Reverent English funeral Mass

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laszlo

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I just attended one. Here are the differences from the regular new rite funeral Masses:
  • the vestment was black
  • the casket was covered by a black clothe instead of the flag, they changed it back to a flag after the casket was removed from the church
  • the (English) mass was as usual on that Church toward the tabernacle (priest turning to South his back toward the people) with Gregorian chant and Latin motets
  • the sermon was not eulogy, but the teaching of the Church about the death. Before the sermon the priest advised the people that only good standing Catholics are to be receiving communion (people obeyed)
Otherwise the full liturgy was the poof, who little is the difference between the new and old rites, if both is said reverently
 
Certainly sounds an improvement on the usual modern funeral, where was it, if you don’t mind me asking?
 
(priest turning to South his back toward the people)
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It’s called the “ad orientem” posture. I don’t consider any person in front of me in Church turning “his back” on or to me.
 
ProVobis said:
It’s called the “ad orientem” posture. I don’t consider any person in front of me in Church turning “his back” on or to me.
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Agreed. I like to refer to the priest “facing with us”, “facing in the same direction as us”, or “leading us in prayer”.

While saying his back is turned on us is is technically correct, it is certainly not the correct connotation to give. He is no more turning his back on you than the person in the pew in front of you is.
 
laszlo said:
I just attended one. Here are the differences from the regular new rite funeral Masses:
  • the vestment was black
  • the casket was covered by a black clothe instead of the flag, they changed it back to a flag after the casket was removed from the church
  • the (English) mass was as usual on that Church toward the tabernacle (priest turning to South his back toward the people) with Gregorian chant and Latin motets
  • the sermon was not eulogy, but the teaching of the Church about the death. Before the sermon the priest advised the people that only good standing Catholics are to be receiving communion (people obeyed)
Otherwise the full liturgy was the poof, who little is the difference between the new and old rites, if both is said reverently
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What flag?
 
catharina said:
What flag?
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If the deceased was a veteran or a member of the armed services it is customary to drape a US flag over the coffin, which is then given to the family after the funeral. The flag is usually provided by a veteran’s organization, and there is usually a short ceremony accompanying it at the cemetary.

My father-in-law was a WW II veteran and belonged to both the American Legion and the VFW. I don’t remember who provided the flag and did the ceremony, but it was very moving. The flag is a family heirloom now.
 
CB_Catholic said:
If the deceased was a veteran or a member of the armed services it is customary to drape a US flag over the coffin, which is then given to the family after the funeral. The flag is usually provided by a veteran’s organization, and there is usually a short ceremony accompanying it at the cemetary.

My father-in-law was a WW II veteran and belonged to both the American Legion and the VFW. I don’t remember who provided the flag and did the ceremony, but it was very moving. The flag is a family heirloom now.
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So: flag awarded in recognition of military service.
I’m totally familiar with that.
 
catharina said:
What flag?
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US flag. In any other funeral what I had seen recently, the casket was covered by a large US flag. May be all of them were veterans, but definitely not ones dying in the war.

In my mind there is a flag code, and the the flag shall fly if it is not stored, but maybe that was only in old times.
 
laszlo said:
US flag. In any other funeral what I had seen recently, the casket was covered by a large US flag. May be all of them were veterans, but definitely not ones dying in the war.

In my mind there is a flag code, and the the flag shall fly if it is not stored, but maybe that was only in old times.
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Most of the Catholic veteren’s funerals I have attended did not have the flag over the coffin during the Mass. It was draped after the Mass, when the pall was removed. I do not know if that is standard or not or the “rules” for it.
 
CB_Catholic said:
Most of the Catholic veteren’s funerals I have attended did not have the flag over the coffin during the Mass. It was draped after the Mass, when the pall was removed. I do not know if that is standard or not or the “rules” for it.
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Agree. I’ve never seen a flag “in use” inside
a Catholic church for the funeral Mass.
 
Covering the cascet with flag is disrespect aginst the flag itself.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dipped

The loosing of reverence toward the flag is the proof that the loosing of reverence in the mass is general symptom, not the consequence of the changed rubrics.
 
laszlo said:
Covering the cascet with flag is disrespect aginst the flag itself.
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That’s not quite correct. It is custom in the US to drape a flag over the casket of a deceased veteran or public official. A look at the obsequies for JFK, for example, will show this. However, the flag was traditionally removed and replaced with a funeral pall when entering the church. The pall was removed and flag replaced upon exit.
laszlo said:
The loosing of reverence toward the flag is the proof that the loosing of reverence in the mass is general symptom, not the consequence of the changed rubrics.
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:confused: Seems to me that one has little, if anything, to do with the other.
 
laszlo said:
Covering the cascet with flag is disrespect aginst the flag itself.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dipped

The loosing of reverence toward the flag is the proof that the loosing of reverence in the mass is general symptom, not the consequence of the changed rubrics.
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Clearly, you are confused about this.

"When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be placed with the stars at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or be allowed to touch the ground."

usa-the-republic.com/items%20of%20interest/flag%20code.html

I could flood you with sites from every branch of the US militray,
but the single note above should suffice - I hope.
Code: 
also from:  [veteransalliancehonorguard.com/taps](http://veteransalliancehonorguard.com/taps)

**In 1918, the U.S. Army began the practice of placing a flag over the coffin and, following the service, presenting the flag to the next of kin.   **
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Or if you stillthink you know better, write to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Maybe go through their DOD links:

[defense.gov/landing/comment.aspx](http://www.defense.gov/landing/comment.aspx)
 
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