Rising Protestant tide sweeps Catholic Brazil

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The way I understand it the vast majority of these people leaving are the poorer ones.

I am asking in all sincerity for us to put our thinking caps on and think about the root cause of this problem and what factors were in play that may help us to learn a lesson about this.

Am I right about liberation theology being a factor here?

Lets find out what went way wrong.
 
Contarini said:
Actually, I believe that numbers of adherents for religions are usually based on self-reporting, and the Catholic Church reports the number of baptisms.
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Parishes are required to give a census of those who are registerd. Baptisms are also noted.
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contarini:
the point remains–many people who are “still Catholic” officially are uncatechized and easy prey for proselytizers.
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I agree. And the same is true for Protestants as well.
 
GraceSeeker
Funny how, of all the groups within Christ’s body, it is only the Catholics who think that everybody “without exception” is to belong to their particular brand of Christianity. When you describe it like that, Catholicism sounds more like a cult than the Church that Jesus founded.
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Catholicism is not a “brand” of Christianity. It is Christianity. It is the Church Jesus founded. All others are offshoots started by men. All of the others are imitations with only part of the truth of God’s revelation to his Church. Reminds me of the Bible verse about how the thieves and robbers tried to climb in, in ‘another way’.

Ronaldo needs to be catechized and returned to the Church.
 
Hellisreal said:
Why cant we talk about the root cause of the problem here?

Is it poor cathesis, or are the priests there giving the flock a more liberation theology or is it the Jesuits again?

Lets get to the Cause.
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I left the Catholic Church because of all of the Ultra-Conservative nonsense. The cause of so many people leaving the Roman Church is the stifling of the Spirit of God.
I was beaten into believing that Mary(although she is the God -Bearer) was human. She is not, nor can ever be, equal to the Lord Jesus.

The bells and whistles mean nothing. The church is the Body of Christ. Not a Pope , a Bishop, or Priest. I’ve seen very a conservative Priest eat a steak dinner during a Friday in Lent.

The scandles, the treachery by many in the clergy did it for me.
My wife continues to be Catholic, I am taking the children to Protestant services to really worship God.
Peace in the Lord Jesus!
 
sosayi1960 said:
I left the Catholic Church because of all of the Ultra-Conservative nonsense. The cause of so many people leaving the Roman Church is the stifling of the Spirit of God.
I was beaten into believing that Mary(although she is the God -Bearer) was human. She is not, nor can ever be, equal to the Lord Jesus.

The bells and whistles mean nothing. The church is the Body of Christ. Not a Pope , a Bishop, or Priest. I’ve seen very a conservative Priest eat a steak dinner during a Friday in Lent.

The scandles, the treachery by many in the clergy did it for me.
My wife continues to be Catholic, I am taking the children to Protestant services to really worship God.
Peace in the Lord Jesus!
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If you left the Catholic Church for any other reason than your believing in your heart that it was God’s will for you, then you should return to her today. God bless.

BTW, in Catholic terminology, “Roman Church” refers to the Diocese of Rome. It’s generally polite to speak of others by how they like to be called unless to do so would be somehow untrue.

If it was God that invited you to the Catholic Church, why should you let a priest make you leave?

I am sure that one can “really worship God” at a Catholic church, just as one may at a non-Catholic congregation. I’ve been to both kinds. I hope you give your children a choice.
 
there are a lot of ex catholic that like to critize the roman catholic church but thank god that there are a lot of protestant converts that defend it so well. thank scott hahn , david currie you make me feel so good been a cradle catholic.
Our Lady of Guadalupe

God of power and mercy, you blessed the Americas at Tepeyac with the presence of the Virgin Mary of Guadalupe. May her prayers help all men and women to accept each other as brothers and sisters. Through your justice present in our heats, may your peace reign in the world. We ask this through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
 
Many of these Ex-Catholics don’t know that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist, His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. They leave the Church, they can’t received the Lord anymore unless they come home.

CCC:

1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. “The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession.”

Like I said, they don’t know what they are MISSING because many of these Penecostal lack no REAL PRESENCE of Jesus Christ. It’s a sad fact.
 
sosayi1960 said:
I left the Catholic Church because of all of the Ultra-Conservative nonsense. The cause of so many people leaving the Roman Church is the stifling of the Spirit of God.
I was beaten into believing that Mary(although she is the God -Bearer) was human. She is not, nor can ever be, equal to the Lord Jesus.
The bells and whistles mean nothing. The church is the Body of Christ. Not a Pope , a Bishop, or Priest. I’ve seen very a conservative Priest eat a steak dinner during a Friday in Lent.

The scandles, the treachery by many in the clergy did it for me.
My wife continues to be Catholic, I am taking the children to Protestant services to really worship God.
Peace in the Lord Jesus!
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Mary was human, so you were taught right.

Catholics do not believe Mary is equal to the Lord Jesus.

That charge is a blatant lie.

You needed a better cathesis. Yours was a miserable failure.
 
sosayi1960 said:
I left the Catholic Church because of all of the Ultra-Conservative nonsense. The cause of so many people leaving the Roman Church is the stifling of the Spirit of God.
I was beaten into believing that Mary(although she is the God -Bearer) was human. She is not, nor can ever be, equal to the Lord Jesus.
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You are absolutely right, and Catholics don’t believe anything different than what you believe and said above. 🙂
sosayi1960 said:
The church is the Body of Christ. Not a Pope , a Bishop, or Priest.
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You are right but not quite right 🙂 - we are also part of the Church.
sosayi1960 said:
I’ve seen very a conservative Priest eat a steak dinner during a Friday in Lent. The scandles, the treachery by many in the clergy did it for me.
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If this is the main reason for you to leave the church, then you will find the problem anywhere.
sosayi1960 said:
My wife continues to be Catholic, I am taking the children to Protestant services to really worship God.
Peace in the Lord Jesus!
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I am glad your wife is still a Catholic. I hope that she prays for you to see the truth. It is good that you want your children to worship God, but it is wrong that you don’t think Catholics don’t worship God.

God bless.
 
Greetings. steve b,

“No valid priesthood, no valid Eucharist”

Absolutely.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
cor said:
BTW, in Catholic terminology, “Roman Church” refers to the Diocese of Rome. It’s generally polite to speak of others by how they like to be called unless to do so would be somehow untrue.
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I like to be called a catholic because I am a member of the universal Church that Christ founded, not because of some governance that recognizes the bishop of Rome as the Vicar of Christ. So, please refer to me as “catholic” with a small “c” from now on. Oh, and don’t use the excuse that it is untrue, for indeed the term “catholic” first and foremost means “universal”. It doesn’t mean affiliated with Rome. And I just so happen to belong to Christ and thus am a catholic. Even your own teachings say as much:

CATHOLIC PRINCIPLES ON ECUMENISM
For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)
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So, I will respect your wishes and use the term Catholic Church (not Roman Catholic), and ask that you respect my wishes and call me a catholic Christian (not a non-Catholic).
 
Re: Rising Protestant tide sweeps Catholic Brazil
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Having visited Brazil and lived there for a while I can say that Brazil Catholics are poorly catechized if not catechized at all. A friend of mine that was born and rasied in Brazil affirms this as well.

But it is not limited to Brazil. Nearly every Hispanic and/or latin based culture outside the United States is poorly catechized or not catechized at all.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
I like to be called a catholic because I am a member of the universal Church that Christ founded, not because of some governance that recognizes the bishop of Rome as the Vicar of Christ. So, please refer to me as “catholic” with a small “c” from now on. Oh, and don’t use the excuse that it is untrue, for indeed the term “catholic” first and foremost means “universal”. It doesn’t mean affiliated with Rome. And I just so happen to belong to Christ and thus am a catholic. Even your own teachings say as much:

CATHOLIC PRINCIPLES ON ECUMENISM

So, I will respect your wishes and use the term Catholic Church (not Roman Catholic), and ask that you respect my wishes and call me a catholic Christian (not a non-Catholic).
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Amen, Pastor! All this ‘we have/you don’t’ talk does nothing to unite our faith. Let’s start with our common love of the Lord and build UP, not tear DOWN.

From a catholic Catholic to a catholic Methodist, all of God’s love upon you, my brother :grouphug:

John 10

14: I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
15: as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16: And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
**17: **For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
 
The South American countries are not likely to become dominated by Protestantism,considering the racial characteristics of those countries. Protestant religion spread mainly among Germanic peoples whose heathen ancestors were more patriarchal,whereas the more Mediteranean and Celtic peoples,whose heathen ancestors were more matriarchal,stayed with Catholicism. The struggle between Protestantism and Catholicism to a large extent hinges on the question of Mary.
Certain cultures are more receptive to Protestantism than others,
but the Spanish,Portugese,South American Indians,and West Africans are not among those cultures.
 
Not so fast. Some, and I do say SOME of the Pentecostals do venerate Mary.

SOME, very few granted do accept a concept (watered down) of the communion of Saints…

Dont be so hasty to think they will NEVER go Protestant.

Be hopeful they will return HOME.
anthony022071 said:
The South American countries are not likely to become dominated by Protestantism. Those countries are Spanish and
Portugese in origin. Protestant religion spread mainly among Germanic peoples whose heathen ancestors were more patriarchal,whereas the more Mediteranean and Celtic peoples,whose heathen ancestors were more matriarchal,stayed with Catholicism. The struggle between Protestantism and Catholicism to a large extent hinges on the question of Mary.
Certain cultures are more receptive to Protestantism than others,
but the Spanish,Portugese,South American Indians,and West Africans are not among those cultures.
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Hellisreal said:
Not so fast. Some, and I do say SOME of the Pentecostals do venerate Mary.

SOME, very few granted do accept a concept (watered down) of the communion of Saints…

Dont be so hasty to think they will NEVER go Protestant.

Be hopeful they will return HOME.
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But also,Catholicism is too deeply ingrained into the South American countries – 5 centuries, and they have plenty of their own saints. Pope Benedict has written something to the effect that the American government is encouraging the spread of Protestant religion in South America because it is a more stable basis for capitalist economic development than Catholicism. I’ll look for the quote.
 
I rememder reading in "Buffalo News last fall that there are now two Protestant ministers to every one Catholic priest in Brazil and that a Catholic cardinal in Brazil is not too happy about it. That is one of the reasons the pope has gone to Brazil.
My Church supports seven Church planting missionary flamilys Brazil
 
Grateful4mercy said:
From a catholic Catholic to a catholic Methodist, all of God’s love upon you, my brother :grouphug:

John 10

14: I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
15: as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16: And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
**17: **For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
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With respect to the comments and article you reference from Grace Seeker forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif Jesus is talking about the gentiles when he speaks of “other sheep not in this fold”.

Many Protestant Christians take Jesus reference as meaning
  • all Churches are equal.
  • or else the sheep that do not belong to “this fold” are separated brothers and sisters of the Catholic Church, i.e. Protestants. Suggesting a split was already there between Christians.
    The context speaks otherwise. In His own Words, Jesus affirmed, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” [Mt. 15:24]
Later, Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, [emphasis mine],

“It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you [The Jews]. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles [the sheep not of this fold that Jesus was speaking of]. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, ‘I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, so that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." [Acts 13:46-8]

It goes without saying they came into the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.
 
allischalmers said:
I rememder reading in "Buffalo News last fall that there are now two Protestant ministers to every one Catholic priest in Brazil and that a Catholic cardinal in Brazil is not too happy about it. That is one of the reasons the pope has gone to Brazil.
My Church supports seven Church planting missionary flamilys Brazil
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How about he’s there to visit his flock? The odds of 100 million+ Brazilians going to Rome is pretty slim.
 
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