Rite of Sending/Election

[damooster]

I am a sponsor for an RCIA candidate who, from the very beginning, told me and the RCIA director that he was probably not going to convert. He (an Episcopalian) was attending RCIA because his wife is Catholic and their child was recently baptized in the Catholic Church. They want to send him to Catholic schools, so he joined RCIA to learn more about Catholicism.

However, he seems to be really in to the whole experience and I think that he may actually convert. He takes fervent notes and he’s always asking questions. He’s the only one who seems like he actually wants to be at the class. I know I can’t tell what’s in everyone’s hearts, but he just seems to love it.

Anyways, our Rite of Sending and Rite of Election are this weekend and I don’t know how to explain to him that, while signing the book is not binding, it represents the Candidate being ready for the Catholic sacraments. I’ve tried to talk to him to see where he stands in the process but he has been kind of secretive (like he wants to surprise everyone by deciding to convert). Either that, or he still does not plan on converting.

My question is, how would you explain to him what this weekend means in a way that would not seem to be prying or pushy? He did the Rite of Acceptance because he didn’t “see anything wrong with it” but I know the Rites this weekend are significantly different.

Thanks.

 

[kage_ar]

A Canidate/Catechumen may “back out” even DURING the Easter Vigil.

I would not dissuade him from taking the next step, remember, the Holy Spirit is the one drawing him.

 

[puzzleannie]

I Anyways, our Rite of Sending and Rite of Election are this weekend and I don’t know how to explain to him that, while signing the book is not binding, it represents the Candidate being ready for the Catholic sacraments. I’ve tried to talk to him to see where he stands in the process but he has been kind of secretive (like he wants to surprise everyone by deciding to convert). Either that, or he still does not plan on converting.

My question is, how would you explain to him what this weekend means in a way that would not seem to be prying or pushy? He did the Rite of Acceptance because he didn’t “see anything wrong with it” but I know the Rites this weekend are significantly different.

Thanks.

that is unfortunate, as the Rite of Acceptance and Rite of Election are for the unbaptized only. The parallel rights for the baptized candidates are the Rite of Welcoming and the Call to Continuing Conversion. Find out if the latter is offered at the same or another time for the candidates, and make it your first priority to make sure he, and the other members of the RCIA team, understand that the difference in status of the baptized must be respected and acknowledged at all times.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

As someone who is already baptized, he won’t sign the Book of the Elect or go through the Rite of Election.

Is there also a Call to Continuing Conversion? That would be the proper rite for him.

In this archdiocese they have made the Rite of Election completely separate from the Call to Continuing Conversion, with the latter rite taking place in individual parishes.

I don’t know what you should say to the person you are sponsoring. I can tell you that before the Rite of Election or Call to Continuing Conversion I meet individually with the candidates and catechumens to see if they want to go through the rite, if they feel prepared and ready to go through it now, or if they would like to wait and have a longer time to prepare. I hope that your RCIA director does something similar so that they can talk about where he stands.

 

[SpaceNeedle]

As someone who is already baptized, he won’t sign the Book of the Elect or go through the Rite of Election.

Is there also a Call to Continuing Conversion? That would be the proper rite for him.

In this archdiocese they have made the Rite of Election completely separate from the Call to Continuing Conversion, with the latter rite taking place in individual parishes.

I don’t know what you should say to the person you are sponsoring. I can tell you that before the Rite of Election or Call to Continuing Conversion I meet individually with the candidates and catechumens to see if they want to go through the rite, if they feel prepared and ready to go through it now, or if they would like to wait and have a longer time to prepare. I hope that your RCIA director does something similar so that they can talk about where he stands.

When my fiance confirmed as an adult (he had always been Catholic but did not confirm as a teen) he signed the Book of the Elect…as did all members of the RCIA class. I was surprised by this…I wonder if this was just a mistake made in that parish, or if it happens throughout the diocese.

 

[damooster]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess this diocese combines the Rite of Election and Call to Continuing Conversion because both Candidate and Catachumen were there last year (when I went through it) and everyone will be there this year. And, I’m pretty sure that everyone signed the book last year.

I’m not trying to dissuade him from continuing the conversion, I just want to make sure that he understands what is taking place this weekend without being too pushy.

The RCIA director does not talk with the individuals prior to this weekend (at least she didn’t with me) but I’m sure she will talk to me about my Candidate as she really wants him to convert. We are having a rehearsal this Wednesday after Mass, so maybe she’ll foresee my dilemna and describe the rites in detail so that the Candidate can decide.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess this diocese combines the Rite of Election and Call to Continuing Conversion because both Candidate and Catachumen were there last year (when I went through it) and everyone will be there this year. And, I’m pretty sure that everyone signed the book last year.

I’m not trying to dissuade him from continuing the conversion, I just want to make sure that he understands what is taking place this weekend without being too pushy.

The RCIA director does not talk with the individuals prior to this weekend (at least she didn’t with me) but I’m sure she will talk to me about my Candidate as she really wants him to convert. We are having a rehearsal this Wednesday after Mass, so maybe she’ll foresee my dilemna and describe the rites in detail so that the Candidate can decide.

damooster, I joined RCIA as an atheist, with no intention of being baptized. I had no commitment to this at all, but I could not resist where God was leading me. I had remaining doubts at this time (the Rite of Election), and that reserved idea in the back of my head that I could back out. Over Lent, I worked through those struggles.

I would not stop anyone from participating, or even suggest that they should not. If someone had said that to me, I would not had gone forward as I was not absolutely sure of my decision until during Lent. It is this way for more than a few Catechumens. They are in a time of continuing discernment.

 

[tinalewis]

I’ll keep him in my prayers! He sounds like an RCIA instructor’s dream come true.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am a sponsor for an RCIA candidate who, from the very beginning, told me and the RCIA director that he was probably not going to convert. He (an Episcopalian) was attending RCIA because his wife is Catholic and their child was recently baptized in the Catholic Church. They want to send him to Catholic schools, so he joined RCIA to learn more about Catholicism.

However, he seems to be really in to the whole experience and I think that he may actually convert. He takes fervent notes and he’s always asking questions. He’s the only one who seems like he actually wants to be at the class. I know I can’t tell what’s in everyone’s hearts, but he just seems to love it.

Anyways, our Rite of Sending and Rite of Election are this weekend and I don’t know how to explain to him that, while signing the book is not binding, it represents the Candidate being ready for the Catholic sacraments. I’ve tried to talk to him to see where he stands in the process but he has been kind of secretive (like he wants to surprise everyone by deciding to convert). Either that, or he still does not plan on converting.

My question is, how would you explain to him what this weekend means in a way that would not seem to be prying or pushy? He did the Rite of Acceptance because he didn’t “see anything wrong with it” but I know the Rites this weekend are significantly different.

Thanks.

As a Candidate he would not sign the Book of the Elect, only Catechumens sign the Book of the Elect. If he made it clear that he did not intend to become Catholic then he should never have gone through the Rite of Welcome? He should still be in Inquiry. The process prevents people from being secretive, because it is all very open, requiring investigations into the validity of Baptism and Marriage, agreement between the person, their sponsor and the Pastor.

 

[fdesales]

I am a sponsor for an RCIA candidate who, from the very beginning, told me and the RCIA director that he was probably not going to convert. He (an Episcopalian) was attending RCIA because his wife is Catholic and their child was recently baptized in the Catholic Church. They want to send him to Catholic schools, so he joined RCIA to learn more about Catholicism.

However, he seems to be really in to the whole experience and I think that he may actually convert. He takes fervent notes and he’s always asking questions. He’s the only one who seems like he actually wants to be at the class. I know I can’t tell what’s in everyone’s hearts, but he just seems to love it.

Anyways, our Rite of Sending and Rite of Election are this weekend and I don’t know how to explain to him that, while signing the book is not binding, it represents the Candidate being ready for the Catholic sacraments. I’ve tried to talk to him to see where he stands in the process but he has been kind of secretive (like he wants to surprise everyone by deciding to convert). Either that, or he still does not plan on converting.

My question is, how would you explain to him what this weekend means in a way that would not seem to be prying or pushy? He did the Rite of Acceptance because he didn’t “see anything wrong with it” but I know the Rites this weekend are significantly different.

Thanks.

Part of the RCIA process calls for “discernment”, not only for him but for the Church. You are the “Church” part of that equation. Is it in your honest opinion that he is indeed BEGINNING to desire to come to God through the Catholic Church? From what you are saying, it seems that God is indeed moving him in the right direction and he is responding. I would definitely make such a statement to him.

But discernment on HIS part should also be stressed. “is this what YOU really want to do”. “Don’t do it for your wife, do it for you”. Etc.

The Rite is a formal indication that he wants to continue, but he is not bound to that decision - and as the good Brother notes, he is not to sign the book - as a Christian, his name is already in the “Book of Elect” in heaven, presuming he doesn’t erase it later!

I think I would just emphasize that he consider if he feels God is moving HIM to become Catholic. If so, then fulfill God’s will! Faith leads to understanding, and it is not necessary to “clear up” ALL matters (like perhaps a personal issue with contraception), as long as he has faith that this is indeed the Church established by Christ, further explanations can follow later. Conversion is a life-long process.

Regards,

Fdesales

 

[fdesales]

When my fiance confirmed as an adult (he had always been Catholic but did not confirm as a teen) he signed the Book of the Elect…as did all members of the RCIA class. I was surprised by this…I wonder if this was just a mistake made in that parish, or if it happens throughout the diocese.

It may be because the RCIA director doesn’t know.
It may be because the RCIA director doesn’t want to “leave anyone out”
It may be because a candidate WANTS to be included and to sign the book and go through the ritual, even after I explained things… This happened to me a few times as a director…

It’s a ritual, and if signing the book made a candidate feel closer to Christ, after knowing that the Book does not need to be signed, what’s the harm? Am I to say “No, you can’t, go away”? I don’t suppose God is upset if a candidate signs the Book of the Elect…!

But that’s my personal opinion. Maybe someone will correct me.

Regards

Fdesales

 

[Joannm]

It may be because the RCIA director doesn’t know.
It may be because the RCIA director doesn’t want to “leave anyone out”
It may be because a candidate WANTS to be included and to sign the book and go through the ritual, even after I explained things… This happened to me a few times as a director…

It’s a ritual, and if signing the book made a candidate feel closer to Christ, after knowing that the Book does not need to be signed, what’s the harm? Am I to say “No, you can’t, go away”? I don’t suppose God is upset if a candidate signs the Book of the Elect…!

But that’s my personal opinion. Maybe someone will correct me.

Regards

Fdesales

YES, as the RCIA director you have to let candidates know that they do not sign the book and why. As candidates they are already Christian and the Church accepts their baptism as valid. The Rite of Election is for non-Christians, the unbaptized. If a candidate signs the book, he is being called to baptism and he is basically denying his baptism. It has nothing to do with making him feel closer to Christ. He is already closer to Christ by virtue of his baptism.

 

[fdesales]

YES, as the RCIA director you have to let candidates know that they do not sign the book and why. As candidates they are already Christian and the Church accepts their baptism as valid. The Rite of Election is for non-Christians, the unbaptized. If a candidate signs the book, he is being called to baptism and he is basically denying his baptism. It has nothing to do with making him feel closer to Christ. He is already closer to Christ by virtue of his baptism.

Joannm,

As I said, I did let the candidates know. However, if one is adamant, who am I to say “I SAID NO!!!”. That is not the correct pastoral answer. As an RCIA coordinator, you have to learn to be flexible and understand that much of the RCIA manual are GUIDELINES, not canonical law.

Regards

 

[mswood]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess this diocese combines the Rite of Election and Call to Continuing Conversion because both Candidate and Catachumen were there last year (when I went through it) and everyone will be there this year. And, I’m pretty sure that everyone signed the book last year.

My diocese also combines the Rite of Election and the Call to Continuing Conversion, however only the Catachumen sign the book. The deacon in charge of our RCIA program has already explained all of this to us so we will be prepared when we go to the cathedral this coming Sunday.

He also explained at the begining of the RCIA classes that the process was designed for the Catachumen so there where some times when the Catachumen would be the “stars”, but that didn’t mean that the canidates conversion was not important. No one in our class has had a problem with this.

 

[Joannm]

Joannm,

As I said, I did let the candidates know. However, if one is adamant, who am I to say “I SAID NO!!!”. That is not the correct pastoral answer. As an RCIA coordinator, you have to learn to be flexible and understand that much of the RCIA manual are GUIDELINES, not canonical law.

Regards

The RCIA “manual,” as you call it, is an official RITES BOOK of the Church, it is liturgical law which is canonical. That would be the same as saying that the GIRM is only a guideline for celebrating the Mass but we could be flexible and pastoral. Why not call your bishop and ask if it is OK with him for a candidate who is not a catechumen to sign the Book of the Elect.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Joannm,

As I said, I did let the candidates know. However, if one is adamant, who am I to say “I SAID NO!!!”. That is not the correct pastoral answer. As an RCIA coordinator, you have to learn to be flexible and understand that much of the RCIA manual are GUIDELINES, not canonical law.

Regards

There’s something about this that bothers me.

In one sense, signing the book is no big deal.

Except…

If the rites mean something, then you want to do them correctly and for the right people. If your same candidate was adamant that he wanted to be baptized at the Easter Vigil, would you be “pastoral” and say “oh, why not?”

I hope you would explain that baptism isn’t the appropriate rite, explain why, explain who it is for and what it means, etc. The Rite of Election is not intended for someone who is already baptized and signing the Book of the Elect is not for someone already baptized. If a candidate doesn’t understand what the rite is about then it’s our job to explain it. It is also our job to listen when a candidate feels left out and to offer a sympathetic ear, while also reminding that person of the grace and dignity of the baptism they’ve already experienced.

 

[anjoh66]

A Canidate/Catechumen may “back out” even DURING the Easter Vigil.

I would not dissuade him from taking the next step, remember, the Holy Spirit is the one drawing him.

Isnt that a little bit hypocrite?

In the rite of election the bishop ask if the catechumen is willing to accept the sacraments of baptizm, confirmation and eucharist.

Going through the rite and answer yes to this question without having the intention to acctually do it seems to me that the candidate/catechumen is hypocrite.

 

[Joannm]

Isnt that a little bit hypocrite?

In the rite of election the bishop ask if the catechumen is willing to accept the sacraments of baptizm, confirmation and eucharist.

Going through the rite and answer yes to this question without having the intention to acctually do it seems to me that the candidate/catechumen is hypocrite.

No, it could just mean that he or she really isn’t ready but could have been pushed along by the RCIA director or sponsor or relative. It’s like someone who really feels they shouldn’t be getting married but goes through with the wedding anyway because they have it all set up and don’t want to disappoint people. Deciding not to go through with baptism could mean they just want to hold off for another year, maybe something is going on in their life that they didn’t expect, or maybe they began to have doubts during their Lenten experience. I would rather have someone back out for a good reason then to go through it half heartedly.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Isnt that a little bit hypocrite?

In the rite of election the bishop ask if the catechumen is willing to accept the sacraments of baptizm, confirmation and eucharist.

Going through the rite and answer yes to this question without having the intention to acctually do it seems to me that the candidate/catechumen is hypocrite.

This is why RCIA is very precise in it’s step by step approach, never rushed along. The person has a Sponsor, and the three of them always are involved in determining when the next step is taken. There are several interviews with the team leaders along the way.

 

[anjoh66]

No, it could just mean that he or she really isn’t ready but could have been pushed along by the RCIA director or sponsor or relative. It’s like someone who really feels they shouldn’t be getting married but goes through with the wedding anyway because they have it all set up and don’t want to disappoint people. Deciding not to go through with baptism could mean they just want to hold off for another year, maybe something is going on in their life that they didn’t expect, or maybe they began to have doubts during their Lenten experience. I would rather have someone back out for a good reason then to go through it half heartedly.

This should have been settled before the rite and usually it is.

But in a case like the OP explained i dont see it fit that a person who is most likely not willing to convert should go through this rite, it should be an established fact that they by their own free will are doing this.

That is what they are being questioned during the rite, if they by their own free will are willing to receive the sacraments.