Rick Warren

[South_Bound]

Approve of what? This “taqiyya” you keep saying, is that you trying to tie us Catholics up with the “big, bad Muslims”? And that’s not insulting?

I never said anything about Muslims. Please try to keep up.

Rob Bell isn’t “Christian”? How so?

Based on the fact that he preaches another gospel.

Looks a little Christian to me

Then I’m sure you two will be very happy together.
"SyroMalankara:

And most sects say that about the other. So what do you classify him as? Definitely another denomination than you, but a new religion altogether?

No thank you. It’s pretty clear now that you’re just trolling. I answered Tigg’s questions and then yours in good faith, even though I knew it was going to end in another Protestant-bash. Sure, enough, it was a trick and I fell for it.

So, if either one of you have any more questions, you can use Google because I’m not going to indulge your trolling any longer. If you want to know more, Chris Rosebrough has done an extensive amount of criticism on Bell, his theology, the Emergent movement, and its theology.

I heard this on Marcus Grodi’s “Journey Home” program

Gee. Catholic taqiyya on a Catholic program? What are the odds?

Memaw:

Me thinks you just like to argue! God Bless, Memaw

And I think you just like to lie.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I never said anything about Muslims. Please try to keep up.

Ok bud, I bet you also can say Catholics commit a type of “jihad”… but you didn’t say anything about Muslims… technicalities…

Based on the fact that he preaches another gospel.

And most sects say that about the other. So what do you classify him as? Definitely another denomination than you, but a new religion altogether?

Then I’m sure you two will be very happy together.

He’s not Catholic yet, so unless we are drinking a beer and watching basketball… probably not.

Gee. Catholic taqiyya on a Catholic program? What are the odds?

There’s that non-Muslim Arabic word that only Muslim jurisprudence uses again.
What are you committing now, by your insinuation? Baptist praevaricarie?

No thank you. It’s pretty clear now that you’re just trolling. I answered Tigg’s questions and then yours in good faith, even though I knew it was going to end in another Protestant-bash. Sure, enough, it was a trick and I fell for it.

Oh… we’re trolling, not you.

So, if either one of you have any more questions, you can use Google because I’m not going to indulge your trolling any longer. If you want to know more, Chris Rosebrough has done an extensive amount of criticism on Bell, his theology, the Emergent movement, and its theology.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches have done an extensive criticism of protestantism and it’s spawns. See Peter Kreeft, Scott Hahn, Jason Stellman, Fr. Anthony Messah, Dn. Sabatino Carnazzo, and more for more information.

 

[Memaw]

The common Catholic lie is 30,000 and you said “tens of thousands”/

You’re the one who claimed there are “tens of thousands” of Christian denominations. Where’s your source?

Funny you should mention that. One of the reasons cited for the inaccuracy of the Catholic “30,000 denominations” lie is that churches are counted individually, and not as part of the denomination they’re a part of.

In this case, such a church would be one of many churches within just one denomination (in this case, Pentecostal Holiness).

OK. We’ll see about that by counting the number of your fellow Catholics who rebuke you for lying.

Figured that out all by yourself, did you?

Funny, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw you practicing Catholic taqiyya.

So, let me get this straight: you made the claim that there are “tens of thousands” of Christian denominations, but you need me to tell you how many there really are before you will know how you came up with the “tens of thousands” lie?

First of all, I’ve already addressed the fallacy of counting individual churches within a denomination as separate and distinct denominations.

Second, why should I give you a source when you won’t show the source you used to come up with the “tens of thousands” claim?

One would hope. But, unfortunately, Catholics practice a brand of taqiyya, so they’ll probably applaud you for lying about us.

Me thinks you just like to argue! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

(Attempting to bring this thread back to the original topic here…)

I believe you are very wise. As a convert you have found a precious pearl in the Church and it would be sensible to hold it tightly and let it grow to an entire treasure. There are well meaning but subtle innuendos in some of his articles and sometimes this is more dangerous than outright rejection of teaching. I remember many years ago the number of Catholics who were fooled by Jimmy Swaggert when the Catholic charismatic movement began to catch fire. It is most unfortunate that some Catholics do not recognize they have everything they might need to live a full spiritual life within the faith. We would be delighted to have Rick Warren convert, but I doubt that is his direction. Today in the Church we find dialogue with Muslims, Buddhists and Protestants, but the spirit of ecumenism does not mean we must risk and expose our pearls in order that they be taken from us.

AMEN, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Avdima]

You may think you have been there but you have never ‘done that’ or you wouldn’t have ever left. You evidently never truly understood the Catholic Church and her teachings. Maybe you focused to much on the sinners in the Church. But then we all have them. God Bless, Memaw

Maybe he/she did truly understand Catholic Church teachings and found them to be lacking. That same argument has been said by many a member of a faith group. i.e. If you truly understood will of Allah and the truth of Islam you would never leave it for the Pagan Christians! if your only felt the love of Jehovah you would still be in the kingdom hall! You never felt the burning of the bosom how can you turn your back on the Mormon Church? etc.

Claiming I left Catholicism because I didn’t understand Catholic teaching is very insulting.

Honestly, I love the way that every Catholic tells any ex-Catholic “Oh, you only left Catholicism because you’re such a moron you couldn’t possibly understand what we believe” but then turn around and insist they’re experts on Protestant beliefs.

I agree this is very bad argument, and very belittling.

 

[PRmerger]

Maybe he/she did truly understand Catholic Church teachings and found them to be lacking. That same argument has been said by many a member of a faith group. i.e. If you truly understood will of Allah and the truth of Islam you would never leave it for the Pagan Christians! if your only felt the love of Jehovah you would still be in the kingdom hall! You never felt the burning of the bosom how can you turn your back on the Mormon Church? etc.



I agree this is very bad argument, and very belittling.

The fact is, Avdima, none of the ex-Catholics who have posted on the CAFs have been able to articulate, even a little, a correct explication of Catholic teaching.

Not a one.

 

[johnnyc176]

(Attempting to bring this thread back to the original topic here…)

I believe you are very wise. As a convert you have found a precious pearl in the Church and it would be sensible to hold it tightly and let it grow to an entire treasure. There are well meaning but subtle innuendos in some of his articles and sometimes this is more dangerous than outright rejection of teaching. I remember many years ago the number of Catholics who were fooled by Jimmy Swaggert when the Catholic charismatic movement began to catch fire. It is most unfortunate that some Catholics do not recognize they have everything they might need to live a full spiritual life within the faith. We would be delighted to have Rick Warren convert, but I doubt that is his direction. Today in the Church we find dialogue with Muslims, Buddhists and Protestants, but the spirit of ecumenism does not mean we must risk and expose our pearls in order that they be taken from us.

Very well said.

 

[Memaw]

Maybe he/she did truly understand Catholic Church teachings and found them to be lacking. That same argument has been said by many a member of a faith group. i.e. If you truly understood will of Allah and the truth of Islam you would never leave it for the Pagan Christians! if your only felt the love of Jehovah you would still be in the kingdom hall! You never felt the burning of the bosom how can you turn your back on the Mormon Church? etc.



I agree this is very bad argument, and very belittling.

It’s not a bad argument, nor is it belittling! t’s the truth and the truth is never bad. There is nothing lacking in the Catholic Faith if one takes the time and the love to learn it truthfully. Some can claim they have the ‘truth’ but really do not have it in the fullness that Christ gave us. The Catholic Church does have the fullness of Christ’s Truth. But if one isn’t willing to study the Catholic Faith sincerely, then they can walk away never knowing what She really teaches. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Avdima]

It’s not a bad argument, nor is it belittling! t’s the truth and the truth is never bad. There is nothing lacking in the Catholic Faith if one takes the time and the love to learn it truthfully. Some can claim they have the ‘truth’ but really do not have it in the fullness that Christ gave us. The Catholic Church does have the fullness of Christ’s Truth. But if one isn’t willing to study the Catholic Faith sincerely, then they can walk away never knowing what She really teaches. God Bless, Memaw

Again the same argument has been said by many a religion.

There is nothing lacking in the Mormon Faith if one takes the time and the love to learn it truthfully. Some can claim they have the ‘truth’ but really do not have it in the fullness that Christ gave us. The Mormon Church does have the fullness of Christ’s Truth. But if one isn’t willing to study the Mormon Faith sincerely, then they can walk away never knowing what She really teaches.

Substitute Mormon with Baptist, Pentecostal, Quaker, SDA, Jehovah Witness, Reformed, Lutheran, Orthodox, etc.

 

[Memaw]

Again the same argument has been said by many a religion.

There is nothing lacking in the Mormon Faith if one takes the time and the love to learn it truthfully. Some can claim they have the ‘truth’ but really do not have it in the fullness that Christ gave us. The Mormon Church does have the fullness of Christ’s Truth. But if one isn’t willing to study the Mormon Faith sincerely, then they can walk away never knowing what She really teaches.

Substitute Mormon with Baptist, Pentecostal, Quaker, SDA, Jehovah Witness, Reformed, Lutheran, Orthodox, etc.

There can only be ONE TRUE Church founded by Jesus Christ and that is the oldest Christian Church in the world. The Catholic Church. Every other one is an off shoot in one way or another. Even many protestant denominations agree they disagree. So how can you say they all have the truth. Mormons do not even come near believing what the Catholic Church does neither do the Jehovah Witness, I have talked to many of them. They are not actually Christian . If you have studied them fully, you would know that. God Bless, Memaw

 

[cmodrmac]

" There is no mention of doctrine, no real mention of conversion except in the limited sense of becoming more “caring”, to all"

I agree with the above comment-it is important for the Priest to teach the faith -not overly spend time on vexing social issues-Teaching the faith is the message of Jesus Christ -not rules and regulations-it is hard to get Episcopal clergy away from social issues and more focused on the gospel-

 

[cmodrmac]

Pastor Rick views the Church as all believers - “our Pope” is the leader of an important element of the Church-not the leader of all-it is natural for him to use the term “our”

he gets the meaning of the holy apostolic church and clearly is spirit filled

 

[manualman]

Well the truth, of course, is that Jesus established the Church and wills for all his people to be a part of it. It’s only charitable for us catholics to assume that anybody who left did so without realizing what he left behind. Otherwise we’d have to assume that you’re absolutely demonic, no? We don’t think that!

But from the perspective of a protestant, the above all sounds terribly smug. It’s absurd, but such is human nature that if somebody hands you a billion dollars, it doesn’t take long before you start feeling pretty smug about how well off you are. As if you earned it somehow! We catholics do need to do a better job of making sure that people see the joy we hold for the Grace we’ve received, not a smugness about how that Grace has made us “better” than them. One sinner’s about the same as another to God, after all.