Revisionist history and family life

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jazzbaby1

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My DH has had it with his mother. I posted a couple of weeks ago about the argument she provoked over disciplining our oldest daughter. He finally talked to her about it after she rather dramatically called and demanded to know if she “would be allowed to see my grandchildren for Christmas.” When he called her on it she tried to spin it but DH had heard most of the argument. This is not the first time in the course of our marriage that she’s rewritten history – or outright lied – about events. My question is, when is it enough? How much history does she get to revise to her liking? Sometimes it’s nonsense stuff – like insisting that she made sugared almonds and had my bridesmaids pass them out at our wedding reception (none of us remember this). Sometimes it’s stuff like saying that she’s being stalked by her ex-fiance (DH didn’t buy that for a second). A couple of months ago she told me that DH had failed three classes in high school and only made it through summer school because she was so strict with him; he actually failed ONE class and was at that time living with his dad and saw her once a month or so.

DH wants to just pretend she’s still living out west; we’ll be just leaving a lot if she pops by and we’ll always have other plans. Does anyone else have experience with this particular brand of crazymaking? How did or do you handle it?
 
In-laws can make things interesting, don’t you think?

In 15 years as a transit bus driver, I have become unafraid to correct other people’s bad behavior. There are people out there who just have to be told, politely but directly, that their actions are unacceptable and that there will be consequences if they continue disruptive behavior.

It sounds like MIL is using her bad memory to manipulate and control other family members.

My comment: “If you continue doing that, the police will meet the bus up ahead and take you off. Or, you can exit the bus now. What would you prefer to do?”

Your comment: “We love you very much and you are an important member of our family, but if these misunderstandings continue, we may not be able to see you very much anymore. What would you prefer to do?”

Your threat of not seeing her anymore may be equivalent to the police for a bus drunk.

Courage! Don’t be intimidated by the threat of hurt feelings.

Just a suggestion. Let us know what happens…

God bless you… - Rob
 
Thank you so much for your reply. This has been weighing heavily on me. My DH is unwilling to contact her at this time and prefers that I don’t, either, so I guess we’ll just wait and see. Her performance on Christmas Day (invited her for brunch but she showed up at 4PM with dinner and wanted us to take the dinner we were making for her ex and his fiancee out of the oven to warm up hers, etc.) really pushed my DH’s buttons. As they say, your mother knows how to push your buttons because she’s the one who installed them.
 
Maybe sit down and pray over the readings that we heard this morning in Mass. Really let the reading from Sirach sink in.

Many prayers.
 
My mother is much the same as you are describing. Maybe some space would be good. It doesn’t mean you don’t love her, but that kind of behavior can not be tolerated. It teaches the wrong lesson to your kids. Try some space and see if things cool off. That’s where we’re at with my mom now, after having tried everything else. 😦
 
You cannot deal in a reasonable way with nutty people…and DH has a nut for a mom…God bless her heart…my family is full of nuts too and I do what your DH does…let them talk all they want because it just does not matter, cut through the dramatics and then, when I am nutty (which I can be once in awhile) I have a chance to go “Oh NO I don’t want to be like them” and stop myself.

You sound like you have a really cool husband and that you are quite the tomato yourself…whatever that means, but I think it is better than being a nut…so just keep her in your prayers and try to be kind to her…and write the things down because someday they may make a great book…lololol…

Oh, and tell your DH that it is quite obvious that he really did flunk all those classes (probably FIVE OR SIX) and isn’t he lucky his Mom was so strict with him when he didn’t live with her…think how strict she would have been if he had been in her house???
 
kage_ar said:
Maybe sit down and pray over the readings that we heard this morning in Mass. Really let the reading from Sirach sink in.

Many prayers.
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That’s my struggle. Her mind isn’t failing, though; she’s a liar. It’s not a matter of her not remembering things correctly. Let me give you another example. When we were married we had a dry reception (I was not raised Catholic) and everyone was okay with that concept except for my MIL. Our reception facility was in a local county park and we signed a contract stating that we would not serve alcohol and that if alcohol was found we could be subject to 6 months in jail and/or a $3000 fine. She didn’t care. Our limo passed right behind her as she was mixing drinks out of the trunk of her car. I saw her; guests saw her. It was a miracle that the park rangers who were patrolling didn’t see her. The entire wedding party tried to get her to stop. She told my stepmother that she knew about the contract we signed but no one was going to tell her what to do. She loudly made snide remarks about my family’s lack of hospitality that I heard. Finally my sister, who was my Maid of Honor, got my DH to stop her. When he went to talk to her she just had no idea why he was blaming her, it wasn’t her it was her cousin’s nephew, she didn’t know why my family was blaming her and stirring up trouble on what should be a special day. Get the picture? She’s a schemer, a manipulator and a liar. I read the readings from Sirach and I know that we’re supposed to honor our parents, but how does that line up with admonitions elsewhere to confront the person who has harmed you and if they’re unrepentant have nothing more to do with them?
 
jazzbaby1 said:
DH wants to just pretend she’s still living out west; we’ll be just leaving a lot if she pops by and we’ll always have other plans. Does anyone else have experience with this particular brand of crazymaking? How did or do you handle it?
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You may not exclude grandma from family life. She has the moral right to see the children as much as she wants, except when you genuinely are taking them somewhere it is impractical for her to go, this should never be a pretext. She doesn’t just get what you consider to be “reasonable access”.

I’ll give you a line. “If you’re so clever, then you look after them for a while. I’m going to Julie’s.” Then storm out and do. Come back midnight after a girly night out, drunk.

The kids will be fine, and it’s hard work for her. So she’ll soon learn to bite her tongue.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
I’ll give you a line. “If you’re so clever, then you look after them for a while. I’m going to Julie’s.” Then storm out and do. Come back midnight after a girly night out, drunk.
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I don’t know that I would leave my kids alone with a proven liar, I would want to hear anything she tells them. I have a sister who doesn’t lie, but feels like it is her place to tell my kids any horrible stories from our family history.
Have you ever tried to calmly correct her with some facts during one of her stories? Like "Actually mom, he failed one course and was living with his father at the time, it was Geometry in 1984 when he was a sophmore (or whatever). If she is lying for attention, the truth might slow her down. If she is lying because she is delusional then there isn’t anything you can do except limit time spent with her, pretend everything is normal or suggest a therapist.
 
Lovemyfaith said:
I don’t know that I would leave my kids alone with a proven liar,
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This is garbage. Children are psychologically equipped to have both parents and grandparents, and to cope with disputes between them. Mummy is by far the more important figure.

Yes, we are all fallible people who to some extent damage the children in our care. But you also damage children by excluding them from contact with relatives. Beyond the level of grandma dealing in drugs, or something like that, if she is physically capable of looking after the children she is also a morally fit person to do so.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
You may not exclude grandma from family life. She has the moral right to see the children as much as she wants, except when you genuinely are taking them somewhere it is impractical for her to go, this should never be a pretext. She doesn’t just get what you consider to be “reasonable access”.

I’ll give you a line. “If you’re so clever, then you look after them for a while. I’m going to Julie’s.” Then storm out and do. Come back midnight after a girly night out, drunk.

The kids will be fine, and it’s hard work for her. So she’ll soon learn to bite her tongue.
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This has to be the most illogical post I have ever read on this forum. First of all, no, she does NOT have a ‘right’ to see those children, she has the privilege of seeing them. Grandparents have absolutely no legal rights, and these situations are why. She definitely does not have any right to see them ‘was much as she wants’! That is just crazy! She is NOT the childrens’ parent! Never has been and never will be! I’ve never heard anything so preposterous!

Second, why on earth would the OP want to leave her children alone with this woman at all? She has proved over and over by her actions to be irresponsible, a liar, and immoral. Is that the kind of person that should be influencing children?

Third, NO ONE should ever purposely get drunk, that is a sin!

Malcolm you need to think before you hit submit reply next time. The whole reason the OP was posting is because there is already a bad relationship, and provoking her while exposing the children to her unacceptable behavior is exactly what the OP wants to avoid!
 
Jazzbaby1… I swear your DH and I could almost be brother and sister! You have described my mom to a tee. Even down to her swearing she saw me drinking at my HS graduation party when I quit drinking 3 yrs earlier…

I have been living with this for a very long time, and while it is new to you (relatively) your DH has been living with it for a long time too. My advice is to pick your battles. My other advice is to find an advocate in DH’s family you can talk to. My sister, brother and I verify everything mom tells us about each other… and we call when mom talks about them so they know what is coming at them next.

Some of the lies don’t make any sense until you see how they are used in context. Mom likes the poor pity me routine in my family… so she picks little fights so she can tell others how cruel we are to her… OMG she won’t let me see my own grandchildren!!! That kind of stuff. My one sister has decided that when she calls she has to put mom on speakerphone because if mom knows she is on speaker, she could get caught in a lie… Another thing we have done is not let mom alone with our kids because she pumps them for information that we don’t necessarily want to share with her.

I am sure about now you are wondering if we are indeed related…

In my family, I try to pick my battles but sometimes mom just picks and picks until she gets a reaction. This is typical too… and you know what? I am human and sometimes I react… oh well… the good thing is that i have figured out a few things too… like that she has to be talking to me to get any dirt on me or my family… so her tantrums don’t last too long… She just pretends the argument didn’t happen and calls.

Apparently this behavior was passed on to a couple of my siblings as well … imagine that… I have a mom, sister and brother all like this :bigyikes: That just leaves one sister and one brother, and me that are “normal”…so we have had to ban together to deal with it. Some of the things that help are:

  1. *]if you correspond by email… save them all! When they rewrite history, you will have documented proof of the original conversation.
    *]Get a speakerphone and when MIL calls, call DH into the room to witness. If he isn’t available, kids will do too… if they are old enough.
    *]Change the subject… state your position then change the subject, “No, I will discuss how I discipline my dd since it is my choice, how about this weather?” Seriously!!!
    *]Pick your battles… “OK MIL, I don’t remember the almonds but I am sure you must have…”
    *]Don’t be afraid to impose rules for her around your kids… “No, today wouldn’t be a good time to take dd out, what about next week when DH can join you?” or “We would love to celebrate dd’s b-day with you… why don’t we ALL go out together?”
    And finally… look at this website for more suggestions:
    geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm
 
Teakafrog said:
Second, why on earth would the OP want to leave her children alone with this woman at all? She has proved over and over by her actions to be irresponsible, a liar, and immoral. Is that the kind of person that should be influencing children?
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In a normal family you can drop the kids off at gran’s whilst you go to amuse yourself. Perfectly safely and appropriately.

And the OP sounds very much like she is in a normal family setting. She just doesn’t realise it.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
In a normal family you can drop the kids off at gran’s whilst you go to amuse yourself. Perfectly safely and appropriately.

And the OP sounds very much like she is in a normal family setting. She just doesn’t realise it.
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You are correct, IN A NORMAL FAMILY. Apparently you have absolutely no experience with a family member who is manipulative to this degree. You DO NOT know what it’s like. Although MIL may put on a pretty face to outsiders to ‘appear’ normal, like my mom does, there is no hint of a rational thought process behind any family interactions. So if you have never experienced it, you are in no position to give anything buy bad advice, which you have done copiously. Maybe you should stay on threads where you have some experience with the subject.
 
It sounds like your husband’s mom (to OP) is insecure for some reason. I have known liars in my life, as we all have, and people who spin truth, usually lie because they are insecure. It is hard to deal with someone who you have to get your battle gear on with nearly every time you interact with that person…but, I like the reply of Rob in Oregon. It is sincere, yet to the point. You shouldn’t have to dodge your MIL because she is difficult to deal with…I think that by sharing with her your thoughts, it might help. My MIL does not behave remotely like this, and my parents died when I was a child, so I don’t have much experience…although, my sister a long time ago, caused a lot of drama for my husband and me. Thankfully, we are all past that, and I think praying for her helped me to accept her, flaws and all, just like God accepts me, flaws and all. It took a lot of time to get there, though! lol

I pray that your MIL realizes her flaws, and tries to make life a bit easier on herself, and everyone. She sounds like she is hurting inside, not sure why, but her actions (defiantly mixing drinks on your wedding day) are that of an unhappy person.😦 But, you can’t allow someone to continuously cause disharmony in your family, even if it is your dh’s mom. I wish you good luck with this situation, and will hold your situation in my prayers. It will hopefully get better.🙂
 
jazzbaby, I feel for you, and actually know of what you speak. I have been a victim of family revisionist history. If I did all the things I am supposed to have done, and neglected all the things I allegedly did not do, I would not be here today. The one that really strikes as odd is being two places at once doing the exact opposite of what I’ve done.

Your husband’s idea to pretend she lives in out west is not that far-fetched, and his idea to “just be leaving” is also inspired. It’s his mother. If he will really and truly deal with her that way, you’ve got a gem of a husband. If not, you can’t let this woman drive you crazy.

I will once again suggest the book God Help Me! These People Are Driving Me Nuts! by Greg Popcak. It wil explain in detail why you are not obligated to be abused or put up with your MIL’s behavior, from a Catholic as well as clinical perspective.

Short course: You and your husband are responsible to pray for your MIL. If she is without a place to live, food or clothes, you and your husband have a moral obligation to assist her in getting these things. This does **not **mean your house, your clothes, things more expensive than anything you have, gourmet goodies while you dine on canned cat food, or trips here-there-and-yonder while you stay home. She is never allowed to hurt your children emotionally or physically.

You do not have to listen to her revisionist history. If you are placed in a situation where she starts, you have a lot of good advice here. But, it’s my opinion that your DH has the best solutions.
 
Thank you all for your replies, you’ve all given me a lot to think about. Thank you for the prayers and support.

Malcom, I know that you mean well but what my MIL does is NOT normal by any stretch of the imagination. We’re not talking about telling innocent tall tales to tease another family member; we’re talking about she’s constructed a completely separate reality in which she is always the victim and to be pitied, no matter what she does.

My DH is VERY cool about his mom because he’s dealt with her longer. I talked him into giving her another chance a few years ago and she’s frittered it away by trying to protray herself as misunderstood abused mother of the year. She’s not. She’s gone so far as to threaten violence against people she thinks are her rivals and to try to intimidate members of my family about ridiculous things (e.g., she had a HUGE problem with my stepmother’s being referred to as “Grandma T” because she felt that she was the only grandmother. While she may be the only biologically related grandma living my stepmother has been in my life since I was four and it’s MY decision, not MIL’s, what my kids call her). What whatevergirl said is dead on: she’s a deeply unhappy and insecure person. It’s not my responsibility or my DH’s to unmess up her life for her.
 
jazzbaby1 said:
My DH has had it with his mother. I posted a couple of weeks ago about the argument she provoked over disciplining our oldest daughter. He finally talked to her about it after she rather dramatically called and demanded to know if she “would be allowed to see my grandchildren for Christmas.” When he called her on it she tried to spin it but DH had heard most of the argument. This is not the first time in the course of our marriage that she’s rewritten history – or outright lied – about events. My question is, when is it enough? How much history does she get to revise to her liking? Sometimes it’s nonsense stuff – like insisting that she made sugared almonds and had my bridesmaids pass them out at our wedding reception (none of us remember this). Sometimes it’s stuff like saying that she’s being stalked by her ex-fiance (DH didn’t buy that for a second). A couple of months ago she told me that DH had failed three classes in high school and only made it through summer school because she was so strict with him; he actually failed ONE class and was at that time living with his dad and saw her once a month or so.

DH wants to just pretend she’s still living out west; we’ll be just leaving a lot if she pops by and we’ll always have other plans. Does anyone else have experience with this particular brand of crazymaking? How did or do you handle it?
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Oh-oh, this sounds like someone i know…

One of my friends has mom just like urs. she can’t do anything right by her and she constantly starts a fight with everyone that gets anywhere near her.

Here’s the highlights of stuff my friend’s mom has said about her:
  1. my friend’s a slut who’s slept with every man going:eek: (at the time my friend lived at home and has never been with a guy!!)
  2. My friend shouldn’t go to uni - she’s so stupid she’s only good for cleaning and marriage. Or prostitution.
  3. My friend never comes to visit her mom (not true - she comes every week and phones every day)
  4. My friend brings men into the house and steals stuff from her mom (actually my friend never brings anyone home because of mom’s behaviour, and acutally gives money to mom on a regular basis).
I have met mom and she is exactly as bad as my friend says. She accused me of turning her daughter against her, of pimping her daughter and being her daughter’s dodgy boyfriends (we’re just friends who met at uni). What’s more, she’s happy to tell these lies to anyone u’d listen to her - which causes a lot of problems for my friend.

The mom’s behaviour comes from insecurity and the need for attention and drama in her life. That’s why she starts fights and lies all the time. Usually to lies are done to make people feel sorry for her but this is done at the expense of her own daughter’s happiness and reputation. For this reason i don’t agree with the OP’s suggestion that u should allow your MIL free access to ur children.

A person who behaves like this has psychological problems and is likely to cause harm to anyone who gets near her. In ur case it seems to be emotional harm as ur MIL’s upsets everyone and creates difficulties. In my friends case it went a lot further to the point that my friend was actually physically harmed by the actions of her mom.

I think u should reduce visits to ur MIL and reduce her visits to u and ur children. All visits should be in the family home with no one else save ur DL and u and perhaps ur children - this is to avoid ur MIL’s lies and bad behaviour affecting more people. Ur MIL should only see ur children while supervised by u or ur husband. Should MIL become difficult, take the children away and ask MIL to leave. This is because her fighting and lies is harmful to the children - this is a form of emotional abuse.

Before allowing further visits reiterate to her that her behaviour is unacceptable and should she continue, she will not be allowed to see the children until they are grown up and know better how to deal with her.

Stick to ur guns and refuse to let her see ur children until she behaves herself. Expect her to try emotional blackmail to get u to give in to her demands. Don’t let this happen or u can expect to put up with her for the rest of ur life. Otherwise u and ur husband should go and visit her from time to time (w/o the kids) to make sure she’s ok. It 's the least u can do for her.
 
Thank you for your reply. Thank you for truly getting it, though it’s sad that you do. I’ll keep your friend and her situation in my prayers.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
You may not exclude grandma from family life. She has the moral right to see the children as much as she wants.
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That is your opinion -which I strongly disagree with. It is up to the parents to discern who their children will and will not interact with, based on whether the interaction is good for them or not.
My mother has “episodes” of craziness. When she’s in one of her episodes my daughter does not see her. I know how painful dealing with those episodes were/are. As a child it was out of my control, but as an adult I will most definitely protect my child from such craziness.
 
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