"Right hand possessions" vs. Adultery in Islam

[planten]

Probably because God does not approve of slavery and as such does not legislate it. Giving us the commandment “Thou shalt not commit adultery” and creating marriage between one man and one woman as He did with Adam and Eve is sufficient for us to understand that actions such as having sex with captive women is wrong.

** I am interested in knowing if there is anything in the BibleOt or Nt about slave girls and if Jesus said anything about that. If there is nothing then discussion cannot continue. Then Nothing is wrong**.

Feel free to comment on Mosaic Law regarding this topic. I have no information on that. Perhaps it was acceptable then, perhaps not. Under Mosaic Law divorce was permissable/tolerated for a time - legislated by men NOT God. Jesus explained that divorce is not created by God. Muhammad ignored that teaching of Jesus as well

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**You have no information then please do not take up this subject. First learn from your own religion, what is the teaching in direct words. Then follow that or bring it up. if there is nothing there then it useless to make noise.

Divorce was very much allowed in Mosaic law. it is also allow in the BibleNT under certain conditions. It is not totally banned. You should know it and please do not deny it.

In Islam also it is the worst thing that is permitted.

Divorce is a reality and necessity. You people have taken a very harsh stand against divorce quite un-necessarily. Jesus did not teach that.**

My point is that the laws surrounding sex with captive women are MAN-MADE Laws - NOT laws given to us by God

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**We Muslims do not follow man made laws. But you have to do that since you had abondoned the previous sacred law of Moses a.s. then you had to invent the divorce too and so many other bad things.

Sex with any woman other than wife should be wrong. So I would ask you again about Jacob having sex with the servants was adultery or not? And he produced many children too. What would be the status of those children of Jacob??**

P.S. Planten - I’m still waiting for your response in the other thread about why you don’t hate St. Peter, St. John and the rest of the apostles as you hate St. Paul.

Sorry, i do not go near the Devil. I do not hate any one. My formula is "Love for all.hatred for none."

 

[Jay53]

** I am interested in knowing if there is anything in the BibleOt or Nt about slave girls and if Jesus said anything about that. If there is nothing then discussion cannot continue. Then Nothing is wrong**.

Yes, Jesus said “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”
If one truly follows this, there would be no slavery or slave girls.

And yes, the discussion can continue, because we are discussing the Quran, not the Bible.

. **You have no information then please do not take up this subject. First learn from your own religion, what is the teaching in direct words. Then follow that or bring it up. if there is nothing there then it useless to make noise.

I know my religion. Slavery is wrong. Sex outside of wedlock is wrong. Simple enough. My question is about the Quran and the explicit permission from God to have sex outside of marriage.**

Divorce was very much allowed in Mosaic law. it is also allow in the BibleNT under certain conditions. It is not totally banned. You should know it and please do not deny it.

In Islam also it is the worst thing that is permitted.

Divorce is a reality and necessity. You people have taken a very harsh stand against divorce quite un-necessarily. Jesus did not teach that.

Yes Jesus did teach that. Did you not bother to read my post? Jesus said “What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” (Mark 10:9) He said this directly with regard to divorce. What else do you take this to mean?

. **We Muslims do not follow man made laws. But you have to do that since you had abondoned the previous sacred law of Moses a.s. then you had to invent the divorce too and so many other bad things.

Sex with any woman other than wife should be wrong. So I would ask you again about Jacob having sex with the servants was adultery or not? And he produced many children too. What would be the status of those children of Jacob??

This has nothing to do with the Quran. **

**Sorry, i do not go near the Devil. I do not hate any one. My formula is “Love for all.hatred for none.”

Then why do you call St. Paul a fraud and say that he usurped the teachings of Jesus and you do not say this about St. Peter, St. John or the rest of the apostles who were teaching the exact same thing as St. Paul, celebrating the Eucharist as Jesus taught, etc. Are they all frauds and usurpers too?**

 

[planten]

**Jay, You say sex outside of marriage is adultery. But you are not ready to speak about the acts of Jacob. Why is that?. You should call him an adulterer as per your own rule easily. Leave the Quran alone. Look after your own quran first.

Your NT has no news about slave girls. So you should keep quiet on that subject because your sacred book is quiet. It is simple reason.

Jesus said that divorce is not allowed except in serious case of bad behaviour (Something like that). Jesus said there should be no divorce except for so and so reason… Why don’t you read that also? it is a good thing that what God has joined should not be (easily) separated. We follow that too. Jesus said the right thing. But you are ignoring that Jesus (Like Moses and Muhammad) also allowed the divorce in some cases, even though he did not like that.

Please come to the point. Do not wander on the periphery.**

 

[Jay53]

**Jay, You say sex outside of marriage is adultery. But you are not ready to speak about the acts of Jacob. Why is that?. You should call him an adulterer as per your own rule easily. Leave the Quran alone. Look after your own quran first.

Your NT has no news about slave girls. So you should keep quiet on that subject because your sacred book is quiet. It is simple reason.

Jesus said that divorce is not allowed except in serious case of bad behaviour (Something like that). Jesus said there should be no divorce except for so and so reason… Why don’t you read that also? it is a good thing that what God has joined should not be (easily) separated. We follow that too. Jesus said the right thing. But you are ignoring that Jesus (Like Moses and Muhammad) also allowed the divorce in some cases, even though he did not like that.

Please come to the point. Do not wander on the periphery.**

Planten, if you are not going to stay generally on topic, then please don’t post. I don’t want to speak about Jacob, because this thread is not about Jacob. Sex outside of wedlock is not always adultery - it could be fornication if the parties are not married in the first place. Maybe Jacob did commit adultery - that has nothing to do with the verse in the Quran. Why should I “leave the Quran alone”. That’s the whole topic of the thread!!!

I will comment on the divorce issue, however, since it seems relevant in that Islam seems to contradict Jesus in this regard as well.

Here is what Jesus said regarding divorce:

Matthew 5:31-32
“It was said, moreover, ‘Whoever puts away his wife, let him give her a written notice of dismissal’ But I say to you, that everyone who puts away his wife, save on account of immorality, causes her to commit adultery: and he who marries a woman who has been put away commits adultery.”

Also:
Mark 10:11-12
And he said to them, “Whoever puts away his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if the wife puts away her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Are you asserting that divorce is only permissable in Islam when someone has been immoral/committed adultery? I was not aware of that being the case. If Muslims have as strict of rules with regard to marriage and divorce as Catholics, then that would be something our faiths have in common. But according to many of your previous posts, I was under the impression that it is not.

it is a good thing that what God has joined should not be (easily) separated.

And regarding this part of your post, God did not say it should not be “easily” separated. God said “What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” There is no “easily” in that. That is why Catholics do not believe in divorce - that is men tearing asunder what God has joined. Now, if a marriage has been annulled, that is a different story - that is when it has been found that God did not join the husband and wife in marriage in the first place. Please note that if an annullment is not granted by the Church, but a couple has been divorced civilly, they may not get remarried without committing a grave sin because they are still married to each other in the eyes of God.

Similarly, if a slave woman was married previously in enemy territory to a non-Muslim, and is then captured alone, i.e. without her husband, **it is not permissible for any Muslim to have relations with her until her previous marriage is nullified, and that is done by bringing her to an Islamic country and making her the legal possession of a Muslim. **Bringing her into Islamic territory necessitates the rendering of her previous marriage as null and void by Islamic law because with her husband in enemy territory and she in Islamic territory, it becomes virtually impossible for them to meet and live as man and wife.

The above quote is from my OP from the link posted there (emphasis mine). According to this, Islam permits Muslims to nullify or “put asunder” marriages which God has joined for non-Muslims. How does this not violate Jesus’ teachings?

My topic and question in this thread is about why Muslims believe that God explicitly gave permission for men to commit adultery with captive women. I believe I have come to the point - you are the one “wandering on the periphery” worrying about Jacob and wanting me to “leave the Quran alone”. :tsktsk: Please reread my original post if necessary.