Revival of the Latin mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter _anna
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

_anna

Guest
French radio today talked of a revival of the Latin mass. Youpee!
The British press has yet to say anything. Being only an ordinary Catholic (or perhaps just a European one)I can’t understand what all the fuss is about! Latin masses have always existed,though rather sparingly.In Russia you can attend Russo-Latin masses, i.e part of the mass is in Russian and part in Latin.And the priest still faces the congregation and one receives the host on the tongue (in the hand is considered disrespectful) and it is sometimes dipped in the holy wine. I really love these masses. I feel I have been to church, but then I am of the generation that grew up with the Latin mass.Whether the mass be in Latin or in one’s own language I fail to see the problem:shrug: I just happen to enjoy the Latin mass. I wonder if it bothers God what language he hears the mass in?
 
I have no idea. I can only tell you that from my perspective, probably not. God hears us praying in many different languages everyday, so I don’t see why He would be “bothered” by any language. I don’t think He has a preference for any language.If it is in the Code of Canon Law that He prefers Latin, I’d like to see it. I think one poster said somewhere that Latin is the sacred language? Where they got that from I have no idea, but I’d like to know myself. Perhaps someone who write that will see this post and hopefully tell us where they got that information from?

Yes, the Latin Mass is the Mass of the Ages, and so that being the case, perhaps that is why Latin is considered a sacred language? Jesus Himself didn’t speak Latin, the Romans did. I just don’t know my history well enough to be absolutely certain as to what the church says about Latin, past or present. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can shed some light on it? perhaps they can tell us the Chruch’s official stance on the use of Latin?
 
_anna said:
French radio today talked of a revival of the Latin mass. Youpee!
The British press has yet to say anything. Being only an ordinary Catholic (or perhaps just a European one)I can’t understand what all the fuss is about! Latin masses have always existed,though rather sparingly.In Russia you can attend Russo-Latin masses, i.e part of the mass is in Russian and part in Latin.And the priest still faces the congregation and one receives the host on the tongue (in the hand is considered disrespectful) and it is sometimes dipped in the holy wine. I really love these masses. I feel I have been to church, but then I am of the generation that grew up with the Latin mass.Whether the mass be in Latin or in one’s own language I fail to see the problem:shrug: I just happen to enjoy the Latin mass. I wonder if it bothers God what language he hears the mass in?
Click to expand...
Жanna, I think many on the forum would consider you lucky for attending the Masses you do.👍

However, the “Latin Mass” (which is a misnomer as you have pointed out since one can celebrate the ‘current’ Mass in Latin) refers to an older form of the Mass that existed until 1969/70 and can be said only in Latin. This si separate from the Mass after 1970 which can be said in Latin or the vernacular

You can read it here
 
TraditionalCath said:
I have no idea. I can only tell you that from my perspective, probably not. God hears us praying in many different languages everyday, so I don’t see why He would be “bothered” by any language. I don’t think He has a preference for any language.If it is in the Code of Canon Law that He prefers Latin, I’d like to see it. I think one poster said somewhere that Latin is the sacred language? Where they got that from I have no idea, but I’d like to know myself. Perhaps someone who write that will see this post and hopefully tell us where they got that information from?

Yes, the Latin Mass is the Mass of the Ages, and so that being the case, perhaps that is why Latin is considered a sacred language? Jesus Himself didn’t speak Latin, the Romans did. I just don’t know my history well enough to be absolutely certain as to what the church says about Latin, past or present. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can shed some light on it? perhaps they can tell us the Chruch’s official stance on the use of Latin?
Click to expand...
The only way I can see the preference of the use of latin is that many holy fathers have encouraged its use to show our unity in the Latin rite, but nothing that I know of to show that it has some sort of supernatural primacy over other languages. As a tool for that purpose, (BTW, this is only pure speculation on my part, I haven’t looked into this at all, please don’t flame me!) I guess a case could be made that the Latin language is a kind of sacramental, as other sacramentals are tools. But I haven’t the foggiest as to what, exactly, makes a sacramental and what does not. Plus a language is not tangible, so I really don’t know.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the TLM and I love Latin and I feel its use is good for the Church.
 
Unitas said:
The only way I can see the preference of the use of latin is that many holy fathers have encouraged its use to show our unity in the Latin rite, but nothing that I know of to show that it has some sort of supernatural primacy over other languages. As a tool for that purpose, (BTW, this is only pure speculation on my part, I haven’t looked into this at all, please don’t flame me!) I guess a case could be made that the Latin language is a kind of sacramental, as other sacramentals are tools. But I haven’t the foggiest as to what, exactly, makes a sacramental and what does not. Plus a language is not tangible, so I really don’t know.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the TLM and I love Latin and I feel its use is good for the Church.
Click to expand...
iam not going to flame you:D i appreciate your response.👍
 
The only way I can see the preference of the use of latin is that many holy fathers have encouraged its use to show our unity in the Latin rite,
This is particularly true when one travels.If you go to mass in a foreign country, although you know what is going on, you can’t participate and that is frustrating.
I wouldn’t consider Latin a sacred language. I learnt it at school and as late as 1968 you needed Latin to study law in Britain.It was the sign of a “good education” ! but it has caused a rift in France. Oh and another thing I like, is the Gregarian chant of the monks. No doubt that too, is due to my convent education!
 
One other point: Latin is a “dead” language. English and other languages (even French despite its attempts to preserve ‘purity’) are mutable and changeable.

Let’s take the word ‘gay’. For several centuries or so, this word in English meant jolly, happy, and convivial. Now it means something else.

Therefore, reading a novel or any sort of written work which contained the word ‘gay’ in 1400, 1600, 1800, even 1900, one understood the word ‘gay’ very differently from one reading a work written in, oh, 1980 or 2007.

As we know, various ‘translations’ and ‘inclusions’ exist in English language Masses, precisely because in 21st century U.S.A. and other countries, words like “man” (English) are considered discriminatory and exclusive. All the ‘vir’ references which for centuries had been translated as ‘man’ and correctly UNDERSTOOD to refer to ‘all humanity’ now MUST be changed to such ‘inclusives’ as humanity, human kind, brothers and sisters, people, as the translator so chooses.

Taking it to the logical (if one can use that word) conclusion, it is entirely possible that some 500 years from now, the English translations of the Bible and Liturgy are going to express at the very LEAST clumsy and SPECULATIVE ideas of what the ‘sense’ of the earliest (mostly Latin) translations MEANT, and in some cases totally DIFFERENT and perhaps even heretical translations. (IOW, the ‘sin of Sodom and Gomorrah will be INHOSPITALITY’ )

So there is a use in having the Latin language, if only to have a fixed language reference!
 
With the exception of heaven, this is the only place I wish to be. Here we are all the same: Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Russians. I am the only priest. When I celebrate the liturgy, they pray for all, each one in his own language. Doesn’t God understand all languages?

–Blessed Father Emilian Kowcz writing from the concentration camp
 
That is a nice post, Genesis and God bless that holy priest. That being said, in the 1940s the liturgy was in Latin. The only reason that people would have prayed in ‘other languages’ would have been that they were not Catholic (like the Jewish people), or were perhaps Orthodox or Protestant. And he does not mention whether their prayer was spoken or SILENT, either.

God certainly understands abnormal or special situations. But the norm for Catholics of that time was a Latin liturgy. The norm for today is STILL that Latin liturgy but a second norm is a vernacular liturgy. God understands that when I go to the Polish Mass, I follow along as best I can in English because ‘the Mass is the Mass’. So I don’t think He would have any problem with us following at a Latin Mass as best we can (in English, Spanish, Vietnamese, etc.) silently and (to the best of our ability) in the Latin verbally.
 
_anna said:
The only way I can see the preference of the use of latin is that many holy fathers have encouraged its use to show our unity in the Latin rite,
This is particularly true when one travels.If you go to mass in a foreign country, although you know what is going on, you can’t participate and that is frustrating.
I wouldn’t consider Latin a sacred language. I learnt it at school and as late as 1968 you needed Latin to study law in Britain.It was the sign of a “good education” ! but it has caused a rift in France. Oh and another thing I like, is the Gregarian chant of the monks. No doubt that too, is due to my convent education!
Click to expand...
Because Latin is the official language of the Church, its use is sacred.
 
Doesn’t God understand all languages?
Click to expand...
He understands the heart and mind behind whatever you say however you say it or whatever you don’t say.

But what’s so difficult about memorizing a few Latin prayers which everyone in the Catholic Church will know soon? 🙂
 
I would like to see a revival of the Latin Mass at the local parish level. I am in a diocese that is rapidly changing from English to Spanish, because we are close to the Mexican border. And our priests are always saying they want to have the people pray together and be part of ONE parish, but there are Masses in every language (e.g, English, Spanish, Vietnamese). If it were in Latin, we would all be able to attend every Mass and truly be united, I think. And we would be one community as opposed to three in one parish.
 
CarmelG said:
I would like to see a revival of the Latin Mass at the local parish level. I am in a diocese that is rapidly changing from English to Spanish, because we are close to the Mexican border. And our priests are always saying they want to have the people pray together and be part of ONE parish, but there are Masses in every language (e.g, English, Spanish, Vietnamese). If it were in Latin, we would all be able to attend every Mass and truly be united, I think. And we would be one community as opposed to three in one parish.
Click to expand...
The sermon would still have be given in one of those three vernacular languages.
 
The only reason that people would have prayed in ‘other languages’ would have been that they were not Catholic (like the Jewish people), or were perhaps Orthodox or Protestant.
Click to expand...
I think the priest meant that when they pray (not respond in the Mass, but pray), their prayers are in their own languages. I can pray the rosary in Latin, but I don’t know how to say things like “God help me to do so and so” in Latin. So when those people prayed for rescue and an end to war, each one was using his native language. He was probably referring to when they pray after Communion, their prayers were silent, but he knew they were in their native tongues.

No language bothers God. What matters is what we say, not how we say it. Think of when the Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus’ disciples and they began speaking in tongues and each man heard his own language. They didn’t all hear one language that they could all understand. They each heard their own language!

Around the world, each place celebrates a uniquely beautiful Mass, but we’re all performing the same glorious celebration!

❤️
 
The sermon would still have be given in one of those three vernacular languages.
Click to expand...
No rules against all three in one sermon. Church bulletins too.
 
Around the world, each place celebrates a uniquely beautiful Mass, but we’re all performing the same glorious celebration!
Click to expand...
Certainly goes without saying at the Traditional Latin Mass. 😉
 
That’s true. But that would be a really long Mass if the sermon was a 3 languages.😛
Click to expand...
Papal Masses have more than this, don’t they? 😉

I have to admit, though, that it would take a master sermonist to be able to give one at all in three languages, let alone try to make it short.
 
I’m wanting to attend the Latin Mass again. I haven’t been for several years and want to buy a new Missal - does anyone have any suggestions where I can get one from?
 
traditiobob said:
I’m wanting to attend the Latin Mass again. I haven’t been for several years and want to buy a new Missal - does anyone have any suggestions where I can get one from?
Click to expand...
The best 1962 missal available is from Angelus Press.

angeluspress.org/index.php?act=warehouse&info=8146

This missal is also available from Leaflet Missal: leafletonline.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5019&zenid=262e336b5ff415035ac98df78a33ec22

This particular missal is the finest 1962 missal you will find.

Baronius Press also has a good missal, but they are currently out of stock due to high demand.

You can also find missals on ebay. Any 1962 or earlier missal will do just fine. I was actually on a missal-collecting rampage a couple years back and found many great old missals on ebay. I have a couple great St. Joseph’s, plus a bunch of smaller pocket-size missals. These are the true gems. They are small prayer books with the weekly propers as well as the Ordinary of Mass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top