Revolvers for Everyone!

[CPA2]

I’m not afraid of guns; unlike some, I don’t need guns.

Advising me to consider leaving America if I’m afraid of guns is a typical reaction by many who are deathly afraid of having that precious weapon they appear to hold so dear removed from their possession by gun control laws being passed.

If one innocent child dies from gunfire, its one too many.

Your gun laws are not going to save any children. Gun control will increase organized crime. Your gun laws will also fatten the wallets of the mafia. Government is impotent.

You are making a false assumption. You do not understand the limitations of government and the law of unintended consequences. If the government can not keep drugs out of maximum security prisons, they will not be able to keep guns out of the hands of people. Government can only cause shortages, higher prices and an INCREASE IN ORGANIZED CRIME when the criminals start selling guns. Government is impotent. Haven’t we learned anything from prohibition?

Prohibition

Alcohol is a dangerous substance. It destroys more lives each year than anything else. The Women’s Christian Temperance Unions and Anti Saloon Leagues wanted to close all saloons in the early 1900s. They knew that alcohol was evil and that prohibition was for our own good. Their dream came true on January 16, 1919. Congress ratified the 18th Amendment. Billy Sunday, the leading crusader against Demon Rum, said, “The reign of tears is over. The slums will be only a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and corncribs. Men will walk upright now, women will smile, and the children will laugh. Hell will be forever for rent.”

Where did these good intentions lead? History shows that prohibition was a vain attempt to protect us from ourselves. Americans simply wanted a drink. They wanted a glass of alcohol to release the stress of their everyday life. However, they had to break the law to drink alcohol. Prohibition did not stop drinking. It just made average law-abiding citizens criminals.

Prohibition also caused an increase in organized crime. Crime had always existed, but now it became more prevalent. Organized crime, bootlegging and corruption among police rose to unprecedented levels during prohibition. Bootlegging became a very profitable business. Gangsters made huge amounts of money supplying underground saloons with smuggled alcohol. The chance of getting caught was slim and the fines were minor. Corruption and bribery became commonplace.

A sad commentary on prohibition was the corruption of our legal system. Bootleggers made millions selling alcohol, and they used the money to bribe government officials and judges. For example, there were about 3,000 treasury agents in 1919. Their pay was poor. There was not enough money to fund good law enforcement. Many treasury agents accepted bribes from bootleggers. More corruption and violence soon followed.

The most irritating aspect of prohibition was the birth of the American mafia. The government’s decision to outlaw the use and production of alcohol made Al Capone, Johnny Torrio and Bugs Moran notorious and wealthy. Al Capone stole ballot boxes and even murdered voting officials. With so much money to be made, gang wars erupted into bloody violence like the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.

By 1933 even the Women’s Christian Temperance Unions and the Anti Saloon Leagues recognized that prohibition caused more problems than it solved. On December 5, 1933 Franklin Roosevelt signed the repeal of the 18th Amendment. America was no longer dry. However, many laws involving drinking and driving have followed since the repeal of prohibition. Additionally, there is strict government control on the selling of alcohol.

We still have the liquor problem. Alcohol is still an evil that destroys more lives than any other dangerous substance. Prohibition teaches us that government is impotent to protect us from alcohol and all dangerous substances. It is not the government’s responsibility to protect us from ourselves. We need to be free to choose what risks we want to take with our lives. The “reign of tears” will be over when free men choose to drink in moderation, or not to drink at all.

 

[Lycorth]

I’m not afraid of guns; unlike some, I don’t need guns.

Advising me to consider leaving America if I’m afraid of guns is a typical reaction by many who are deathly afraid of having that precious weapon they appear to hold so dear removed from their possession by gun control laws being passed.

If one innocent child dies from gunfire, its one too many.

More children die from car accidents every year than gunfire. Must ban cars, too.

But heaven forbid we crack down on a culture that permits “gangsta” violence to be glorified. Heaven double forbid that we crack down on “gangstas” themselves.

As long as criminal violence is a part of human society, we need firearms. I pray that you are never a victim because with that attitude, you’ll end up a statistic.

Inanimate objects are never the problem. Humans are.

Side note: funny how the anti-gun people always seem to forget that we would not even have a country today were it not for a revolution fought with firearms, and fought in large part by people that would be considered backwoods rednecks clutching their “precious weapons”. Now that the hard work is done and a country founded, now we can go ahead and cut off our noses to spite our faces

 

[CPA2]

When I visit the cemetary I see the graves of my son’s teenage friends who were killed in car accidents. A car is a 2,500 pound bullet. Anyone can kill more people with a car than they can with a pistol.

I am an accountant and I think like an auditor. An oral assertion that gun control saves children is very weak evidence. I want to see the historical or eye witness evidence.

My relatives lived in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. I also have relatives in the state police who went to New Orleans after the hurricane. I only have to look at their experiences to make the assertion that guns helped to save lives and property. You may be able to find similar examples on the Internet.

 

[Lycorth]

When I visit the cemetary I see the graves of my son’s teenage friends who were killed in car accidents. A car is a 2,500 pound bullet. Anyone can kill more people with a car than they can with a pistol.

I am an accountant and I think like an auditor. An oral assertion that gun control saves children is very weak evidence. I want to see the historical or eye witness evidence.

My relatives lived in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. I also have relatives in the state police who went to New Orleans after the hurricane. I only have to look at their experiences to make the assertion that guns helped to save lives and property. You may be able to find similar examples on the Internet.

Indeed, experience is a more powerful teacher than all the propaganda in the world. Sadly, the biggest advocates for gun control usually live in the safest communities and they simply do not see the reality of worse places.

We can ask for proof till we turn blue in the face, but we know we’ll only get polemic and propaganda.

 

[CPA2]

Prevention does not sell. Only cures sell. My grandmother was fond of saying that if you do not listen, you have to feel. The gun control crowd is insane and their arguments are based on emotion. People with a crowd mentality learn slowly, and one by one.

Colt did more to make women equal than anyone else. I know of more than one victim who has taken gun training since being attacked. It is unfortunate that we always close the gate AFTER the horse has left the barn.

By the way, many of the criminals in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina wore uniforms. They were the corrupt New Orleans Police. The Louisiana State Police had orders not to stop the New Orleans Police from looting, etc. Private security forces were the only people who dared to aim their weapons at the New Orleans Police.

 

[Lycorth]

Prevention does not sell. Only cures sell. My granmother was fond of saying that if you do not listen, you have to feel. The gun control crowd is insane and their arguments are based on emotion. People with a crowd mentality learn slowly, and one by one.

And, in truth, widespread gun ownership is the ounce of prevention that sure beats the pound of cure that usually materializes as mourning another dead victim, setting up trust funds in the memory of the deceased, endless “round table” talks about why things like this happen and what can be done in the future and so on.

Widespread firearms ownership coupled with safety and handling education is the answer, not disarming the law-abiding in the forlorn hope that criminals will magically give up their guns as well.

Then again, anti-gun fanatics seem to operate from the perspective that a gun is a magic talisman that compels the owner to use it maliciously against others. It will require a change of that false premise before any progress can be made.

Colt did more to make women equal than anyone else. I know of more than one victim who has taken gun training since being attacked. It is unfortunate that we always close the gate AFTER the horse has left the barn.

I agree; I used to live in Trenton, NJ, a city rife with gang violence and general violent crime, and unnecessarily strict firearms laws. For someone concerned with obeying the law, getting a shotgun or a handgun is certainly possible, but very difficult and almost prohibitive in some cases. This hasn’t done a thing to blunt gun crime in New Jersey, but instead of laws being loosened, laws are tightened and made more complex. Yet they wonder why gun crime is still high.

By the way, many of the criminals in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina wore uniforms. They were the corrupt New Orleans Police. The Louisiana State Police had orders not to stop the New Orleans Police from looting, etc. Private security forces were the only people who dared to aim their weapons at the New Orleans Police.

Sickeningly true, and more proof that it is human beings that are the problem. Inanimate objects, like guns, cannot be held culpable for human behavior, unless we choose to subscribe to superstition and believe they are indeed evil magic talismans.

Common sense just isn’t common anymore.

 

[CPA2]

I have always felt very comfortable around a group of men who carry guns. Everyone is very polite!

 

[gamewell45]

More children die from car accidents every year than gunfire. Must ban cars, too.

That may be your position on cars; its not mine.

Cars are not designed to kill or maim people; guns are designed to kill living creatures whether they are human or animal. Using your analogy, breathing too much percentage of oxygen can kill someone, so maybe we ought to ban anyone breathing oxygen?

 

[royal_archer]

I’m not afraid of guns; unlike some, I don’t need guns.

Advising me to consider leaving America if I’m afraid of guns is a typical reaction by many who are deathly afraid of having that precious weapon they appear to hold so dear removed from their possession by gun control laws being passed.

If one innocent child dies from gunfire, its one too many.

So if one child dies from scissors we should ban them? what about electronic debrulators? pencils, skateboards, kitchen knives, bathtubs…

Many common household items are dangerous but their value outweighs their danger. The problem is with people who do not see value in someone defending themselves.

 

[royal_archer]

That may be your position on cars; its not mine.

Cars are not designed to kill or maim people; guns are designed to kill living creatures whether they are human or animal. Using your analogy, breathing too much percentage of oxygen can kill someone, so maybe we ought to ban anyone breathing oxygen?

It is a fact that cars kill more than guns. You can’t just dismiss reality as someone’s possition.

Besides their are three types of weapons: target, hunting, and military defense. none are designed to kill others. Target weapons are designed to put holes in targets. hunting weapons are designed to harvest game; and military/ defense weapons are designed to keep others from killing you. None are designed with the intent to kill other humans.

 

[gamewell45]

It is a fact that cars kill more than guns. You can’t just dismiss reality as someone’s possition.

Besides their are three types of weapons: target, hunting, and military defense. none are designed to kill others. Target weapons are designed to put holes in targets. hunting weapons are designed to harvest game; and military/ defense weapons are designed to keep others from killing you. None are designed with the intent to kill other humans.

Sorry Royal, no sell. Like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is and there is no getting around it. You can come up with all the defenses you want on guns, but you can’t justify the statistics presented. And trying to take the spotlight off of it and move it onto cars, knives, etc just doesn’t work.

 

[CPA2]

Sorry Royal, no sell. Like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is and there is no getting around it. You can come up with all the defenses you want on guns, but you can’t justify the statistics presented. And trying to take the spotlight off of it and move it onto cars, knives, etc just doesn’t work.

We will have to agree to disagree. Once you accepted the false assumption that gun control (disarming of America) is worth it if just one child is saved, then everything after that is logical. I call that a state of disassociation.

Every choice has a cost. The cost of disarming America, the end purpose of gun control, is too great. We accountants follow the principle of cost versus benefit. If the cost exceeds the benefit, then we do not do anything.

No one will be able to change your mind. My grandmother would say that if you do not listen, you will have to feel. Some people just have to learn everything the hard way. A smart man learns from his own mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

 

[Lycorth]

That may be your position on cars; its not mine.

Cars are not designed to kill or maim people; guns are designed to kill living creatures whether they are human or animal. Using your analogy, breathing too much percentage of oxygen can kill someone, so maybe we ought to ban anyone breathing oxygen?

The fact that firearms are designed to kill does not magically impute unto them evil intent. Killing is an amoral act; the reasons for the killing impute moral character to the act.

My example stands. You were not arguing that guns are evil because they were designed to kill, rather that since a certain number of murders can be attributed to (the misuse) of guns, that guns should be banned. Changing gears will not salvage an untenable argument.

Sorry Royal, no sell. Like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is and there is no getting around it. You can come up with all the defenses you want on guns, but you can’t justify the statistics presented. And trying to take the spotlight off of it and move it onto cars, knives, etc just doesn’t work.

The arguments against gun control have been irrefutably presented. The “statistics” you have provided are false and I pointed out a glaring inconsistency in the link you offered. There is not now and never has been a single credible study done to prove that the mere availability of firearms causes normally law-abiding humans to magically turn into gun-crazed killers. Not one. To the contrary, the facts are that human beings commit crimes, whether they choose guns or anything else, and it is human behavior that must be controlled and criminals that must be banned, not coddled and catered to.

The reason gun crime is so high in some parts of the US is because of thug culture and thug mentality - driven by thugs themselves. That is what must be cracked down upon.

Of course, I can hear the bleating now: it’s a matter of freedom of speech to promote gangsta culture and thuggishness! No, it isn’t. When one uses freedom to cause harm or incite immorality, one loses one’s “rights” to “free speech”. On the contrary, gun bans are blatantly illegal, as per the same American constitution the free speech fanatics use to justify gangsta culture.

This leads me to the inevitable conclusion that at the heart of the gun control mania on the Left there lies a deliberate and sinister ploy to disarm Americans. Sorry, but I will not participate in being rendered helpless.

 

[CPA2]

.

This leads me to the inevitable conclusion that at the heart of the gun control mania on the Left there lies a deliberate and sinister ploy to disarm Americans. Sorry, but I will not participate in being rendered helpless.

Very good!

The government is against guns because guns are a threat to government’s power. That reason is precisely why the founding fathers wrote the second amendment.

By the way, God (divine law above man’s law) and gold (real money) also limit government’s power. That is why governments oppose God, guns and gold. Hitler banned guns. Communism banned gold, guns and God.

 

[royal_archer]

Sorry Royal, no sell. Like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is and there is no getting around it. You can come up with all the defenses you want on guns, but you can’t justify the statistics presented. And trying to take the spotlight off of it and move it onto cars, knives, etc just doesn’t work.

Why would anyone want to justify statistics. statistics are a mathmatical calculation either they are correct or incorrect their is no justification. Most of use do not live in world where the laws of math are up for discussion much less where people try to justify them.

 

[royal_archer]

.

This leads me to the inevitable conclusion that at the heart of the gun control mania on the Left there lies a deliberate and sinister ploy to disarm Americans. Sorry, but I will not participate in being rendered helpless.

Very good!

The government is against guns because guns are a threat to government’s power. That reason is precisely why the founding fathers wrote the second amendment.

By the way, God (divine law above man’s law) and gold (real money) also limit government’s power. That is why governments oppose God, guns and gold. Hitler banned guns. Communism banned gold, guns and God.

When someone is more against guns than they are against other things that cause greater numbers of injuries, then you have to think twice about there using safety as a basis of there objections. If you then consider that the groups that tend to be pro government tyrany also tend to be anti self defense you have to consider the likelihood that those who advocate against self defense are mearly pro government tyrany.

 

[CPA2]

Why would anyone want to justify statistics. statistics are a mathmatical calculation either they are correct or incorrect their is no justification. Most of use do not live in world where the laws of math are up for discussion much less where people try to justify them.

Here we go again. Precision shooting is very cerebral and math oriented; that is why I like long-range shooting.

The “laws” of math are up for discussion, especially the laws of probability. Statistics has always been one of my favorite subjects. Here is something that I wrote about math in 2004.

Mathematics

Some of the most brilliant people in the world have spent their entire lives devising mathematical formulas. Napier, Sir Isaac Newton and Pascal are a few of the mathematicians who made major contributions to mathematics. Napier is famous for his work with natural logarithms. Sir Isaac Newton developed calculus, and Pascal is famous for his studies of conic sections, probability and differential calculus.

Algebra has been around since the Greeks and Aristotle. Methods using algebra were later combined with calculus. With such diversity between each other, algebra and calculus have been able to support each other for simplicity. Basic arithmetic, algebra and calculus are the prime interest of fundamental mathematics. With these subintervals, they fall under the umbrella called mathematics.

With an interest in understanding the principals of nature, many brilliant minds developed mathematical methods using the foundation of mathematics. Differentiation has been able to break down the area of a function into subintervals. With the addition of these intervals, mathematicians can calculate the area of a function by integration. With the basic steps of mathematics, mathematicians are able to take a complicated problem and simplify it into algebra and calculus to derive an answer.

Numbers are what hold our world together. The use of numbers gives us accuracy and precision. Methods and developments of mathematics give our world justification and understanding. Mathematicians can use nonrealistic numbers to define the limits of infinity or imaginary numbers. Mathematics is a field by itself. However, all science uses mathematics to make things simple.

Most people have an instinctive method of counting and grouping. Mathematics builds on that instinct. Math gives unity and precision where needed, from filling up your gas tank to making a building structurally sound. Mathematics is the foundation of all science and scientific progress. The use of numbers put man on the moon. Mathematics is in a world by itself.

 

[royal_archer]

Here we go again. Precision shooting is very cerebral and math oriented; that is why I like long-range shooting.

The “laws” of math are up for discussion, especially the laws of probability. Statistics has always been one of my favorite subjects. Here is something that I wrote about math in 2004.

Mathematics

Some of the most brilliant people in the world have spent their entire lives devising mathematical formulas. Napier, Sir Isaac Newton and Pascal are a few of the mathematicians who made major contributions to mathematics. Napier is famous for his work with natural logarithms. Sir Isaac Newton developed calculus, and Pascal is famous for his studies of conic sections, probability and differential calculus.

Algebra has been around since the Greeks and Aristotle. Methods using algebra were later combined with calculus. With such diversity between each other, algebra and calculus have been able to support each other for simplicity. Basic arithmetic, algebra and calculus are the prime interest of fundamental mathematics. With these subintervals, they fall under the umbrella called mathematics.

With an interest in understanding the principals of nature, many brilliant minds developed mathematical methods using the foundation of mathematics. Differentiation has been able to break down the area of a function into subintervals. With the addition of these intervals, mathematicians can calculate the area of a function by integration. With the basic steps of mathematics, mathematicians are able to take a complicated problem and simplify it into algebra and calculus to derive an answer.

Numbers are what hold our world together. The use of numbers gives us accuracy and precision. Methods and developments of mathematics give our world justification and understanding. Mathematicians can use nonrealistic numbers to define the limits of infinity or imaginary numbers. Mathematics is a field by itself. However, all science uses mathematics to make things simple.

Most people have an instinctive method of counting and grouping. Mathematics builds on that instinct. Math gives unity and precision where needed, from filling up your gas tank to making a building structurally sound. Mathematics is the foundation of all science and scientific progress. The use of numbers put man on the moon. Mathematics is in a world by itself.

Not sure what I tapped into there

There is some variability in predictive statistical anaylsis. But historical statistics based on complete data sets is a different story. 2+2 equals 4 no sane person would talk about justifying the results of such a calculation.

Long bow shooting is good for the mind and body. (but bad for French knights)

 

[CPA2]

Not sure what I tapped into there

There is some variability in predictive statistical anaylsis. But historical statistics based on complete data sets is a different story. 2+2 equals 4 no sane person would talk about justifying the results of such a calculation.

Long bow shooting is good for the mind and body. (but bad for French knights)

Creative accountants can make 2+2 to be whatever you want it to be. i.e. Enron and Arthur Anderson

 

[Sir_Knight]

Why are we arguing over what 2+2 is? 2+2 in any base five or higher will be 4.

2+2 in base four is 10 and in base three is 11.