Revisiting John 10:28

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*John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.*We are familiar with this verse being used to “prove” assurance of salvation (which consequently eliminates need to avoid sin). The Catholic understands that God will not let go, but we of our free will can. What do you think? Does this passage in Revelation, also written by John, confirm/support the Catholic position?*Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.*Doesn’t this suggest what John 10 is saying? That someone else can snatch you away unless YOU hold on yourself. If John 10 meant salvation was absolutely assured, then Revelation 3 would not tell us to hold on. No?
 
Did you want to limit this thread to a comparison of the two verses? Because, of course, there are other verses that can be used to argue against “once saved always saved.”
 
MarcoPolo said:
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.We are familiar with this verse being used to “prove” assurance of salvation (which consequently eliminates need to avoid sin). The Catholic understands that God will not let go, but we of our free will can. What do you think? Does this passage in Revelation, also written by John, confirm/support the Catholic position?Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.Doesn’t this suggest what John 10 is saying? That someone else can snatch you away unless YOU hold on yourself. If John 10 meant salvation was absolutely assured, then Revelation 3 would not tell us to hold on. No?
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Who is it that give them eternal life? God, of course, Is there any human being that can undo what God has done? think about it!
 
InternetWoman said:
Did you want to limit this thread to a comparison of the two verses? Because, of course, there are other verses that can be used to argue against “once saved always saved.”
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Thanks, yes, I’d prefer to stick to the 2 verses if possible. I know there is a plentitude of verses that do not espouse absolute security of salvation while still in this earthly life. I just think the above two verses are very closely related. :o
 
p.s. Where I said “assurance of salvation” above I should have said “security of salvation.” The concepts are related, but I am more addressing the idea that when a person becomes an authentic Christian, he can never turn away.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Ok, relate your comment to the verses in question.
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Is the crown refering to you salvation or to a reward. I believe that the Bible refers to the rewards we recieve when we enter heaven as crowns.
 
theoldman said:
Is the crown refering to you salvation or to a reward. I believe that the Bible refers to the rewards we recieve when we enter heaven as crowns.
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Once you enter heaven you of course are there permanently. I’m talking about the “crown” you have to “hold on to” which is being in Christ while still on earth.
 
MarcoPolo said:
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.We are familiar with this verse being used to “prove” assurance of salvation (which consequently eliminates need to avoid sin). The Catholic understands that God will not let go, but we of our free will can. What do you think?
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I agree with you Marco.
I think John 10:28 can stand on its own just as it’s stated. Once we have received eternal life (eg. in Baptism), no one can snatch us out of God’s hand – not Satan/demons and not other people. I think the word “snatch” incorporates the meaning that it is an act carried out by someone other than oneself. And also perhaps, the sense that it is without one’s consent.
The “never perishing” is tied to being in Our Lord’s hand.
Does this passage in Revelation, also written by John, confirm/support the Catholic position?Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.Doesn’t this suggest what John 10 is saying? That someone else can snatch you away unless YOU hold on yourself. If John 10 meant salvation was absolutely assured, then Revelation 3 would not tell us to hold on. No?
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I would disagree with the phrase that “someone else can snatch you away”. Someone else can tempt us to let go – not to hold on – but they cannot do the separating.

I do think Rev 3:11 confirms the Catholic position. Thanks for connecting the two verses.
 
Thanks, Nita. Yes, I agree…another person cannot actually commit the snatching in the sense that the first person has no control. I meant it in the way you clarified in your last part. :o
 
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