Reworded, we must help but not have sympathy for most AIDS victims-please think.

[funinsnow]

Hi, I understand that I may have not properly written my view as a non-Catholic on AIDS victims & some people got offended. I thought about this for a few hours, spoke with others & here is my revised view though main idea stays the same. Yes, we must help people who are sick with any disease whether it’s their fault or not. If a drug junky OD or if a drunk driver gets injured, then it’s a Drs. duty to help him or her heal. HOWEVER, I can’t sympathise with a drunk driver who breaks a leg or even gets killed while drunk driving because they took a reckless risk.

With AIDS victims, if a baby gets the disease from their mom, then yes they’re sympathetic victims just as if a person gets AIDS from a bad blood transfusion. In those cases it’s not the victims fault. But gay AIDS victims have themselves to blame. If a gay is going to be promiscuous & not use condoms incl. use drugs, then it’s his fault if he gets AIDS & I can’t sympathise with him as he knew the risks but chose to take them. If a straight man did it with many women , not use condoms & got a deadly Venereal Disease (VD), then I have no sympathy.

The problem with AIDS is that it has become a politically correct disease for which you’re condemned if you say you don’t sympathize as Elton John (recovered junky & drunkard) did when he calls me Fascists, thus comparing me to Dictator Benito Mussolini who killed people & was exected in 1945. If a smoker dies of lung cancer (have known 2 people who have), we usu. say that while it’s bad that the smoker died, they knew the risks but chose to take them. We try to help the smoker quit their habit. Many smokers (incl. a neighbor who died of lung cancer) would ask us not to sympathize with them if they get lung cancer because they understood the harms involved.

Gay AIDS victims need to be treated like people who use drugs. It’s best to help them quit gay/lesbian activities but Elton John who believes in free will when it comes to gay activities is hostile to repair therapy to cure or @least better treat homosexulity, though that would bring down AIDS. I know that people will differ with why I don’t sympathise. But it’s for the easy reason-if you take part in reckless conduct knowing the risks, then I can’t sympathize with you. Some will talk about construction workers who do dangerous jobs, etc. My answer there is that if you do a dangerous job & if you’re not going to follow safety rules such as a construction worker who doesn’t wear safety glasses, helmet, gloves, etc. & you get seriously injured or killed, well you were negligent & I can’t sympathise. Some will also raise the food eg. of people who eat poorly & die of heart disease, diabetes or cancer. This eg. is more complex because you need food in order to live & with poor people, they don’t always have access to supermarkets which sell healthy foods but just bad markets. Now on the other hand if you’re educated & wealthy but still choose to eat poorly, then proceed @ your own risk.

Anyhow, I’ve thought about this. I can’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims because they chose to take the risks knowing what may happen. Elton John can lecture, call me a Fascist or even blame ‘homophobes’ for AIDS, but the truth is that if the gays had been celibate, most of them wouldn’t have gotten AIDS. Those are facts. Anyhow, your turn, but please try to understand why I can’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims just as I can’t sympathise with others who knowingly are reckless & then get injured or killed in the other eg. given. It’s not politically wrong to say you do not sympathize with drunk drivers who get injured or killed yet you get decried & scored when you say that you don’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims for reasons given.

 

[Tenofovir]

Hi, I understand that I may have not properly written my view as a non-Catholic on AIDS victims & some people got offended. I thought about this for a few hours, spoke with others & here is my revised view though main idea stays the same. Yes, we must help people who are sick with any disease whether it’s their fault or not. If a drug junky OD or if a drunk driver gets injured, then it’s a Drs. duty to help him or her heal. HOWEVER, I can’t sympathise with a drunk driver who breaks a leg or even gets killed while drunk driving because they took a reckless risk.

With AIDS victims, if a baby gets the disease from their mom, then yes they’re sympathetic victims just as if a person gets AIDS from a bad blood transfusion. In those cases it’s not the victims fault. But gay AIDS victims have themselves to blame. If a gay is going to be promiscuous & not use condoms incl. use drugs, then it’s his fault if he gets AIDS & I can’t sympathise with him as he knew the risks but chose to take them. If a straight man did it with many women , not use condoms & got a deadly Venereal Disease (VD), then I have no sympathy.

The problem with AIDS is that it has become a politically correct disease for which you’re condemned if you say you don’t sympathize as Elton John (recovered junky & drunkard) did when he calls me Fascists, thus comparing me to Dictator Benito Mussolini who killed people & was exected in 1945. If a smoker dies of lung cancer (have known 2 people who have), we usu. say that while it’s bad that the smoker died, they knew the risks but chose to take them. We try to help the smoker quit their habit. Many smokers (incl. a neighbor who died of lung cancer) would ask us not to sympathize with them if they get lung cancer because they understood the harms involved.

Gay AIDS victims need to be treated like people who use drugs. It’s best to help them quit gay/lesbian activities but Elton John who believes in free will when it comes to gay activities is hostile to repair therapy to cure or @least better treat homosexulity, though that would bring down AIDS. I know that people will differ with why I don’t sympathise. But it’s for the easy reason-if you take part in reckless conduct knowing the risks, then I can’t sympathize with you. Some will talk about construction workers who do dangerous jobs, etc. My answer there is that if you do a dangerous job & if you’re not going to follow safety rules such as a construction worker who doesn’t wear safety glasses, helmet, gloves, etc. & you get seriously injured or killed, well you were negligent & I can’t sympathise. Some will also raise the food eg. of people who eat poorly & die of heart disease, diabetes or cancer. This eg. is more complex because you need food in order to live & with poor people, they don’t always have access to supermarkets which sell healthy foods but just bad markets. Now on the other hand if you’re educated & wealthy but still choose to eat poorly, then proceed @ your own risk.

Anyhow, I’ve thought about this. I can’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims because they chose to take the risks knowing what may happen. Elton John can lecture, call me a Fascist or even blame ‘homophobes’ for AIDS, but the truth is that if the gays had been celibate, most of them wouldn’t have gotten AIDS. Those are facts. Anyhow, your turn, but please try to understand why I can’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims just as I can’t sympathise with others who knowingly are reckless & then get injured or killed in the other eg. given. It’s not politically wrong to say you do not sympathize with drunk drivers who get injured or killed yet you get decried & scored when you say that you don’t sympathize with gay AIDS victims for reasons given.

Hehe, I thought you were an agent provocateur, with such a name and with such controversial posts.

Perhaps you should empathise anyway or try to. It builds character. As Christians we should do our best to empathise and to love our enemies or even people who make errors. But I agree that one should deal with the causes of problems instead of avoiding them and “beating about the bush”. Sexual promiscuity does lead to a large number of HIV cases. It should be addressed. It is not. Anal sex is also more risky and it allows easier infection with HIV. It is of course wrong morally under Catholicism as well, as is promiscuous sex.

Sadly because of child abuse, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa more and more children are infected with HIV. There is still a perception in some circles that sex with a virgin or a child cures HIV. Many children have been infected with HIV for that reason.

 

[DexUK]

The Church recognises, in the Catechism, the fact that some people have an innate nature as a homosexual.

You suggest that these people can be ‘cured’. I suggest to you that they can no more be cured of their homosexuality than they can be cured of the particular colour of their eyes.

You suggest that you cannot have sympathy with those who have contracted AIDS as a result of their aberrant behaviour. I suggest to you that you can sympathise with someone who is suffering without having to approve of the method by which they came into that state.

You imply that Elton John’s opinion is somehow devalued by his being a recovered “drunkard and junkie”. I suggest to you that a person’s opinions on matters of morals are not devalued because they may previously have conducted themselves unwisely.

If previous unwise behaviour were a barrier to being a good person, then the Apostle Matthew would have been persona non grata to the early Christians, having previously been a tax collector, which was something reviled by the society of the time.

By all means have a moral objection to immoral acts. But do not limit your sympathy with the human sufferings endured by people who have committed immoral acts because, if you do, you will eventually find that there’ll be nobody you can be sympathetic too, since there isn’t a man or woman alive today who hasn’t, at some point in their life, sinned.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I’m going to reiterate what I said in the previous thread: Not all people who contract AIDS are gay men, drug users, or babies contracting it from their mothers. There are women who have contracted it from their husbands or boyfriends. There are people who have contracted it while caring for a loved one with AIDS. There are people with hemophilia who contracted it from a blood transfusion (before hospitals began screening donor blood more carefully) and there was a case of a woman back in the early 1990s who got it from improperly sterilized dental tools.

It’s a horrible disease that does horrible things to the sufferer’s body and like any patient with a terminal illness, the people who have it deserve our sympathy. It attacks the person’s immune system, leaving them vulnerable to infection. The common cold, for a person with a healthy immune system, is a few days of annoyance, but for a person in the last stage of AIDS, it’s a death sentence.

 

[Tenofovir]

I’m going to reiterate what I said in the previous thread: Not all people who contract AIDS are gay men, drug users, or babies contracting it from their mothers. There are women who have contracted it from their husbands or boyfriends. There are people who have contracted it while caring for a loved one with AIDS. There are people with hemophilia who contracted it from a blood transfusion (before hospitals began screening donor blood more carefully) and there was a case of a woman back in the early 1990s who got it from improperly sterilized dental tools.

It’s a horrible disease that does horrible things to the sufferer’s body and like any patient with a terminal illness, the people who have it deserve our sympathy. It attacks the person’s immune system, leaving them vulnerable to infection. The common cold, for a person with a healthy immune system, is a few days of annoyance, but for a person in the last stage of AIDS, it’s a death sentence.

As someone else put it, would you say that someone who developed heart disease as a result of eating too much animal protein and not enough veggies is no longer deserving of sympathy? What about a coal miner who contracted black lung disease, or a sandblaster who contracted silicosis, or an airport worker who lost their hearing?

Most HIV/AIDS patients are heterosexual women, followed by heterosexual men, followed by children and infants. Gays, intra-venous drug users and minorities are the usual patients in America, Europe, South America and Asia. The bulk of the cases are from Sub-Saharan Africa where mostly heterosexuals have the disease, although the disease is more common among homosexuals, in some areas as many as 30-40% of the population are infected…

 

[horselvr]

It is extremely sad to watch how this disease ravages the body and mind. How one could not feel sympathy is beyond me. It’s just horrible to see how they just slip away and become unrecognizable not only to themselves but also to their loved ones. This disease just takes them and others are left with such a helpless feeling.

Heterosexual—homosexual----they are still loved, they are still someone’s child.

 

[funinsnow]

With the women who got AIDS from men, must wonder how many of the men are homosexuals If a man has sodomy (anal) with a woman, then he’ll raise AIDS risks. That’s why we must recommend people not have anal-most straights don’t take part in this anyhow. If not mistaken, the blood supply in many subSaharan African nations is often tainted. This will be repeat, but you’re asking me to sympathize with gay AIDS victims & can’t do that for the same reason as no sympathy for injuries a drunk driver gets when he or she decides to drive after being drunk.

Minister Robert Larson & Dr. James Clayton Dobson have said that facts are facts-when you choose to be reckless, the you have yourself to blame if you get sick or die. Yes you can die from diseases caused by daily activities such as drinking poor water or eating food, but eating & drinking are what you need to live & you don’t have a choice to avoid the risks. Most people need to work in order to make ends meet so a coal miner who dies of Black lung assuming he followed safety rules can’t be blamed because he needs the money in order to feed his family & is doing a job. Same with a soldier who fights for his nation-they’re doing a job which can get them wounded or killed-you need soldiers, cops, fireman & paramedics for the nation’s security. Gay activities are bad & they’re not a need of life but harmful to health. A gay doesn’t need to take part in same sex conduct in order to live while a person who eats poorly or drinks bad water needs the food & water in order to live esp. if he or she can’t afford anything better.

It is extremely sad to watch how this disease ravages the body and mind. How one could not feel sympathy is beyond me. It’s just horrible to see how they just slip away and become unrecognizable not only to themselves but also to their loved ones…

It’s also horrible to see a drunk driver lose their arm, leg or end up a quadraplegic. But honestly, it’s their fault they ended up like that. The gay AIDS victims knew that this was a risk but still chose to take them, so it’s their fault.

 

[thistle]

With the women who got AIDS from men, must wonder how many of the men are homosexuals ** If a man has sodomy (anal) with a woman, then he’ll raise AIDS risks.** That’s why we must recommend people not have anal-most straights don’t take part in this anyhow. If not mistaken, the blood supply in many subSaharan African nations is often tainted. This will be repeat, but you’re asking me to sympathize with gay AIDS victims & can’t do that for the same reason as no sympathy for injuries a drunk driver gets when he or she decides to drive after being drunk.

Minister Robert Larson & Dr. James Clayton Dobson have said that facts are facts-when you choose to be reckless, the you have yourself to blame if you get sick or die. Yes you can die from diseases caused by daily activities such as drinking poor water or eating food, but eating & drinking are what you need to live & you don’t have a choice to avoid the risks. Most people need to work in order to make ends meet so a coal miner who dies of Black lung assuming he followed safety rules can’t be blamed because he needs the money in order to feed his family & is doing a job. Same with a soldier who fights for his nation-they’re doing a job which can get them wounded or killed-you need soldiers, cops, fireman & paramedics for the nation’s security. Gay activities are bad & they’re not a need of life but harmful to health. A gay doesn’t need to take part in same sex conduct in order to live while a person who eats poorly or drinks bad water needs the food & water in order to live esp. if he or she can’t afford anything better.

I don’t even understand your logic.
Are you saying that you think a man who has AIDS and has anal sex with his wife puts her at higher risk of contracting the virus than if he had vaginal sex with her?

 

[horselvr]

Oh MY.

I think you may just have a problem with gays.

“That’s why we must recommend people not have anal-most straights don’t take part in this anyhow.”

That’s horse hockey.

The hardest thing I ever had to do was watch an old friend slip away from aids. How he got it was none of my concern. Making sure he knew I was there for him was more important.

Have you ever been around anyone with this disease? Have you ever seen what it does? First hand?

 

[walnutleviosa]

It’s funny that if someone.gets AIDS from being promiscuious you won’t feel sympathy for them…how do I know you’re not promiscuious without AIDS? You’re critical about AIDS sufferers but what about loose people on the whole? You think your sins are smaller than those of AIDS victims? Look at the plank in your eye and not at the grain in other’s eyes.

 

[St_Francis]

Funinsnow
Mr Larson and Dr. Dobson are not Catholic.

As Catholics, we know each of us has sinned. How many people have driven drunk and not been hurt? How many people did so and hurt themselves and then repented but still had to suffer?

Yes, certain sinful activites do cause AIDS, but other activites are also sinful and yet do not carry the same (ETA: material or earthly) repercussions. And we have all sinned, and none of us deserve anything good. The good we receive is from God, given to us out of love, not because we deserve it.

So I have sympathy for those who suffer from their bad decisions. It could so easily have been me: even if I never preformed a reckless act, the fact that I did not is due to God’s protection rather than to me.

 

[DexUK]

With the women who got AIDS from men, must wonder how many of the men are homosexuals If a man has sodomy (anal) with a woman, then he’ll raise AIDS risks. That’s why we must recommend people not have anal-most straights don’t take part in this anyhow. If not mistaken, the blood supply in many subSaharan African nations is often tainted. This will be repeat, but you’re asking me to sympathize with gay AIDS victims & can’t do that for the same reason as no sympathy for injuries a drunk driver gets when he or she decides to drive after being drunk.

I don’t know how many times it needs to be said to you, but the vast majority of AIDS victims are heterosexual.

HIV/AIDS is NOT principally a Gay-Disease, and anyone who perpetuates this myth does a grave disservice to anyone he spreads it to. The myth itself is likely to be responsible for giving people who are already acting impurely the idea that it is safe enough to sleep around heterosexually.

I think - in fact I know - you are also deeply wrong about the mechanics of contracting HIV. It can be contracted through ‘normal’ vaginal intercourse and any impression otherwise is misleading and dangerous. Yes, other types of fornication also are at risk of transmitting the virus - if it is present in one party or the other - and may, indeed, carry a higher risk, but your suggestion that the only reason women contract HIV is because their husbands are secretly homosexual is ridiculous in-extremis.

As for your repeated assertion of your lack of sympathy for the human plight of people suffering illness because you consider that they ‘deserve’ it, well I simply can’t be bothered to debate that with you any more. You don’t seem capable of sympathy for people in the way that we as Catholics seem able. That saddens me deeply, but I don’t suppose there’s anything I can do about it.