RIP Billy Graham

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Unless to compare Muslims with very careless and indifferent Christians, then-Yes!
It seems to me that there are Muslims who unconsciously follow Christ in one way or another.
You cannot compare, for example, a God-fearing woman who regularly prays, lives in humility, and brings up children, and a woman who has been baptized in the childhood and lives in fornication, drunkenness, constant parties, without the fear of God.
It is impossible to compare a man who is a responsible family man who regularly prays and nurtures children in the fear of God , and a man who behaves like a teen frivolous young man all his life living in sin.
In this case, I think it is possible to apply - a better God-Fearing Muslim than a baptized pagan.
We are saved through Christ, but there are those who have not heard about him but unconsciously in one way or another followed him.
 
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I prefer not to talk about hypothetical people who may or may not exist in any given context. I am specifically referring to the application of belief systems. Idealogical perhaps. You said it is better to be protestant, probably specifically baptist, than a name only Catholic whore, which may be true, under the assumption I guess that protestants donā€™t sin. However I would simply prefer ideally muslim if the task were the greater good to society outside the Catholic Church.
 
lilypadrees said:
steve-b, I believe Iā€™ve made myself clear.

I did NOT say that Jesus started the Southern Baptist church. I said that Rev Graham was called by God to remain a Protestant preacher. He wasnā€™t called to convert and become Catholic. God did, however, give him the grace to understand our Catholic beliefs.

Whether you realize it or not, God uses people where they are. He uses Catholics in the Catholic Church. He uses Protestants in their own churches. God used Billy Graham where he was - a Southern Baptist in the Southern Baptist church. The man had a sincere love of God and spent the majority of his life spreading His Message to the lost. God used him to bring many of the lost to Him just as He used Fulton Sheen to reach the lost. Each in his own way spread Godā€™s Message to the world.

Catholic or Protestant, as Christians, we are all called to share the Gospel with those we meet. Each of us does so in his or her own way using the gifts God gave us.

Billy Graham served the Lord well. And I am sure that Jesus said, ā€œWell done, good and faithful servant. Enter now into the joy of your Master.ā€

His body is now being returned to NC for a private family funeral tomorrow. But his soul now resides with our Lord and Savior.

God love him.
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Jesus used people like the Good Thief and the woman caught in adultery.

He emphatically did NOT call them to remain just as they were when He first encountered them, but to know and repent of their errros.

He expected them, Billy Graham and all of us to come to the fullness of truth, which subsists in the Catholic Church. If BG is saved, and others tbrough his efforts, it is in spite of rather than because of their not being Catholic.

A great man in many ways, who could have been greater still with the additional graces of Catholic understanding and the Catholic sacraments.
 
I do not know the subtleties of Billy Grahamā€™s anti-Catholicism, but it seems to me that his phenomenon has pushed the competitive dynamics of different faiths.
The success of one denomination leads to mobilization and counter-charisma of another denomination.
In Russia there is an ardent atheist-intellectual, critic of Russian Orthodoxy - Alexander Nevzorov.
Thanks to this atheist in Orthodoxy began to at least rethink some of the abuses and the flaws.
The history knows even atheists and the people of other religions whŠ¾ are remembered with respect.
Among them are courageous journalists and public figures.
Billy Grahamā€™s rating was higher than that of the American presidents, that says something.
 
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Billy Grahamā€™s rating (whatever that is) may have been higher than American presidents, which speaks loudly about America at face value. Not being American I do not understand either. All I see is RIP Billy Graham my friend, however you do still have a president and at least four ex-presidents, on the other hand you no longer have a southern baptist spokesman who can share with the Kings.
 
lilypadrees said:
I said that Rev Graham was called by God to remain a Protestant preacher. He wasnā€™t called to convert and become Catholic.
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This is not what the Catholic Church professes. All men are called to the unity of Holy Eucharist.
Billy Graham served the Lord well. And I am sure that Jesus said, ā€œWell done, good and faithful servant. Enter now into the joy of your Master.ā€ His body is now being returned to NC for a private family funeral tomorrow. But his soul now resides with our Lord and Savior.
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Its fine if you want to cananize him a Saint for your private intentions. But we do not know the judgment of the Lord regarding him.

I personally hope and believe he is with our Lordā€™s! Yet I do not subscribe to the notion that God called him to remain a Southern Baptist. That would undermine the Teachings of our faith.
 
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rcwitness said:
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lilypadrees:
I said that Rev Graham was called by God to remain a Protestant preacher. He wasnā€™t called to convert and become Catholic.
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This is not what the Catholic Church professes. All men are called to the unity of Holy Eucharist.
Billy Graham served the Lord well. And I am sure that Jesus said, ā€œWell done, good and faithful servant. Enter now into the joy of your Master.ā€ His body is now being returned to NC for a private family funeral tomorrow. But his soul now resides with our Lord and Savior.
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Its fine if you want to cananize him a Saint for your private intentions. But we do not know the judgment of the Lord regarding him.

I personally hope and believe he is with our Lordā€™s! Yet I do not subscribe to the notion that God called him to remain a Southern Baptist. That would undermine the Teachings of our faith.
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Canā€™t see the forest for the trees?
 
Gentleman, youā€™re derailing the thread again. Thereā€™s a separate thread for this argument.
 
I agree, and perhaps to take it a tad further, we maybe should worry less about determining the disposition of someone elseā€™s soul, and worry more about our own.
 
<< we maybe should worry less about determining the disposition of someone elseā€™s soul, and worry more about our own.>>

ā€œThe LORD knows them who are his own. Let every one who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.ā€. (2 Timothy 2)

Mind your own responsibilities. God will mind His.
 
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rcwitness said:
Its fine if you want to cananize him a Saint for your private intentions. But we do not know the judgment of the Lord regarding him.
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I havenā€™t canonized him anything. But I do believe he did Godā€™s Will and that he was a very good man. You seem to think that only Catholics can do His Will. So show us where God Himself asked Billy Graham to convert and Billy Grahamā€™s refusal.

Why are you unable to accept that there are devout Christians who arenā€™t Catholic who do Godā€™s Will? God doesnā€™t ask everyone to convert. Yes, He wants us to be One as Jesus and the Father are One. But that doesnā€™t mean He has touched everyoneā€™s heart and said, ā€œYou can only belong to Me if you become Catholic.ā€ God wants us all to come to His Son. For only through the Son can we come to the Father.

But there will be no labels in Heaven. Heā€™s not going to refuse anyone entry because they were Catholic or Protestant. Heā€™s going to look at each personā€™s heart and life and what each of us did with what He gave us. Did we fulfill the individual missions He gave us? Did we reflect Christ in our lives, in our daily duties, and to all we met each day we walked this earth? Or did we live only for ourselves and for the world?

Well, Billy Grahamā€™s mission was to serve Christ and to bring the lost to Him. He served the Lord well and I believe he is in Heaven right now. Try to find scandal on Billy Graham. You wonā€™t find any. He life was his Lord and his family.
 
Look, I believe you started another thread the other day to continue this discussion. Could you please continue it there? This going back and forth is very confusing since I thought we were in the other thread when I made my previous response.

So please continue and keep the discussion in the other thread.

Thank you.
 
For those who wish to watch, the Rev Billy Grahamā€™s Memorial Service now airing on TBN.
 
Lenten_ashes1 said:
He helped change many lives by preaching Jesus.

And unlike many other protestant pastors, he was Catholic friendly. I respect him immensely. May God grant him eternal rest
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Amen to all of the above. BTW in his earlier career, he was not as Catholic friendly, although he never bashed Catholics to my knowledge. The early crusades included some literature that was not that Catholic compatible. Those portions were removed in his later career. (I read this in a book by an anti-Catholic fundamentalist, who lamented this change). In the early crusades they included only Protestant churches as suggested places where believers might follow up. Later on, they included local Catholic churches too.

He personified the evangelism described by C. S. Lewis in Mere Christianity: he saw his job as bringing people from the outside into the building; but recognized this is only the first step, they must later settle down into one of the apartments.
 
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