Risks of isolated communities: SSPX community in St. Marys, Kansas

[Fuerza]

While I am in general supportive of, or at least sympathetic to, the SSPX, and I think that this article goes a little overboard in portraying this community as a cult, I do see some danger here in this particular instance. What really struck me was the priest’s comment that the penitent was excommunicated because of her failure to prevent a friend from having an abortion. As far as I know that’s not Church teaching. Even if it were a sin for her, which would depend on the circumstances, it could be absolved without the need to lift any censure first. Things like that drive people away from the faith. Of course, since it happened in confession, the priest is unable to defend himself, so I suppose it’s not really fair to judge him based on this. Nevertheless, there are some red flags here. Also, the fact that there is an FSSP chapel about 20 minutes from this community means that there are other options to live a traditional lifestyle.

 

[Fuerza]

I should amend my above post slightly. If she actively assisted in procuring an abortion for her friend, then the priest might be correct, but the article does not make clear if that was the case.

 

[goout]

Monasteries are not isolated communities, in the sense that the discussion is proposing.
In Catholicism, isolation and community don’t belong in the same sentence. Monastic communities are just that: communities. And because they are communal with the Body of Christ, they are anything but isolated. Geographic considerations are not the heart of it.

 

[fhansen]

Many if not most religious orders began by feeling the need to step away from the mainstream, from both the world as well as the Church. And great good-growth in holiness and love- have come from this A problem arises, however, if we become mavericks, priggish, holier-than-thou, and not obedient to the pope.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Isolated religious communities often end up as cults. And eventually you end up with authoritarian leaders and members who are spiritually and otherwise abused.

This. Regardless of religion, isolated religious communities (not talking about monastic communities) usually end up having cult-like characteristics, even if they do not become a cult outright. Especially if they have an us-against-them mentality toward the rest of the world, or view outsiders as bad or dangerous.

 

[phil19034]

I don’t know a lot about the people in St. Mary, KS; but what I do know is the SSPX community around their grew around the school.

The school used to be nationally known as one of the best Jesuit ran schools in the nation. Boys from all over the country went to there for boarding school.

It was also the site of the first Cathedral for Kansas (before any dioceses were created there)

But after Vatican II, the Jesuit Seminary that was also located there merged with the one in St. Louis and the school eventually closed too.

The SSPX then bought the property, long before they had a need because it was a great property, filled with history.

The school eventually reopened as a SSPX school and parents slowly started moving there instead of just boarding their kids.

They are currently in the middle of trying to build a the largest SSPX chapel in the world there.

 

[InThePew]

Her friend, if she were Catholic would bear the penalty of excommunication. If she helped her friend procure the abortion then she would be excommunicated if for example she drove her friend to the clinic knowing that she was going to have the abortion, or if she fronted the money for the abortion.

Actually, no in both cases. As Edward Peters has observed, the real question isn’t whether most, or some, or even a few women are excommunicated for abortion, but rather, whether any women are excommunicated. The reason for this is that the automatic penalty for abortion (as well as assisting) doesn’t apply if the person concerned is unaware of the penalty, is a minor (under 16), was affected by mental health issues (including substance abuse), was coerced by grave (or even relatively grave) fear, or acted out of necessity or to avoid grave inconvenience.

 

[TheMortenBay]

acted out of necessity or to avoid grave inconvenience.

These are NOT grounds for an abortion. Abortion = murder, and murder is always grave matter. I can come up with precisely zero times when “grave inconvenience” would permit murder.
It’s true you can’t be excommunicated if you don’t know about the penalty, but do you really think that number is zero? I certainly don’t.

 

[commenter]

It’s troubling that the media only finds fault with conservative religious groups. If this writer had gone looking for possible problems in a liberal group, would the article have been printed (or the writer paid?)

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If she helped her friend procure the abortion then she would be excommunicated

Unfortunately we do not know the level of her involvement, so we cant really judge what the priest said.

While I don’t worship with the SSPX and have my reservations about doing so, I don’t see the problem.

I agree. I dont see a problem. How different is it from Catholics sending their kids to a Catholic school, to learn the faith and be with other Catholics.

I live in a rural are of 3 small towns that were all settled by Catholics and the majority of the businesses and events are still pretty much run by Catholic families.

 

[Lormar]

I don’t know of any sspx community that isolates itself.

The children go on to college and the others work out in the world.

Most people associate with those they have a lot in common with. Maybe that is being mistaken for isolating oneself?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Maybe that is being mistaken for isolating oneself?

I think whenever one rejects what is going on in the world, they run the risk of being accused of isolating themselves.

 

[InThePew]

These are NOT grounds for an abortion. Abortion = murder, and murder is always grave matter. I can come up with precisely zero times when “grave inconvenience” would permit murder.
It’s true you can’t be excommunicated if you don’t know about the penalty, but do you really think that number is zero? I certainly don’t.

They most definitely not grounds for abortion but then I’m not suggesting that they are - or for that matter, that abortion is ever justified. Abortion is also most definitely grave matter; however, there’s an important distinction between an act (such as abortion) and the penalty associated with that act (here, excommunication). Whether or not the penalty in fact applies doesn’t change the intrinsically evil nature of abortion, but what it does mean is that the level of culpability of the person involved can be affected by a whole range of factors and this is exactly what Canon Law looks at.

As to how many the penalty applies to, this is how Canonist Edward Peters puts it:

Given finally, that so-called ferendae sententiae penalties (sanctions following formal canonical trials or administrative hearings) against women for abortion are unheard of, the real question, it seems to me, is not whether most, or some, or even a few women are, under modern canon law, excommunicated for abortion, but rather, whether any women are excommunicated for abortion.

 

[melonhead]

It’s troubling that the media only finds fault with conservative religious groups. If this writer had gone looking for possible problems in a liberal group, would the article have been printed (or the writer paid?)

I think we both know the answer to that one.

As I’ve posted elsewhere, the SSPX is listed as a “hate group” by the SPLC for actions of individual members, not the teachings of the group, and for supposedly posting anti Semitic writings on their website (I looked but couldn’t find anything). This listing has been reference a few times the press. By that logic, shouldn’t they list mosques where Anwar al-Awlaki (supported murdering people) preached and Nidal Hassan (actually murdered people) attended as “hate groups?”

 

[Jen95]

Basically the worst thing in this article is the anecdote from the young lady about her friend’s abortion. Did we hear the priest’s side? No. I frankly think that she has an axe to grind, or maybe she even mis-heard or mis-understood the discussion in the confessional. Did she meet with the priest outside the confessional to discuss it at length? I think it’s telling that this one person is the only negative that the author could dig up!

 

[Jen95]

Isolation is not one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Christianity draws one into communion, not isolation.
Bad things happen to isolated people.

I see tons of people there living and interacting together. I feel more isolated living in the secular “normal” world in contemporary society.