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sidbrown
Guest
Last time I was at the airport, the airline had me go through a security check. Was this paranoid delusion?
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chriso
Guest
Maybe not paranoid delusion, but certainly a missunderstanding or misstatement of the facts. It was actually the TSA who had you go through their security check, not the airlines.
It’s interesting considering your previous comments about our not being allowed to carry on airliners somehow proving that gun restrictions make things safer… one of only two increased safety precautions the government took that I agree with is that they admitted it’d make it safer if they allowed the pilots to arm themselves… (the other being the door reinforcements)
Clearly the case of the federal government choosing to arm the pilots in the wake of 9-11 proves that additional armament does make things safer.
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sidbrown
Guest
What is being advocated is not consistent. On the one hand, we see that safety requires that people who ride on the plane be disarmed. But on the other hand, people on this thread claim that schools will be safer if each student brings a loaded weapon to class. This is inconsistent and therefore does not make any sense.
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chriso
Guest
Actually, what you are advocating sounds inconsistent. The OP questioned weather society would be safer if the citizenry were armed, or not.
On the one hand we have you claiming that the more citizens who are armed will create greater danger for others in society (I assume not necessarily limited to “bad guys”) And, we have you claiming that because they wont let everyone on the plane be armed that it proves your point. When in fact…
On the other hand we have the federal government clearly concluding that addtional armament on flights (arming pilots) makes things safer…
This is inconsistent and therefore does not make any sense.
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CPA2
Guest
I did not make an assumption!
Many of the criminals in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina wore uniforms. They were the corrupt New Orleans Police. The Louisiana State Police had orders not to stop the New Orleans Police from looting, etc. Private security forces were the only people who dared to aim their weapons at the New Orleans Police.
I can verify these stories from my conversations with private security forces and the Louisiana State Police. Both of these groups had their guns pointed at the New Orleans Police.
Do you have oral documentation or any documentation for your assumptions? I do not think so. You fail to back up your assumptions with real life examples, economic research, etc. Therefore, your arguments are superficial and weak.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
They made fun of what was said and presented it as a joke, but if you look beyond the humor there is much wisdom in those words. All that would have been needed was one armed individual on each of the 911 flights to prevent what happened.
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tjm190
Guest
You can’t hijack a class room and fly to another country/into the ground/a building. You can fire a shot out a window of a class room and cause a pressure drop.
Lots of things are banned on planes that are welcome elsewhere- such as fireworks, anything sharp, and those big scary water bottles.
Also, on a plane a vigilante is highly likely to do hit another passenger or puncture the hull of the plane.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
That part about planes depressurizing and people being sucked out? It’s just in the movies.
As for someone else getting shot by mistake. I think you would have to look at the greater good. Couple that the measuring stick we all use, intent. Then I’m sure you agree it’s a rational choice to fire upon a terrorist in an airplane. If I were hit by mistake, and survived. I would forgive the shooter. No question.ATB
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sidbrown
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This is not true. A group of armed men could hijack a classroom.
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sidbrown
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You bring up the issue and then you ask me for documentation.
From what you say, you have only hearsay evidence. Hearsay evidence is not the same as documented evidence accepted by all.
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TheWalsh
Guest
Dear sidbrown: You asked what would happen if a student brought a machine gun to school. Are you not aware that ownership of machine guns has been outlawed to the general population since 1934? I have some trepidation about allowing children to carry firearms to school but none at all over eighteen year old college students doing so. I certainly wish someone did at Virginia Tech. Don’t you?
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royal_archer
Guest
You are comparing the arguements of citizens vs government agents where there is a natural difference of perspective. Citizens know that being armed will make us safer and corrupt politicians know that disarming law abiding citizens will make the corrupt politicians safer.
Now your next failed premise is that they banned guns from airplanes to make flying safer. If you simply replace Airbus airliners with Boeing aircraft you would see a far greater increase in safety than all of the anti terror activities. But they are not interested in making things safer, they are only interested in making people feel like they are safer. They are only interested in getting reelected and doing well in the polls and John Q. public who doesn’t know any better is just happy something is getting done and is not necesarilly able to do the analysis to see if what has been done is really effective.
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royal_archer
Guest
And women couldn’t? Women are just as capable as men. Of course asking the pilot to fly to cuba probably wouldn’t be to fruitfull.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Actually, the government still opposed pilots carrying guns aboard their airliners even after 9/11. However, after a lot of pressure, the government adopted a permissive attitude subject to rigorous rules and training, at the personal cost to the pilots.
However, while researching this issue, I found that the Obama administration may be reversing the rule that pilots may bring guns aboard their planes to defend the cockpit.
It’s worth to continue to research this issue.
akdart.com/gun1.html
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Theophile
Guest
Maybe, as a New Zealander, I am merely prejudiced, but I find it hard to reconcile the ideas of Christian justice and carrying guns. Did the first Christians, presecuted as they were, carry weapons? I can see the point of defence, but wonder if the best solution would merely be to remove weapons from the equation.
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royal_archer
Guest
The proper thing to do would be to accept martydom. However we can not sit back and watch others suffer when we can defend them. And many of us do not see getting killed by thugs and common thieves as warranting our forfieting our lives.
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chriso
Guest
Somehow that doesnt surprise me, thanks for the heads up… I’ll get after our pair of Senators here from Alaska and make sure their votes continue to neutralize each other!
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sidbrown
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I consider this comment to be irrelevant and immaterial to the topic at hand.
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sidbrown
Guest
Of course you are absolutely right and those who are calling for students to carry loaded weapons into the classroom are absolutely wrong. I don;t see where Our Lord commanded us to carry weapons with us to defend ourselves. In fact, He advised us to do just the opposite.
You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV
And in the Gospel of Luke:
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
—Luke 6:27-31. NIV
Now shall we follow the words of Our Divine Lord and Savior on this or not?
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chriso
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We all should already know the dangers of sola scriptura here, but aside from that, apparently according to your train of thought, our Lord must have forgotten to make sure they recorded his words about “let your enemies rape and kill your wives and daughters, do not stop them and do not demand they stop”… for starters…
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