Revolvers for Everyone!

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This is a premise that I heard and I thought worthy of debate. I tend to lean against it because it sounds absurd.

The premise is that we would have a much safer country and a much more polite society if everyone was required to wear a loaded sidearm at all times.
🙂
What country has the lowest crime rate? Switzerland! Every adult citizen owns a firearm. So far no bloodbath.
 
By the way, why did you ask for me list every point I could come up with if you intended to ignore all of them but one?
I asked you to post them because you said you knew of many reasons, so I wanted to read them; don’t mention it if you don’t want to post them. I only responded to one b/c I am too tired and too busy with work to begin responding to everyone; I picked the one that popped into my head first. I would say holding vast parts of a nation for many years qualifies as conquering. Just b/c the Roman Army couldn’t hold on to all of their territory in the end doesn’t mean none of those areas weren’t conquered by them at one point.
 
I asked you to post them because you said you knew of many reasons, so I wanted to read them; don’t mention it if you don’t want to post them. I only responded to one b/c I am too tired and too busy with work to begin responding to everyone; I picked the one that popped into my head first. I would say holding vast parts of a nation for many years qualifies as conquering. Just b/c the Roman Army couldn’t hold on to all of their territory in the end doesn’t mean none of those areas weren’t conquered by them at one point.
The Romans held territory for centuries; people lived and died without knowing anything other than Roman rule! The Japanese held territory in China for less than ten years, and very little of it was ever all that secure. They didn’t even take half of the country; would a country that made its way only to the Rocky Mountains be considered to have conquered the United States?
 
The Romans held territory for centuries; people lived and died without knowing anything other than Roman rule! The Japanese held territory in China for less than ten years, and very little of it was ever all that secure. They didn’t even take half of the country; would a country that made its way only to the Rocky Mountains be considered to have conquered the United States?
No, b/c America is known by its East and West Coasts with governmental power being on the East coast. Most of China’s main cities and governmental power was located along its only coast, which the Japanese had a firm grip on.
 
The FBI recently issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008.

If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low.

Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI later this year.

According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high.

For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
 
The FBI recently issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008.

If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low.

Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI later this year.

According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high.

For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
Actually most of that ammo continually sold out much of 2009 along with other calibers associated with military weapons such as 30 carbine and 45 ACP. (Two of my favorites.)
 
The FBI recently issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008.

If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low.

Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI later this year.

According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high.

For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
I had not seen these figures, thanks for posting. I think that the number of people owning firearms has risen by more than 2%, just based upon what I see at the range.
 
QUOTE=gamewell45;6158438]You could arm the entire populace, but its just window dressing unless they know what they are doing. An untrained person with a pistol, revolver or rifle is a hazard to himself and anyone around him. If the Chinese or Russians invaded our country they’d most likely die from laughing at the feeble attempts of most of our citizens trying to use a firearm without killing themselves, not from the amazing firepower of our citizens.

Half the people in this country can’t use a can opener properly and you expect them to challenge a professionally trained army with our mighty handguns or shotguns?? Stop kidding yourself.

The half that can’t use a can opener are the ones that don’t own firearms. They chose to rely on everyone else to protect them, including 9-11 (State sponsored dial-a-prayer). Every fall, 45 millions in flyover country head to the hills to track, shoot and kill various species of game. Most use weapons far more powerful that the typical soldier carries. They are trained in camo, tracking and are excellent shots.

I don’t choose to outsource my familys security. God gave me lives to protect, and I take that very seriously. As a female, I would certainly use my gun to defend myself, because carrying a cop it to heavy!
 
The half that can’t use a can opener are the ones that don’t own firearms. They chose to rely on everyone else to protect them, including 9-11 (State sponsored dial-a-prayer). Every fall, 45 millions in flyover country head to the hills to track, shoot and kill various species of game. Most use weapons far more powerful that the typical soldier carries. They are trained in camo, tracking and are excellent shots.

I don’t choose to outsource my familys security. God gave me lives to protect, and I take that very seriously. As a female, I would certainly use my gun to defend myself, because carrying a cop it to heavy!
 
+1. Our Catholic faith OFFICIALLY teaches that we have not only a RIGHT but also a DUTY (the Church actually calls it a GRAVE duty) to protect ourselves and our loved ones that means that while we can certainly depend on help from others (calling ‘911’), that should not be our main and only means of defense. Last year (actually two years ago because last year’s number are not available) over 800,000 calls to ‘911’ took an hour or more for help to arrive.
 
Sir Knight, I want to live in a society where a frail 98 pound grandma can pull out a tazar and shock the liver out of a 350 pound galoot with foul breath and have him contained in a cell until he learns how to become a gentleman. Or splatter him with a glue ball of super glue that makes him stick to the floor until he is cuffed. Or a pins him with a tranquillizer that anaesthetizes the Honky Tonk man until he wakes up in a jail cell and realizes that grandma put him there. Neither die, neither suffer guilt and both gain materially and spiritually from the new science of protection and rehabilitation.
Your comments are irrational.
 
This is a premise that I heard and I thought worthy of debate. I tend to lean against it because it sounds absurd.

The premise is that we would have a much safer country and a much more polite society if everyone was required to wear a loaded sidearm at all times.

One side seems to think people are capable of rational behavior and this would help us control ourselves. It would eliminate a number of crimes, particularly those in which a weapon is used as a means of exerting power over others.

The other side seems to think there would be a perpetual bloodbath.

What do you think? Why?

-Tina “Presently Unarmed” G:)
There were a rash of robberies and “snatch and grab” incidents in the Jeweler’s Row section of Philadelphia, where a couple of jewelry merchants got shot. The jewelers finally had enough because the police weren’t doing anything to stop the robberies, so they all started carrying guns, which is legal in PA (you can carry a gun without a permit in your place of business). The thieves still thought that the jewelers would be easy pickings so they tried a few daylight robberies again. One robbery resulted in 2 thieves getting shot and killed. Guess what? The rash of Jeweler’s Row robberies suddenly stopped.

If you want criminals to move away from your town, pass a law that all citizens must take gun training and carry a gun. On the other hand, if you want criminals to move to your area, pass a law that no one can carry a gun. I think that New York is a good example. New York has tough anti-gun laws and a very high violent crime rate. Violent crime has also gone up in Victoria, Australia since guns became illegal in that country. Criminals are not stupid. They follow the laws of economics too, especially self-interest, just like the rest of us. Why would criminals risk getting shot when they know they know they can go into an area where guns are outlawed?

“Gun free” schools in the United States are dangerous places! When I was in Israel, I saw many guns in plain sight. Additionally, the friends that I visited all carried concealed weapons. Therefore, there are no shootings in the schools of Israel. The terrorists had to switch from guns to bombs.
 
+1. Our Catholic faith OFFICIALLY teaches that we have not only a RIGHT but also a DUTY (the Church actually calls it a GRAVE duty) to protect ourselves and our loved ones that means that while we can certainly depend on help from others (calling ‘911’), that should not be our main and only means of defense. Last year (actually two years ago because last year’s number are not available) over 800,000 calls to ‘911’ took an hour or more for help to arrive.
Tell me, has the Pope officially come out and endorsed gun ownership? If so can you provide a link for that?
 
Tell me, has the Pope officially come out and endorsed gun ownership? If so can you provide a link for that?
From the Vatican’s own website …

… the right of legitimate defense by means of arms EXISTS. This right can become a SERIOUS duty for those who are responsible for the lives of others, for the common good of the family or of the civil community. This right ALONE can **justify the possession of arms **…

 
From the Vatican’s own website …

… the right of legitimate defense by means of arms EXISTS. This right can become a SERIOUS duty for those who are responsible for the lives of others, for the common good of the family or of the civil community. This right ALONE can **justify the possession of arms **…

I found it interesting how you took this out of context.

Let me print the rest of the succeeding paragraph, it changes the entire context of the Vatican’s position.

"Unfortunately, however, it is impossible to ban all kinds of small arms and light weapons. “In a world marked by evil … the right of legitimate defence by means of arms exists. This right can become a serious duty for those who are responsible for the lives of others, for the common good of the family or of the civil community. This right alone can justify the possession or transfer of arms”. (Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, “The International Arms Trade: an Ethical Reflection” in Origins 8 (24), 7 July 1994, p. 144).

This is not an absolute right, since there are specific conditions placed on the licitness of the production, possession and acquisition of arms. Nonetheless, in our meeting today the topic is fairly limited. Here we are discussing illicit trade in small arms and light weapons. This is, in a manner of speaking, a negative statement of the fundamental question of the legitimacy of the international arms trade."

Lets be honest here; it was a conference that the topic was the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons, not production, possession and acquisition of arms. Not a position on gun control for the average civilian.

You twisted it to suit your agenda.
 
Reducing gun crime is a primary argument that the anti-Second Amendment people use, which is ridiculous. If the Second Amendment was successfully repealed, only law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns - the criminals sure as hell wouldn’t. It’s the possession of guns by law-abiding citizens that make criminals think twice about committing crimes against people. Why don’t we have more home-invasion incidents and home burglaries than we do in Louisiana…it’s because the bad-guys know that there’s a good chance of getting their heads blown off if they committed them. I read that Australia had a dramatic increase in home-invasion crimes when the government passed a mess of anti-gun laws a few years ago.
 
From the Vatican’s own website …

… the right of legitimate defense by means of arms EXISTS. This right can become a SERIOUS duty for those who are responsible for the lives of others, for the common good of the family or of the civil community. This right ALONE can **justify the possession of arms **…

Excellent quote, one that is most surely not out of context nor twisted, despite the criticism you’ve received. This quote reflects the traditional teaching of the Church on self-defense and the grave duty of defending others.
Reducing gun crime is a primary argument that the anti-Second Amendment people use, which is ridiculous. If the Second Amendment was successfully repealed, only law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns - the criminals sure as hell wouldn’t. It’s the possession of guns by law-abiding citizens that make criminals think twice about committing crimes against people. Why don’t we have more home-invasion incidents and home burglaries than we do in Louisiana…it’s because the bad-guys know that there’s a good chance of getting their heads blown off if they committed them. I read that Australia had a dramatic increase in home-invasion crimes when the government passed a mess of anti-gun laws a few years ago.
Well-said! It sounds cliche, but it is also very true to say that when guns are criminalized, only criminals will have guns. I used to live in New Jersey, a state with some very strict laws about acquiring firearms, handguns in particular. Yet, the crimes committed with firearms and with handguns in especial are staggering. The simple deduction is that criminals, by nature, do not obey laws, and therefore will procure weapons illegally if they must - while the civilized, who obey laws by their nature, will not have firearms available for their protection and will suffer eventually for it. The same thing holds true just about anywhere strict gun laws are repealed and the civilized have freer access to the tools they need in this modern age for their own protection.

What’s more, I cannot understand how anyone doesn’t find it infuriatingly shameful that others think they should be disarmed, even when the threat of criminal activity is very real and present. That ought to raise hackles on anyone :mad:
 
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