revenge is mine

[_MACE]

hello all. i am a lost sheep with a question. first, some background, i am catholic, i went to catholic schools my whole life and my relationship with God has been strong and weak at times,but i have always tried to follow in his footsteps.
That being said, i have a situation… someone has done something to me and my child, my family…i held my hand from vengeance, because i felt at that time it was not “right”…since then the situation weighed heavily on me and was like a huge truck on my back…in my life i had always destroyed my enemies to protect myself and to send a message not to rise against me or my family…I have always retaliated against those who tried to do harm to me or my child/family…and always i felt that is was just and right, the hand of God on my shoulder as i struck…this time was different, there were some other reasons i didnt strike, but ever since that day, i felt like i had failed.
Finally, something snapped inside me and i took vengeance against my enemy…almost all at once i creid and felt the weight being lifted from me…i felt God say to me…“now that is the son i know”…God is a vengeful God and is it not right to follow in his footsteps, should we turn cheek and let people harm us? should we not strike back and have people know they can continue to take adavantage of us? Should we be like sheep or wolves in this day of desperation? I am so confused, please help me…the overwhelming feeling of accomplishment and the feeling of protecting my family at all costs and to let my enemies know NOT to strike against me again is so strong.

sorry if this seems too hardcore for this forum, i have noone to ask.
nowhere to go.
thank you so much
Mace

 

[Spirithound]

hello all. i am a lost sheep with a question.

i felt God say to me…“now that is the son i know”…God is a vengeful God and is it not right to follow in his footsteps, should we turn cheek and let people harm us?

This was not God speaking. You claim to be a lost sheep, start acting like a sheep.

There is a criminal law system in place to punish those who do wrong. The individual is not so empowered.

 

[_MACE]

the “system” does not work.^^^^^^^
we all know that
i consider this bad adviice…to leave important moral choices to the government?
no thanks . anyone else?

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

It’s certainly understandable to want have “closure” after years of waiting for vengeance. Closure is a natural desire and can assist individuals to move on from personal trauma. When you are hurt by someone, in your anger, you want to hurt him back for vengeance. However, you have only continued the cycle of violence and revenge. Could not friends, associates and family take revenge back on you? *Who will stop the cycle? *If not you and I, who will it be? Anger and the desire for vengeance, acts like a spiritual poison that ultimately degrades the quality of your own life as much as it injures the life of another person. You will feel a sense of immediate relief. However, it is fleeting and illusionary. You have not healed the true injury, only reacted to it.

Being a ‘doormat’ is not what you are called to due. Merely suppressing your feelings will lead to an undercurrent of suspicion and resentment. You need to acquire a healthy response to feelings of hurt. Many people become preoccupied with their immediate desires and have little, selfless consciousness of anyone or anything else around them. Revenge permeates our way of thinking because it pervades in our desire to act with little regard to others. A healthier (from a long term perspective) response to being hurt and insulted is to forgive the person. This requires that you decide to set aside a desire to see a person hurt and recognize the injury to you is an unfortunate incident. Not easy given our natural inclinations and desires.

There is no avoiding the consequences of injury and anger; you can recognize our unconscious anger and desires while learning to grant forgiveness or you can let the toxicity of revenge control you and your actions. Forgiveness permits healing as it releases your anger for positive results. Vengeance is simply a reaction to our unconscious angry desires and does not address the deep, underlying root causes.

 

[_MACE]

^^^ thank you. this is something i am wrestling with at this time. forgiveness. its hard for me when it concerns my child. At this time, i cannot stand there and let someone do harm to her. i guess i have sinned.
may God forgive me…until then, let my enemies know that this will not happen again.
i guess i need to go to church and ask God if this is what i am destined to be
thank you …and anyone else who can help.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

^^^ thank you. this is something i am wrestling with at this time. forgiveness. its hard for me when it concerns my child. At this time, i cannot stand there and let someone do harm to her. i guess i have sinned.
may God forgive me…until then, let my enemies know that this will not happen again.
i guess i need to go to church and ask God if this is what i am destined to be
thank you …and anyone else who can help.

Learning forgiveness is difficult, especially when we are used to handling our anger in a different manner. It will take time to internalize it in your mind. Keep trying and it will pay off in the long run. However, you are not to stand there a let things happen to your child. Forgiveness isn’t about passively allowing thing to occur and suppressing our feelings.

 

[bjmad]

^^^ thank you. this is something i am wrestling with at this time. forgiveness. its hard for me when it concerns my child. At this time, i cannot stand there and let someone do harm to her. i guess i have sinned.
may God forgive me…until then, let my enemies know that this will not happen again.
i guess i need to go to church and ask God if this is what i am destined to be
thank you …and anyone else who can help.

When you say the Our Father and you get to

“Forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against us.”

You will be forgiven the same way you forgave others. My wife had something terrible happen to her when she was 16. When I met her 6 years ago, she had a difficult time forgiving. She held everything in. It tore her up for years allowing that pain to take over. It caused her to be very overly protective of her family, harsh, loss of compassion, unable to have empathy and unwilling to compromise. She never saw this in herself. She has recently been able to forgive in the last year or so. Is she a different person now? YES. Much more loving, compassionate and understanding. She is 46 years old now. She is still protective but is less judging of others, less critical of situations, more loving. Her heart has grown tremendously. It was very difficult for her. She even wound up in Jail overnight. (Before I met her). Her faith and obedience to God saved her.

 

[_MACE]

thank you. I will try to hold my hand from revenge as ive tried before…It festers inside me and calls for me to do whats “right”. its hard for me to control. when i decide to complete the task of vengeance its done with no hesitation, mercy, or emotion…afterwards my emotions run through me and leave me breathless . I fell like i have done Gods will…is this wrong of me to feel no emotion upon striking mine enemy?

and these feelings of Gods approval, how do explain this…almost immediately i feel something from above and its not negative at all…its positive…it makes me cry and smile all at once…

 

[Joe_5859]

I recommend talking to your local parish priest about this.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

…is this wrong of me to feel no emotion upon striking mine enemy?

Absolutely. When we have no feelings for others, when we have no compassion, we are not doing God’s work.

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
- Matthew 5:44-46

 

[_MACE]

Absolutely. When we have no feelings for others, when we have no compassion, we are not doing God’s work.

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
- Matthew 5:44-46

I feel I must talk to a priest before this consumes me…I cannot deny or not listen to the voice inside of me…it seems to be God, guiding my hand…and afterwards…the voice that says “now that is the son i know” i heard this so loud it was like an explosion in my mind…is this not God…? Is this satan? How must I not follow the voice that haunts my every waking moment and drives me to complete the task in front of me? Tolove someone who has hurt my daughter i feel will never happen.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat,
and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink,
for you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the Lord will reward you.
—Proverbs 25:21-22

Hatred stirs up strife,
but love covers all offenses.
—Proverbs 10:12

do good to those who hate you,

If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
—Luke 6:27-35

Mace,
Satan is very good at deceiving people. He especially tries with those who love God. The voice you hear and the consolation you receive are very real I am sure, but they most certainly do not come from God.

God did not defend Jesus as He gave Himself up to torture and death - Jesus did not defend Himself. Think of the injustices that were going on in the time He was on earth. Jesus could have put an end to all of it. Indeed, one day He will…

The passages above from Scripture show that love and peace are stronger and are a greater testimony to our faith than violence or revenge. It also shows our trust in God not to retaliate against our enemies. Justice may not prevail in our times, but we trust that one day God will judge and punish more righteously than we ever could.

I am not devoutly Catholic at this time as I question where God would like me to commit, but there are many good examples of Catholic saints that endured mistreatment and refrained from retaliation in times of injustice. I believe strongly in the stranger and pilgrim way of life; that we are not to live this present, earthly life as if it were our true home, or expecting peace and justice to reign here. Our home is in Heaven and there are difficult things to endure while we are here. This is how we carry our cross, and we must do so with the same patience, love and perseverance as Jesus did as He carried His.

Stay close to Jesus and you will not have to bare your crosses alone. “My yoke is easy and my burden is light”…

Pax~

 

[_MACE]

oooh man i guess i am on the wrong path afer reading all this scripture…i have read and been taught this before, i have been lost for so long, i guess ive made my own rules…i must ask for forgiveness now as im sure my actions have harmed not only my enemy but those surrounding him. This line of good and evil so blurry to me now, why must this voice drive me so, when will the true voice of God come down upon me and how will i know when or whos voice it is…from what you are saying I have been following the voice of Satan…may God forgive me now…I do not mean to harm others I cannot control it…is has become me and i have become it… If something inside you makes you who you are and makes you do what you do, how can i resist these urges because i feel i cannot do it on my own…am i possessed?..Oh my God. make it stop. …at least this conversation has slowed my hand from another strike…Thank you for your time. when i look at my daughter she smiles at me…i am here to protect her, i will always protect her…if i burn in hell, so be it…no one will do these things to her without reprisal…i guess i am destined to a lake of fire and will gladly go for her

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

oooh man i guess i am on the wrong path afer reading all this scripture…i have read and been taught this before, i have been lost for so long, i guess ive made my own rules…i must ask for forgiveness now as im sure my actions have harmed not only my enemy but those surrounding him. This line of good and evil so blurry to me now, why must this voice drive me so, when will the true voice of God come down upon me and how will i know when or whos voice it is…from what you are saying I have been following the voice of Satan…may God forgive me now…I do not mean to harm others I cannot control it…is has become me and i have become it… If something inside you makes you who you are and makes you do what you do, how can i resist these urges because i feel i cannot do it on my own…am i possessed?..Oh my God. make it stop. …at least this conversation has slowed my hand from another strike…Thank you for your time. when i look at my daughter she smiles at me…i am here to protect her, i will always protect her…if i burn in hell, so be it…no one will do these things to her without reprisal…i guess i am destined to a lake of fire and will gladly go for her

Don’t despair. God is a good and forgiving God. Your enemy is Satan, remember that. And God is much more powerful than he. You need to make a good confession to a priest and then see if that priest can give you a little council as to how to make ammends for your actions. But then… and here’s the important part… leave that church knowing you are FORGIVEN! Darkness can have no hold on you if you keep running to Jesus when you have turned from Him (sin). You are called to the same holiness every saint has been called to, and you can do it with His help. You don’t HAVE to become “it”. And you do not have to do it alone. You are only outside of God’s help and protection when you turn from Him. He is always ready to welcome you, like the prodigal son, back into His merciful love.

God’s voice is very clear, through the church, through the Scriptures. It is not uncommon to become “lukewarm” and forget what is most important. Sometimes it is a gradual crossing over into darkness, like a frog immersed in water that is unknowingly being set to boil… We don’t even notice it sometimes. Doesn’t matter how far off the path you’ve gotten, God can help you overcome your urges, He can forgive any sin and can restore you back to the right path again.

If you love your daughter the best protection you can provide her is first and foremost spiritual protection. Don’t succumb to the wiles of the Devil or you will lose more than what you have already lost through the wicked actions of your “enemy”. Give her a godly example of humility, meekness and mercy and leave revenge to God if the civil authorities have been unsuccessful. You may be willing to go to the lake of fire for her but are you also willing that she enter in behind you?

Run to Jesus and get this thing off your conscience in a good confession before Satan binds you more than you are already bound. Then know that you have His GRACE to strengthen you - and with that grace you CAN OVERCOME! That’s how the saints became and become saints… Aim for that and take your daughter to the heights of sanctity with you. YOU CAN DO IT! With God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!

Pax~

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Here’s a little something else that might strengthen you. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the Divine Office of Liturgy of the Hours, but it is amazingly good at keeping our eyes and hearts in focus throughout the day.

divineoffice.org/

It is loaded with Scripture - particularly the Psalms. I often find the cry of my heart in the Psalms. Just hit “today” and “morning prayer” in the morning sometime and “evening prayer” in the later afternoon or evening when you get a chance. (by all means do all of them! I do the Invitatory which is like an introduction to the beginning of the day, then Morning Prayer, then late morning or midday i do the Office, midafternoon I do Dayprayer, then evening Evening Prayer and Night Prayer before bed.) Hit the arrow to listen (if you can or want to) and let the “prayer of the church” (as the Catholic Church calls it…) pray for you. Before you know it you are praying right along with it.

Each prayer period begins with “God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me.” What could be more appropriate?

Here is a few excerpts from today:

Psalm 119:9-16
II (Beth)

How shall the young remain sinless?
By obeying your word.
I have sought you with all my heart:
let me not stray from your commands.

I treasure your promise in my heart
lest I sin against you.
Blessed are you, O Lord;
teach me your statutes.

GET A LOAD OF THIS! from Psalm 17…

I kept from violence because of your word,
I kept my feet in your paths;
there was no faltering in my steps.

I am here and I call, you will hear me, O God.
Turn your ear to me; hear my words.
Display your great love, you whose right hand saves
your friends from those who rebel against them.

Guard me as the apple of your eye.
Hide me in the shadow of your wings
from the violent attack of the wicked.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit:
as it was in the beginning, is now,
and will be for ever. Amen.

And this…

My foes encircle me with deadly intent.
Their hearts tight shut, their mouths speak proudly.
They advance against me, and now they surround me.

Their eyes are watching to strike me to the ground
as though they were lions ready to claw
or like some young lion crouched in hiding.

Lord, arise, confront them, strike them down!
Let your sword rescue my soul from the wicked;
let your hand, O Lord, rescue me from men,
from men whose reward is in this present life.

You give them their fill of your treasures;
they rejoice in abundance of offspring
and leave their wealth to their children.

As for me, in my justice I shall see your face
and be filled, when I awake, with the sight of your glory.

See the part I enlarged? Our enemies sometimes seem to be rewarded in this life. They might not be punished and may even be thriving materially, economically and health-wise…

See the wisdom of the Psalms? And the Divine Office is set up in such a way as to recognize the hardships that we endure in a day’s time and remind us that in those times we are to turn to God with full trust and rest with the peace of understanding that He is in
control whether or not it may seem so.

Will pray for you~

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

God is not telling you to take revenge. That is completely contrary to everything Jesus taught us. Did you know that Jesus not only tells us not to take revenge on our enemies but to bless them. Yes, bless them. Furthermore, scripture tells us that revenge is up to the Lord NOT you. Who is in your mind telling you to take revenge? Well, you could suffering from a mental problem and should get yourself checked out OR you could be hearing the enemy (satan) who would just love for you to ignore Jesus and take revenge. In that case, command him to go, in Jesus’ Name, to the feet of the Lord to be disposed of by His Divine Will. I would also recommend some serious time in prayer, particularly in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Pray for the desire to forgive and let the Lord have this person and ask that HIS will be done not your will. Whatever this person did to your daughter is done, it cannot be undone. But it can either go on doing damage to you and possibly your daughter or you can take control and not let this person have one more minute of power over you. You must forgive the person for your own sake–this is how you are freed from the bondage of anger and vengeance.

PS. Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you are instantly over the pain and anger and it doesn’t mean that civil justice should not be pursued if that is applicable. You may get to the point where you no longer seek vengeance which is definitely good, but you may still have the hurt in your heart. Keep seeking the Lord for healing of all those wounds (for both you and your daughter).

 

[Philthy]

…I cannot deny or not listen to the voice inside of me…it seems to be God, guiding my hand…and afterwards…the voice that says “now that is the son i know” i heard this so loud it was like an explosion in my mind…is this not God…? Is this satan?

You might want to try comparing the “voice inside” you hear to the voice of God from Scripture - specifically the NT. I don’t think you will recognize “the voice” inside as the one revealed in Scripture. But mostly I think you should talk to someone (your priest) about your specific circumstances…

 

[bjmad]

MACE, by admitting your weakness is a step in the right direction. Maybe several steps as you describe how deep the emotions are. You have been given a lot of advise here and shown some very pertinent scripture that relates to your situation. You are here for a reason. This is an opportunity for you and remember, nothing is impossible with God. You have to do your part as well and seek help. I’m sure we all feel for you and are praying for you. You have accepted peoples advice openly and not harshly. You have the positive emotions necessary within you to drive out the negative emotions. I believe you are climbing a huge obstacle here but with your drive, I don’t have any doubt that you will definately conquer this. Probably with the same fervor you do your enemies. There is so much strength within you. It just needs to be redirected and I believe you can do this. I’ll pray for your continued positive progress. Walk with God.