our robes are washed clean. We’ve died to all the things in verse 15, and if we return to them we give up the right to the tree of life and cannot enter the city.
Peace,
Ryan
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ryanoneil
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If we go back to OP (Rev 9:13-15) Literally we are talking about the destruction of the Temple (42 months or the 3 1/2 year Jewish-Roman War. And the persecution/protection of Christ’s young Church.
Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and I was told, "Come and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who are worshiping in it. But exclude the outer court of the temple; do not measure it, for it has been handed over to the Gentiles, who will trample the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev 11:1-2)
They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)
Anagogically, The old Temple had to be destroyed to make way for the new Temple. (Christ’s Church) Escatologically it applies to the old/new heaven and earth.
Literally, Jesus’ judgement of the Temple relates to
"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (Mat 24:15)
According to Josephus, the daily sacrifice dedicated to Nero in the Temple in Jerusalem was halted in July of 66 A.D. (WJ, II, 17:2) This Jewish provocation led to the declaration of war by Rome is February of 67 A.D. (WJ, III, 1:2) The war ended precisely forty-two months later when the Temple was burned by Titus’ troops in August of 70 A.D.
I won’t even attempt to make a future fulfillment prediction, eschatologically. I’m interested in it but I’m not that far along. (still connecting the dots) Mostly, there are alot of Junk ideas with major flaws out there. Spauline has some good ideas I want to explore more,
when I feel more grounded in the literal and moral sense.
Morally, on a personal level, it deals with our baptism (or lack there of), our faithfullness to the sacrament, and our sin (or lack there of). We were the old Temple before our baptism and the new Temple after. So, lately I’ve been exploring our personal Temple’s destruction/preservation in relation to the literal sense of Revelation. If I’m faithful I won’t be destroyed, but will inherit eternal life.
Peace,
Ryan
Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and I was told, "Come and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who are worshiping in it. But exclude the outer court of the temple; do not measure it, for it has been handed over to the Gentiles, who will trample the holy city for forty-two months. (Rev 11:1-2)
They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)
Anagogically, The old Temple had to be destroyed to make way for the new Temple. (Christ’s Church) Escatologically it applies to the old/new heaven and earth.
Literally, Jesus’ judgement of the Temple relates to
"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (Mat 24:15)
According to Josephus, the daily sacrifice dedicated to Nero in the Temple in Jerusalem was halted in July of 66 A.D. (WJ, II, 17:2) This Jewish provocation led to the declaration of war by Rome is February of 67 A.D. (WJ, III, 1:2) The war ended precisely forty-two months later when the Temple was burned by Titus’ troops in August of 70 A.D.
I won’t even attempt to make a future fulfillment prediction, eschatologically. I’m interested in it but I’m not that far along. (still connecting the dots) Mostly, there are alot of Junk ideas with major flaws out there. Spauline has some good ideas I want to explore more,
when I feel more grounded in the literal and moral sense.Morally, on a personal level, it deals with our baptism (or lack there of), our faithfullness to the sacrament, and our sin (or lack there of). We were the old Temple before our baptism and the new Temple after. So, lately I’ve been exploring our personal Temple’s destruction/preservation in relation to the literal sense of Revelation. If I’m faithful I won’t be destroyed, but will inherit eternal life.
Peace,
Ryan
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walt2000
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You also might say .
"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (Mat 24:15)
We just might have that now .We just might have that now with the Muslim, in Jerusalem. I hope not.But look at the
Jewish and Christian forces in the holy land,abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.The Muslim ?Then look at what you and our troops are going through in the surrounding countries in that area.anyway that is taking, us of the subject that I was getting at.
To shorten the scenario a bit.
A river comes out of the throne of god, out of the holy city .Getting bigger as it go’s with a olive tree growing in the middle of the river, and on both sides ,whose leafs are to heal the nations.Who Do you attribute The leafs to?an the both sides?Just interested on what you think?walt2000
"When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, (Mat 24:15)
We just might have that now .We just might have that now with the Muslim, in Jerusalem. I hope not.But look at the
Jewish and Christian forces in the holy land,abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.The Muslim ?Then look at what you and our troops are going through in the surrounding countries in that area.anyway that is taking, us of the subject that I was getting at.
To shorten the scenario a bit.
A river comes out of the throne of god, out of the holy city .Getting bigger as it go’s with a olive tree growing in the middle of the river, and on both sides ,whose leafs are to heal the nations.Who Do you attribute The leafs to?an the both sides?Just interested on what you think?walt2000
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walt2000
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Remember it is between the same scenario 1 st. advent white horse, to 2 nd.advent white horse,Walt2000
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walt2000
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The holy city =-------------------------------------------------------------------------- the witnesses built on the foundation of the 12 tribes.
The River---------------------------------------------------------the word of god
Tree of life.------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
It’s leafs----------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
walt2000
The River---------------------------------------------------------the word of god
Tree of life.------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
It’s leafs----------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
walt2000
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ryanoneil
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The verse seems to be lifted from Ezekiel 47:12. I don’t know what the leaves are. I will snoop around and let you know if I find something.
Peace,
Ryan
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walt2000
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I would believe personally that the leaves, are the individuals in the church propagating the word ,to the world,healing with the living word that comes out of the river,thus, the throne of the holy spirit.GOD.walt2000The verse seems to be lifted from Ezekiel 47:12. I don’t know what the leaves are. I will snoop around and let you know if I find something.
Peace,
Ryan
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ryanoneil
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That makes sense.
Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates. (Rev 22:14)
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let the hearer say, “Come.” Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water. (Rev 22:17)
Peace,
Ryan
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walt2000
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Hay ,you and I agree to much.walt2000 no fun!
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ryanoneil
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I apologize. You know I got so side tracked I forgot to respond to part of the OP’s question.
When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
Jesus give the signs and amplifications ending with the above verse because He knew the opportunity for His young church to escape would be razor thin. He had it planned exactly. First He held the angels back to allow them to see the signs
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on land or sea or against any tree. (Rev 7:1)
When they saw the signs, the Christians heeded the Lord’s warning and fled Jerusalem. Then
So the four angels were released, who were prepared for this hour, day, month, and year to kill a third of the human race. (Rev 9:15)
Remember that at the beginning of the seals and trumpets, only the Lamb was able to break the seal of the scroll. He was in control of the events. One moment to soon would not do. Jesus had a promise to keep, down to the exact hour of the exact day.
If you compair Luke’s parallel passages in Matthew the connection to Revelation is more clear.
And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mat 24:31)
The reason I cited Luke is because Jesus was specific about the Temple’s destruction. Most people look at Matthew and jump straight to the end of the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a future final fulfillment of all this at the end of time, I’m just pointing out the literal sense of a first fulfillment.
Peace,
Ryan
In the literal sense, I think it applies to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D Luke 21:5-33. Particularly verses 30-31
When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
Jesus give the signs and amplifications ending with the above verse because He knew the opportunity for His young church to escape would be razor thin. He had it planned exactly. First He held the angels back to allow them to see the signs
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on land or sea or against any tree. (Rev 7:1)
When they saw the signs, the Christians heeded the Lord’s warning and fled Jerusalem. Then
So the four angels were released, who were prepared for this hour, day, month, and year to kill a third of the human race. (Rev 9:15)
Remember that at the beginning of the seals and trumpets, only the Lamb was able to break the seal of the scroll. He was in control of the events. One moment to soon would not do. Jesus had a promise to keep, down to the exact hour of the exact day.
If you compair Luke’s parallel passages in Matthew the connection to Revelation is more clear.
And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mat 24:31)
The reason I cited Luke is because Jesus was specific about the Temple’s destruction. Most people look at Matthew and jump straight to the end of the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a future final fulfillment of all this at the end of time, I’m just pointing out the literal sense of a first fulfillment.
Peace,
Ryan
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