Right or wrong: A gay-pride march of homosexuals who avowedly never engage in sexual acts?

[MariaGorettiGrl]

Seems … cruel … to punish me with eternal hellfire for … just loving someone.

What about pedophiles? Seems cruel to punish them just for loving someone who is still a child.

What about rapists? Seems cruel to punish them just for loving to have control over someone.

People’s “love” isn’t always healthy. Just because someone feels attracted to something doesn’t mean they have any right to act on that attraction.

What if we all acted on our attractions? Haven’t you ever wanted something you couldn’t afford? Why would stealing it be wrong? You really want that thing, so who’s to say you shouldn’t have it? We are all called to control our behavior, despite what we may feel. This is not just a religious call, but a societal call. We all feel attracted to something we shouldn’t have sometimes. It’s called temptation. We, as responsible people, are required to use self control.

 

[blessedtoo]

Oh, it does. Me.

I guess God’s going to send me to hell, then, right? Heh. Well, I’m a pretty nice person. Seems … cruel … to punish me with eternal hellfire for … just loving someone.

But I guess that’s a big part of why I don’t believe in a God to begin with. It just doesn’t make sense to call a being who would do that good.

Exalt,
you’ve really answered your own question, as you usually do when this topic is discussed. In YOUR opinion, YOUR God would not have rules that might prohibit certain types of behavior. In YOUR opinion, that’s just cruel. YOU are a good person and if this so called God can’t see that, then He is clearly wrong or just plain doesn’t exist.

The truth of God is not abrogated by our arrogant and exalted human notions of morality. Perhaps you believe your values are far superior to God’s. If so, then you have clearly made a decision. You would not wish to spend eternity with this God who you view as cruel. So He exacts no punishment on you. You have simply made a choice.

 

[Smber2c]

If on the otherhand a group of chaste people suffering from SSA wanted to have a parade, not to honor homosexuality, but to show others with the disorder that it can be resisted, I think that would be ok. In fact I would be a big supporter of something like that. I also fear that such a parade would be heavily protested by the gay community.

I thought the exact same thing on reading this thread. It would be like a group of AA members marching through town saying, “Drinking is problematic for me, so I choose not to. It can be done, look at all of us who made this wonderful decision.”

I think if would be an incredible witness to the world to see dozens or hundreds of men and women walking the street saying, “I suffer from SSA and thus I’ve decided to be chaste. It isn’t easy, but I’m not an animal, I’m a person and God gives me the ability to control my passions and I direct them in obedience with His will.”

 

[Smber2c]

Exalt,
you’ve really answered your own question, as you usually do when this topic is discussed. In YOUR opinion, YOUR God would not have rules that might prohibit certain types of behavior. In YOUR opinion, that’s just cruel. YOU are a good person and if this so called God can’t see that, then He is clearly wrong or just plain doesn’t exist.

The truth of God is not abrogated by our arrogant and exalted human notions of morality. Perhaps you believe your values are far superior to God’s. If so, then you have clearly made a decision. You would not wish to spend eternity with this God who you view as cruel. So He exacts no punishment on you. You have simply made a choice.

Blessedtoo, you’re completely correct. I’ve talked with my own father reguarding things like contraception, abortion, and (of all things for a person raised Catholic) reincarnation. He’s claimed that if Heaven doesn’t think these are acceptable then too bad cause he knows they are okay and he’s also a good person who wouldn’t be condemed to hell, so he’ll be a dissenter in Heaven.

It scares me when he gets like that. I usually respond explaining that we’re not entitled to Heaven. Heaven is God’s gift and it can only be Heaven if every single person there is in complete agreement and obedience to God’s will.
I usually use myself and abortion as an example and state, "I feel quite certain that abortion is sinful and never acceptable. However, if when I died God said, “John, you’ve been a humble and obedient servant and you can come into heaven but only after this one last thing is resolved…abortion…it’s actually good, it gets people here faster and with more certainty.” If that were God’s true law, then I would have to surrender to his will. Refusing to surrender an opinion in conflict with God’s law at the Pearly gates means that I can’t enter…and there’s only one other place Hell.
How could a ‘good person’ go there? Simple they think like Satan, that they are better than God. (be it they are as an individual, their mind, their opinions, their morals, or anything)

 

[blessedtoo]

I think if would be an incredible witness to the world to see dozens or hundreds of men and women walking the street saying, “I suffer from SSA and thus I’ve decided to be chaste. It isn’t easy, but I’m not an animal, I’m a person and God gives me the ability to control my passions and I direct them in obedience with His will.”

Even more interesting would be the response such a group might receive from the organizers of the gay pride parades. How friendly or welcoming do you think the naked “dykes on bikes” would be if their SSA sisters wanted to march in honor of their chastity?

 

[KofC660]

Here’s a question:

Should alcoholics have a pride parade?

If not, why not?

After you give an answer, replace “alcoholics” with “homosexuals”, “alcohol” with “homosexuality”, and there’s your answer as to why homosexuals shouldn’t have a pride parade.

 

[Smber2c]

Here’s a question:
Should alcoholics have a pride parade?
If not, why not?
After you give an answer, replace “alcoholics” with “homosexuals”, “alcohol” with “homosexuality”, and there’s your answer as to why homosexuals shouldn’t have a pride parade.

Should alcoholics have a pride parade?
No, if they are saying that being an alcoholic is a good thing.
Yes, if they are recovering alcoholics warning people of the dangers of their addiction and are recruiting current alcoholics to join in their fight to resist their addiction.

If not, why not?
B/c being an alcoholic isn’t a good thing.

Replace 'alcoholic with ‘homosexual’ and there’s the answer:
No, if they are saying that being an homosexual is a good thing.
Yes, if they are recovering homosexuals warning people of the dangers of their addiction and are recruiting current homosexuals to join in their fight to resist their addiction.

Okay so the process may need some minor editing, but I think you are right, it does provide the answer.

 

[brotherjoe]

Oh, it does. Me.

I guess God’s going to send me to hell, then, right? Heh. Well, I’m a pretty nice person. Seems … cruel … to punish me with eternal hellfire for … just loving someone.

But I guess that’s a big part of why I don’t believe in a God to begin with. It just doesn’t make sense to call a being who would do that good.

Exalt:

A suggestion: If you cannot believe in a Hell, then believe in Heaven. If you cannot believe in a God who judges, then believe in a God who forgives (In any event it is more catholic to believe in an all-good God who is all-forgiving than to either believe in a god who is bad or doesn’t exist).

 

[Bob_Byrnes]

Oh, it does. Me.

I guess God’s going to send me to hell, then, right? Heh. Well, I’m a pretty nice person. Seems … cruel … to punish me with eternal hellfire for … just loving someone.

But I guess that’s a big part of why I don’t believe in a God to begin with. It just doesn’t make sense to call a being who would do that good.

Your’e talking to too many people who just live by “rules”. Conscience is paramount. I’m sure your conscience tells you that you are living a good, loving and productive life. Many will tell you that your conscience is “misinformed”. I beg to differ.
The Church has been messing with people’s minds (especially sexually) since time immemorial. My God loves you and has no problem with your lifestyle. Some “rules” are just wrong !!!

 

[fix]

Your’e talking to too many people who just live by “rules”. Conscience is paramount. I’m sure your conscience tells you that you are living a good, loving and productive life. Many will tell you that your conscience is “misinformed”. I beg to differ.
The Church has been messing with people’s minds (especially sexually) since time immemorial. My God loves you and has no problem with your lifestyle. Some “rules” are just wrong !!!

Truth is paramount. If conscience were paramount then we all would be justified by our subjective conscience. That would mean all manner of activity would be acceptable.

 

[Smber2c]

**My God **loves you and has no problem with your lifestyle.

Emphasis Added

There is no such thing as a “My God”, “Your God”, or "His/Her God’; only “The God”. The God of Truth. The God of Life. The God of Love.

Reinventing God is worse than reinventing the wheel. When we reinvent the wheel we’ve at least got something useful…when we reinvent God, we have a false immitation of something that was never ‘invented’ in the first place.

God’s truth is a revealed truth. Through prophets and mystics, through God’s appointed Church, and especially through God’s own Son. To claim oneself superiour to all of the above is likely easy for athiests, but should be clearly problematic for Catholics, and really for any other brand of Christian as well.

 

[Bob_Byrnes]

Truth is paramount. If conscience were paramount then we all would be justified by our subjective conscience. That would mean all manner of activity would be acceptable.

Truth is something we seek, not something we have. If you have the truth, your’e way ahead of most of us.

 

[blessedtoo]

Your’e talking to too many people who just live by “rules”.

Well, that would be a lot of people since all three major religions (Christian, Jewish and Islam) have “rules” prohibiting homosexual behavior.

Conscience is paramount. I’m sure your conscience tells you that you are living a good, loving and productive life.

My conscience told me is was okey dokey to take drugs and drink alcohol until I couldn’t stand upright. Everyone else had the problem with their silly “rules”. My sister’s conscience told her it was okey dokey for her to beat her small child. After all, he misbehaved and it was no one’s business how she disciplined. I’m sure many of the priests involved in the scandals heard their consciences tell them that molesting teenage boys was just fine - after all, celibacy is just dopey, right? Why bother with rules of any kind? Let’s all do 120 miles an hour on the highway, sleep with out pets, and rob banks for income.

Many will tell you that your conscience is “misinformed”. I beg to differ.

Well, of course you would. It’s important to prove all the major religions (not to mention biology and natural law!) wrong in order to prove yourself right. Good luck with that!

The Church has been messing with people’s minds (especially sexually) since time immemorial. My God loves you and has no problem with your lifestyle. Some “rules” are just wrong !!!

You may have already met your god looking back at you from the mirror.

 

[fix]

Truth is something we seek, not something we have. If you have the truth, your’e way ahead of most of us.

So, we may seek truth, but never find truth?

Truth is a person.

If we can never know truth, we would all be sociopaths.

 

[Bob_Byrnes]

Well, that would be a lot of people since all three major religions (Christian, Jewish and Islam) have “rules” prohibiting homosexual behavior.

That doesn’t make them right.

 

[Smber2c]

Truth is something we seek, not something we have. If you have the truth, your’e way ahead of most of us.

But do you believe the Truth you seek really exists? If so, do you really expect that as it is found none of it will require you to adjust how you are currently living?

The majority of today’s society errantly thinks that truth is relative. Homosexual behavior can be accpetable to Bob and unacceptable to Sally and they are both correct.

It would be comical if it weren’t so serious.
I can talk to a hundred different people, and they would all claim that they have the 1 perfectly formed conscious in the world. Their idea of God is actually who God really is and while the other 6 billion people of Earth have obviously been brain washed, they are perfectly objective and are of course correct.

Humility and Obedience. 2 of the greatest tools we can discover in this search for Truth.

 

[fix]

]

That doesn’t make them right.

Well, how do we determine what is right?

 

[dbaseII]

“Gay” typically refers to the lifestyle of promiscuous sex and not the the direction someone’s desires go in. Therefore with a homosexual who is chaste and Catholic, there is no “gay pride”.

As my spiritual advisor states, there is a big difference between “gay” and “homosexual”.

 

[Smber2c]

“Gay” typically refers to the lifestyle of promiscuous sex and not the the direction someone’s desires go in. Therefore with a homosexual who is chaste and Catholic, there is no “gay pride”.

As my spiritual advisor states, there is a big difference between “gay” and “homosexual”.

I don’t think I’ve encountered similar sentiments in most homosexuals or in most Catholics that I’ve met.

Interesting definition, but I don’t think most would agree, making the def. useless.

 

[emily47017]

i for one like the idea.

Even more interesting would be the response such a group might receive from the organizers of the gay pride parades.

yes, this is probably the biggest obstacle. if i were presenting the idea to them, i would ask them to consider that the parade is about joy – both in who we are and how we live. an ex-gay or chaste-gay contingent would also be expressing joy in who we are and how we’ve chosen to live. i would ask them not to be afraid of different “styles of living”, just as they ask the rest of the country not to fear their own identity or style of living.

such a contingent must not behave itself in the manner of parade protesters, i.e. “repent!” that’s not going to win any friends or converts.

(In any event it is more catholic to believe in an all-good God who is all-forgiving than to either believe in a god who is bad or doesn’t exist).

brother joe, this is so beautiful! i think this idea deserves its own thread… so i started one. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=168235