Reverencing the altar

[THurifer2]

Hello,

On Holy Saturday upon entering my pew I genuflected towards the altar (instead of the empty tabernacle) upon doing this my priest was directly behind me on his way up to the altar to arrange some things before Mass…as he passed by he whispered to me “you don’t have to genuflect the Eucharist is not present”. I whispered back, “there is still an altar up there”.

I realize now that perhaps I should have simply bowed towards the altar instead of Genuflecting.

Is one Not to Genuflec when making an act of reverence.

Should I have simply bowed towards the altar.? or should I have not done anything?

 

[Joannm]

You genuflect to the presence of Jesus in the Tabernacle. You bow to the altar. We do not genuflect to the altar.

 

[Phemie]

Hello,

On Holy Saturday upon entering my pew I genuflected towards the altar (instead of the empty tabernacle) upon doing this my priest was directly behind me on his way up to the altar to arrange some things before Mass…as he passed by he whispered to me “you don’t have to genuflect the Eucharist is not present”. I whispered back, “there is still an altar up there”.

I realize now that perhaps I should have simply bowed towards the altar instead of Genuflecting.

Is one Not to Genuflec when making an act of reverence.

Should I have simply bowed towards the altar.? or should I have not done anything?

We were always taught only to genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament. The altar and the cross are reverenced with a bow.

 

[LilyM]

Normal practice is that you simply bow to the altar if the Eucharist is not present in the sanctuary. Mind you, the priest prostrate themselves before it on Good Friday.

I don’t think you need even bow towards an empty tabernacle If the Eucharist is being reserved on a side altar or in a side tabernacle, you’d presumably genuflect towards that one.

Having said which, I don’t think Jesus would be displeased with a person who, out of reverence for Him, genuflected towards the altar because His holy sacrifice is presented on it, or an empty tabernacle because it has held His presence in the Eucharist.

 

[jmjconder]

I agree with the posted responses…but this is where things get confusing.

On Good Friday the priest always genuflects three times to the cross. So I have often wondered why this is? And during the same service I see people in my parish show more reverence to the cross by genuflecting yet hardly show any reverence when they receive Holy Communion.

So what the priest said may have been correct - yet our own Church is a bit confusing in other ways of “reverencing” at least in the example of Good Friday.

 

[japhy]

GIRM 274-275 describe the occasions for genuflecting and bowing.

Genuflection “signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil” (GIRM 274).

A bow of the head (a simple bow) is made at the mention of the three Divine Persons (i.e. “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”, which means it’s made during the Sign of the Cross and the beginning of the “Glory Be”), at the mention of the names of Jesus, Mary, and the saint(s) of the day. (cf. GIRM 275a)

A bow of the body (a profound bow) is made to the altar. (cf. GIRM 275b) It is also made by those who are not kneeling during the Eucharistic Prayer, when the priest genuflects (right after the consecrations).

 

[MusicMan]

It gets even more dicey when the Tabernacle containing the Eucharist is housed in a separate chapel and not in the main church.

One does not need to genuflect to an empty Tabernacle. However, the Altar of Sacrifice is a consecrated item, consecrated for the greatest act of our Faith. When the Eucharist is not present, either because the Tabernacle is empty or because the Eucharist is reserved outside the main church, one makes a profound bow toward the Altar of Sacrifice.

Also, Japhy gives great information, however, the GIRM is not in force outside of the Mass. So, when one enters the church for Mass, the instructions that Japhy quoted are not in force.

 

[japhy]

Also, Japhy gives great information, however, the GIRM is not in force outside of the Mass. So, when one enters the church for Mass, the instructions that Japhy quoted are not in force.

So then why should anyone feel bound to genuflect or bow before Mass begins? In other words, what regulates our behavior outside of Mass?

 

[Joannm]

So then why should anyone feel bound to genuflect or bow before Mass begins? In other words, what regulates our behavior outside of Mass?

Because of the Presence of Jesus in the Tabernacle.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…Also, Japhy gives great information, however, the GIRM is not in force outside of the Mass. So, when one enters the church for Mass, the instructions that Japhy quoted are not in force.

I disagree. The GIRM gives instructions that do not apply to Mass, but should still be followed. The Good Friday ceremony is not a Mass. But the Roman Missal describes the ceremony in detail, and the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) provides further instructions which apply, as Japhy provided.

Another example, from the 2002 GIRM approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“45. … Even before the celebration itself, it is commendable that silence to be observed in the church, in the sacristy, in the vesting room, and in adjacent areas, so that all may dispose themselves to carry out the sacred action in a devout and fitting manner.”

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I agree with the posted responses…but this is where things get confusing.

On Good Friday the priest always genuflects three times to the cross. So I have often wondered why this is? And during the same service I see people in my parish show more reverence to the cross by genuflecting yet hardly show any reverence when they receive Holy Communion.

So what the priest said may have been correct - yet our own Church is a bit confusing in other ways of “reverencing” at least in the example of Good Friday.

The crucifix is a confusing example, but the reason for genuflecting to it is easy explained by good old theory on images (which I can back up from St. Thomas - given time to look it up - if challenged). The teaching on images is that it is proper to give an image the reverence due to the person depicted, since the honor passes from the image to the imaged. Thus we bow before icons, kiss them, etc., as means of honoring the saints portrayed. The proper reverence due to Christ, however, is genuflection, and thus it is entirely proper to genuflect to his image, as this honor passes to him. I believe Thomas might even go so far as to say that we can give the crucifix latria - the worship due to God alone - based on this principle, but since that pushes the envelope of our sensibilities I wouldn’t make a firm claim until having the chance to check it in the Summa.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Indeed: Summa Theologica III q. 25 a. 4 co.:

I answer that, As stated above (3), honor or reverence is due to a rational creature only; while to an insensible creature, no honor or reverence is due save by reason of a rational nature. And this in two ways. First, inasmuch as it represents a rational nature: secondly, inasmuch as it is united to it in any way whatsoever. In the first way men are wont to venerate the king’s image; in the second way, his robe. And both are venerated by men with the same veneration as they show to the king. If, therefore, we speak of the cross itself on which Christ was crucified, it is to be venerated by us in both ways–namely, in one way in so far as it represents to us the figure of Christ extended thereon; in the other way, from its contact with the limbs of Christ, and from its being saturated with His blood. Wherefore in each way it is worshiped with the same adoration as Christ, viz. the adoration of “latria.” And for this reason also we speak to the cross and pray to it, as to the Crucified Himself. But if we speak of the effigy of Christ’s cross in any other material whatever–for instance, in stone or wood, silver or gold–thus we venerate the cross merely as Christ’s image, which we worship with the adoration of “latria,” as stated above (3).

 

[MusicMan]

I disagree. The GIRM gives instructions that do not apply to Mass, but should still be followed. The Good Friday ceremony is not a Mass. But the Roman Missal describes the ceremony in detail, and the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) provides further instructions which apply, as Japhy provided.

Then why is the Good Friday Liturgy often called The Mass of the Pre-sanctified?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Then why is the Good Friday Liturgy often called The Mass of the Pre-sanctified?

For the same reason we speak of the “baptism of bells.” It’s a lot like a Mass, so they used to give it a name like the Mass. But when you get down to brass tacks a liturgy is only a Mass if the Eucharist is confected during it.

 

[AJV]

Indeed: Summa Theologica III q. 25 a. 4 co.:

I answer that, As stated above (3), honor or reverence is due to a rational creature only; while to an insensible creature, (snip)…thus we venerate the cross merely as Christ’s image, which we worship with the adoration of “latria,” as stated above (3).

But I recall reading that his teaching on relative latria was combatted later. I think I read that in one of Pohle’s books - I’ll check for the exact reference.

 

[MusicMan]

The GIRM does not govern The Liturgy of the Hours. The GIRM does not govern Word and Communion Services.

The GIRM may have specific instructions related to the preparation for Mass, even though they may occur outside of the actual Mass, however, the GIRM does not wield authority over people entering or exiting the Nave prior to or after Mass.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

But I recall reading that his teaching on relative latria was combatted later. I think I read that in one of Pohle’s books - I’ll check for the exact reference.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was combated - it does seem to push the envelope, does it not? I should clarify that in presenting the teaching of Thomas I had no intention of presenting that particular aspect as the teaching of the Church. I don’t know if the Church ever weighed in on that debate.

 

[japhy]

The GIRM may have specific instructions related to the preparation for Mass, even though they may occur outside of the actual Mass, however, the GIRM does not wield authority over people entering or exiting the Nave prior to or after Mass.

So let me repeat: why are people instructed to make genuflections to the tabernacle outside of Mass? Could it be that there are actually universal norms?

 

[jbebeau]

THurifer2: What a Cross present in the sanctuary?

I think the GIRM already posted addresses that.

Genuflection “signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil” (GIRM 274).

Otherwise a profound bow is appropriate.

MusicMan: Indeed the GIRM in places regulates the general conduct of the faithful in a church building both during and outside of Mass.

 

[Steve12045]

Thank you everyone for clearing this up for me, I came into the Church 21 years ago and no one ever explained about bowing and genuflecing. Now I know.