Rick Warren

[South_Bound]

Who said anything about 30,000 denominations?

The common Catholic lie is 30,000 and you said “tens of thousands”/

And I will gladly use the correct number of denominations, if you will provide me with that.

And your source for this correct number.

You’re the one who claimed there are “tens of thousands” of Christian denominations. Where’s your source?

And please make sure it includes every single one of these churches.

http://www.charlesjohnstonephotography.com/thumbs/photography/05_churches/thumb1/01.jpg

Funny you should mention that. One of the reasons cited for the inaccuracy of the Catholic “30,000 denominations” lie is that churches are counted individually, and not as part of the denomination they’re a part of.

In this case, such a church would be one of many churches within just one denomination (in this case, Pentecostal Holiness).

Ah.

Here’s a perfect example of what Memaw was positing: you really didn’t know the faith in which you left.

Catholicism actually does have a problem with lying. A great problem.

OK. We’ll see about that by counting the number of your fellow Catholics who rebuke you for lying.

*CCC means Catechism of the Catholic Church, Southbound.

Figured that out all by yourself, did you?

Imagine not knowing that Catholicism has a problem with lying! That’s pretty basic Catholicism 101.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/facepalm/grand/disappointed_gif_44556.gif

Funny, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw you practicing Catholic taqiyya.

PRmerger:

As I said, I will gladly use the correct number of Christian denominations if you will tell me what number it is.

So, let me get this straight: you made the claim that there are “tens of thousands” of Christian denominations, but you need me to tell you how many there really are before you will know how you came up with the “tens of thousands” lie?

Make sure it includes these churches, as well as your source, and if I find your sources credible, I will certainly use them!

First of all, I’ve already addressed the fallacy of counting individual churches within a denomination as separate and distinct denominations.

Second, why should I give you a source when you won’t show the source you used to come up with the “tens of thousands” claim?

PRmerger:

Fair enough.

If I would ever lie here on the CAFs, I would fully expect Catholics to rebuke me.

One would hope. But, unfortunately, Catholics practice a brand of taqiyya, so they’ll probably applaud you for lying about us.

 

[PRmerger]

Some former Catholics I know get some of their ongoing spiritual guidance from his online ministries. I wish I could tell them “Rick Warren is ok, but the spiritual riches you left behind are much deeper than the good stuff Rick Warren provides” because I believe the full potential for Christian conversion is in Catholic doctrine.

Egg-zactly.

 

[PRmerger]

You’re the one who claimed there are “tens of thousands” of Christian denominations. Where’s your source?

As I said, I will gladly use the correct number of Christian denominations if you will tell me what number it is.

Make sure it includes these churches, as well as your source, and if I find your sources credible, I will certainly use them!

http://religionsofharlem.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/P1000184-e1297812495835-225x300.jpg

 

[South_Bound]

commenter:

I believe the full potential for Christian conversion is in Catholic doctrine.

…whereas, we believe it’s in the effectually calling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PRmerger]

In this case, such a church would be one of many churches within just one denomination (in this case, Pentecostal Holiness).

Each pastor in the Pentecostal Holiness churches is subject to no one, save his own (fallible) interpretation of Scripture.

pctii.org/arc/1913_bk.html

That makes it its own denomination.

Unless you can provide me with some source that says that he must submit to the authority of a central Pentecostal Holiness magisterium, then each of these churches stands alone.

 

[PRmerger]

OK. We’ll see about that by counting the number of your fellow Catholics who rebuke you for lying.

Fair enough.

If I would ever lie here on the CAFs, I would fully expect Catholics to rebuke me.

 

[acacia12]

I don’t understand. I have heard that there are 10’s of thousand different denominations. I took it as though there were for example Baptist,Pentecostal, Lutheran and so forth. Meaning that they come under headers if you like. I didn’t know that churches were countedindividually. Or maybe a better example ,that all Catholic churches were counted individually and not as one.

 

[South_Bound]

I don’t understand. I have heard that there are 10’s of thousand different denominations. I took it as though there were for example Baptist,Pentecostal, Lutheran and so forth. Meaning that they come under headers if you like. I didn’t know that churches were countedindividually. Or maybe a better example ,that all Catholic churches were counted individually and not as one.

Yes, in the Catholic taqiyya concerning the number of denominations, among the reasons cited for its inaccuracy are:

1. It lists non-Christian religious groups as Christian denominations
2. It lists committees and subgroups within a denomination as separate and distinct denominations, in themselves (i.e. listing the NAMB as its own denomination when, in fact, it is merely the evangelism committee of theSBC)
3. It counts thousands of independent and non-denominational churches as separate and distinct denomimations, when “independent” refers to the autonomy of the local church, and not independence from a denomination, and when most non-denominational churches actually fall into the Baptist category.
4. It counts multiple churches within the same denomination as different denominations. For instance, if there is a “1st Baptist” and “2nd Baptist” in a town, it counts them twice.

 

[Tigg]

I too was waiting for him to say he was going to become Catholic LOL! I say it’s just a matter of time that he will. I have his book “A purpose driven life” that an evangelical Christian friend gave me. I haven’t read it yet, because I was concerned that it isn’t written by a Catholic and I am still early in my learning of the Catholic faith.

(Attempting to bring this thread back to the original topic here…)

I believe you are very wise. As a convert you have found a precious pearl in the Church and it would be sensible to hold it tightly and let it grow to an entire treasure. There are well meaning but subtle innuendos in some of his articles and sometimes this is more dangerous than outright rejection of teaching. I remember many years ago the number of Catholics who were fooled by Jimmy Swaggert when the Catholic charismatic movement began to catch fire. It is most unfortunate that some Catholics do not recognize they have everything they might need to live a full spiritual life within the faith. We would be delighted to have Rick Warren convert, but I doubt that is his direction. Today in the Church we find dialogue with Muslims, Buddhists and Protestants, but the spirit of ecumenism does not mean we must risk and expose our pearls in order that they be taken from us.

 

[Tigg]

First of all, I’ve already addressed the fallacy of counting individual churches within a denomination as separate and distinct denominations.

Since the topic of this thread is Rick Warren, perhaps you could answer a question for us from your perspective as a Baptist. He has been associated with something called “Emerging Church.” If you know anything about this, could you please expound on it? I completely understand you are against Catholic doctrine and that is not the subject of this thread. I am sincerely wishing to get specific information on this church or movement since there are so many claims against it. One of those claims say the proponents of this thing (whatever it is) wishes to deconstruct the institutional church. If true, this would be a big no-no for Catholics (and I suspect for Baptists, too.)

 

[South_Bound]

Since the topic of this thread is Rick Warren, perhaps you could answer a question for us from your perspective as a Baptist. He has been associated with something called “Emerging Church.” If you know anything about this, could you please expound on it?

Yes. It’s an aberrant movement within the Church that borders on being outright heretical.

Among the problems with them is their subjective view of scripture (and, yes, I know you’re going to claim that’s because they don’t have a “Magisterium” to tell them what to think, but we don’t have one, either, and we don’t do that), their syncretism, their recasting God as their big ol’ cosmic buddy, and their incorporation of New Age beliefs, such as centering prayer.

I completely understand you are against Catholic doctrine and that is not the subject of this thread.

I agree. That’s why I wasn’t arguing against Catholic doctrine, but against your fellow Catholic’s lies about us and the unwillingness of any of the Catholics here to disapprove of his dishonesty.

I am sincerely wishing to get specific information on this church or movement since there are so many claims against it.

I think the “sincerely” ship sailed quite a while ago.

One of those claims say the proponents of this thing (whatever it is) wishes to deconstruct the institutional church. If true, this would be a big no-no for Catholics (and I suspect for Baptists, too.)

It is. They do not like us at all. If you’re really sincere, then you can check out a series of videos by Emergent leader, Rob Bell, in which he explains their beliefs and their criticism of Biblical Christianity (and, yes, I know you don’t believe we’re part of Biblical Christianity, but I really don’t care.)

They’re called the “Nooma” videos.

 

[Tigg]

Yes. It’s an aberrant movement within the Church that borders on being outright heretical.

Among the problems with them is their subjective view of scripture (and, yes, I know you’re going to claim that’s because they don’t have a “Magisterium” to tell them what to think, but we don’t have one, either, and we don’t do that), their syncretism, their recasting God as their big ol’ cosmic buddy, and their incorporation of New Age beliefs, such as centering prayer.

I agree. That’s why I wasn’t arguing against Catholic doctrine, but against your fellow Catholic’s lies about us and the unwillingness of any of the Catholics here to disapprove of his dishonesty.

I think the “sincerely” ship sailed quite a while ago.

It is. They do not like us at all. If you’re really sincere, then you can check out a series of videos by Emergent leader, Rob Bell, in which he explains their beliefs and their criticism of Biblical Christianity (and, yes, I know you don’t believe we’re part of Biblical Christianity, but I really don’t care.)

They’re called the “Nooma” videos.

Thank you - I do appreciate the information and just so you know, one of my best (male) buds is a dyed-in-the-wool Southern Baptist. We often see the same disturbing trends in the Christian churches today (that would include some Catholic parishes) and he is adamant, as am I, in pointing them out. Which is specifically (since I am Catholic) why I’m leery of Rick Warren.

 

[South_Bound]

Thank you - I do appreciate the information and just so you know, one of my best (male) buds is a dyed-in-the-wool Southern Baptist.

Right.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Yes. It’s an aberrant movement within the Church that borders on being outright heretical.

Among the problems with them is their subjective view of scripture (and, yes, I know you’re going to claim that’s because they don’t have a “Magisterium” to tell them what to think, but we don’t have one, either, and we don’t do that), their syncretism, their recasting God as their big ol’ cosmic buddy, and their incorporation of New Age beliefs, such as centering prayer.

So even though Rick is theologically studied in evangelical circles, you would classify him as independent? Is he connected to Rob Bell’s sect or are they distinct for you? Does Rick fall under the “non-denominational” label for you - which is all encompassing theologically, or separate, or are Rob and Rick on denomination or two?

I agree. That’s why I wasn’t arguing against Catholic doctrine, but against your fellow Catholic’s lies about us and the unwillingness of any of the Catholics here to disapprove of his dishonesty.

We don’t think he is being dishonest, but that the independence vs. interdependence vs. communion/fellowship is very loose and therefore they constitute different sects - unless you can prove otherwise, how else should we classify them?

It is. They do not like us at all. If you’re really sincere, then you can check out a series of videos by Emergent leader, Rob Bell, in which he explains their beliefs and their criticism of Biblical Christianity (and, yes, I know you don’t believe we’re part of Biblical Christianity, but I really don’t care.)

Would Rob say you are part of “Biblical Christianity”? If so, are you one fellowship with him or are you two separate?

They’re called the “Nooma” videos.

I’ll chk it out.

 

[South_Bound]

So even though Rick is theologically studied in evangelical circles, you would classify him as independent?

No, he’s a Southern Baptist.

Is he connected to Rob Bell’s sect or are they distinct for you?

First of all, I’m not the one who brought up the Emergent movement. Take that one up with your fellow Catholic.

Second, I only mentioned Rob Bell as an example of Emergent theology. I never made any connection between the two.

Does Rick fall under the “non-denominational” label for you

No. I’ve stated a couple of times now that he is a Baptist.

We don’t think he is being dishonest

Of course you know he’s lying, but Catholics practice a brand of taqiyya, so you approve.

Would Rob say you are part of “Biblical Christianity”? If so, are you one fellowship with him or are you two separate?

How can we be “one felloswhip”, when he’s not even a Christian?

Why would I care if a non-Christian thinks we’re not “Biblical Christianity”?

 

[Memaw]

This is a good example of the “Catholic taqiyya” I was talking about. The “30,000 denominations” lie has been debunked thoroughly, but Catholics have no problem telling the lie as long as it paints Protestants in a negative light.

But if Catholicism doesn’t have a problem with lying, why would obscenity be bad?

According to protestant information, its more like 40,000 different denominations. God Bless, Memaw

 

[South_Bound]

According to protestant information, its more like 40,000 different denominations. God Bless, Memaw

Catholic taqiyya strikes again.

 

[Memaw]

Catholic taqiyya strikes again.

I heard this on Marcus Grodi’s “Journey Home” program and he used to be a protestant minister. ask him. I think they go by who is registered for a Tax exempt status. God Bless, Memaw

 

[SyroMalankara]

Of course you know he’s lying, but Catholics practice a brand of taqiyya, so you approve.

Approve of what? This “taqiyya” you keep saying, is that you trying to tie us Catholics up with the “big, bad Muslims”? And that’s not insulting?

How can we be “one felloswhip”, when he’s not even a Christian?

Rob Bell isn’t “Christian”? How so? What category would you place him under on a chart of the world’s religions? If Rob isn’t Christian, is his gathering another denomination to add to the list?

Why would I care if a non-Christian thinks we’re not “Biblical Christianity”?

nooma.com/films/001-rain

Looks a little Christian to me, he’s mentioning the Bible, Jesus, etc. It’s not Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, or atheism…

 

[SyroMalankara]

By the way, I just looked up this “taqiyah” you keep saying and here’s the definition:

is a form of religious dissimulation,[1] or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution According to Shia Islam…

How exactly are Catholics doing this, when you aren’t capable of “persecution” and we aren’t denying our faith or committing illegal acts?