Rite of Welcoming

[Church_Militant]

It isn’t so much why you make the sign of the cross. Once I am Catholic, or, at least, decided to be Catholic, I won’t have a problem doing it. However, because I am not Catholic and am not sure I want to be Catholic, I am not sure I want to take part in something that identifies me as a Catholic.

I think it is a great thing, and I understand why you, as Catholics, make the sign of the cross; however, I feel I will be identifying myself as a Catholic… which I am not; and not sure, at this time, that I want to be. Does that make more sense?

RyanL’s Wife

ps I KNOW you aren’t Masons, I was just trying to find an example…that was the best thing I could come up with on the spur of the moment. Silly Church Militant!

Hi Amy!
I understand what you mean.

Let me ask you this then.
What do you disagree with so much that you would fear being thought of as a Catholic?

I realize that because of Ryan that you probably know and understand more about our most holy faith than some Catholics… , but it seems like I sense some fear (or something) that I don’t think should be there.

I greatly applaud your unfailing integrity in not wishing to appear to be something that you are not. That is one of the things that makes you a good believer to begin with. (Lucky man, Ryan! ) This is also something will make you one each good Catholic (if and when).

I suggest that if the Catholic Eucharistic beliefs are Biblically accurate then they are excellent grounds to convert just by themselves.

Naturally I find nothing in my Catholic faith that I can see as an impediment to your conversion, but you know me and I’ll do what I can to help you along.
Hug the baby for me!
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

 

[kaycee]

It isn’t so much why you make the sign of the cross. Once I am Catholic, or, at least, decided to be Catholic, I won’t have a problem doing it. However, because I am not Catholic and am not sure I want to be Catholic, I am not sure I want to take part in something that identifies me as a Catholic.

I think it is a great thing, and I understand why you, as Catholics, make the sign of the cross; however, I feel I will be identifying myself as a Catholic… which I am not; and not sure, at this time, that I want to be. Does that make more sense?

RyanL’s Wife

ps I KNOW you aren’t Masons, I was just trying to find an example…that was the best thing I could come up with on the spur of the moment. Silly Church Militant!

Hi Amy,

May i ask what form of Christianity you currently identify yourself as

What is it that you currently believe gets you to Heaven?

Thanks
Blessings
Brian

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi Amy,

May i ask what form of Christianity you currently identify yourself as

What is it that you currently believe gets you to Heaven?

Thanks
Blessings
Brian

Amy is Baptist.

 

[jmcrae]

Another poster pointed this out as well. I already have faith, will I be asking for more faith?

This is not the ritual for you: he posted the wrong one, as I tried to point out, above. You will receive the Rite of Welcome, which has different questions. Don’t worry - you already know the answers to these questions - as I tell my own RCIA Inquirers, if they don’t rehearse the Rite with you or tell you what you are “supposed to say,” then just listen carefully to the questions they ask you, and answer honestly. That’s probably what you’re “supposed to do.” anyway - which might be why some Catechists don’t rehearse the Rites with the Inquirers ahead of time.

Is my current faith not enough to warrant Eternal Life?

None of us have enough faith to “warrant” eternal life - it is by God’s grace that we will receive it (if we do).

Being Catholic and participating in the Sacraments are ways of increasing in grace, but if you honestly feel that being Catholic goes against your conscience at this time in your life, then it’s better to wait until you are ready, and can really enjoy the Conversion process, without feeling anxious or doubtful of whether this is really God’s plan for you.

Once you know that God wants you to be Catholic, you might still be nervous, but it won’t matter to you any more - and although right now it’s easy to get hung up on other people’s behaviour right now, when you know, then other people’s behaviour won’t have any deterrent effect on you, either.

 

[kaycee]

I already have faith, will I be asking for more faith? Is my current faith not enough to warrant Eternal Life?

Just curious,

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

If you trust in the perfect sacrifice of Christ for your salvation. Saving Faith is all you need!

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Rom 10:9-10)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

“To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:4,5).

Having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1)

“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God” (1 John 5:1)

Through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43)

 

[LeahInancsi]

Catechumens are the only ones that should be dismissed and the Rite strongly suggests that they be dismissed (option “C” paragraph 67). Sponsors and Candidates should never be dismissed with Catechumens. Team members who handle BOW in our parish simply attend another Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation.

Eventhough you cited chapter and verse, I think it is good for candidates and catechumen to be dismissed together. I went through RCIA last year and that’s how it was done at my parish. There were four catechumen and about 15 candidates. The candidates got just as much or more out of the time spent discussing the liturgy. Just because you haven’t been baptized doesn’t mean you’re totally ignorant of Christianity. How many babies are baptized in the Catholic church as infants and, for whatever reason, do not attend church when they’re old enough to understand Christianity? The sacrament of Baptisim removes sin, it doesn’t not teach Christianity.

I was a catechumen. If I had been singled out because I had not been baptized, I would have been horrified. It’s bad enough to be baptized with the children in front of a churchful of people.

If I’m not mistaken, there are select things the pastor can alter to suit his congregation. I think this is one of them.

 

[kaycee]

Another poster pointed this out as well. I already have faith, will I be asking for more faith? Is my current faith not enough to warrant Eternal Life?

Just curious,

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

Hi Amy,

I am praying that God would save you if He has not already!
I really feel for you and your struggle. Faith in the finished work of Christ is all you need. Trust Him Alone!

I dont want to be to blunt, but becoming a Catholic entails alot more than just having Faith in Christ. In order to be saved an individual must believe and hold to every doctrine dogmatically defined by the Roman Catholic Church. This entails not only the teaching of the Creed, the sacraments and justification but also the doctrines related to the Papacy (papal rule and infallibility), Mary (immaculate conception and assumption), the canon of scripture and purgatory. Vatican I states that it is necessary for salvation that an individual believe not only all that is revealed in Scripture but also everything defined and proposed by the Church. To reject anything officially taught by the Roman Church is to reject saving faith and to forfeit both justification and eternal life:

“Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed. And since, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and to attain to the fellowship of his children, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will any one obtain eternal life unless he shall have persevered in faith unto the end (Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council, On Faith, Chapter III. Found in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (New York:Harper, 1877), Volume II, pp. 244-245).”

 

[LeahInancsi]

RyanL’s Wife,

If you have questions about what is going on in your RCIA class, feel free to call or e-mail the Religious Education Director, the class instructor or a priest at the parish you are attending. They will be happy to answer your questions.

Last year, as we were getting close to ceremonies before Easter Vigil, the candidates and catechumen were speculating and wondering what was going to happen. I sent an e-mail to the class instructor asking him to discuss it in class and all questions were answered in the next class.

I noticed that you are Baptist and your husband is Catholic. Whatever you do at this upcoming ceremony, you should really continue to attend class. If nothing else, to understand your husband’s religion. In early March, if you’ve changed your mind and want to join the Church, then you’re good to go.

BTW, I started RCIA after this ceremony, so I’m not sure of its significance.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Mrs L

I understand your concerns, and promise you they are unfounded. They certainly are concerns to you and I hope you allow time for each to unfold. If allowed to unfold I know things will be fine for you. I lived in many Baptist towns and knew many excellent Baptists and their preachers. I know the religions are so similar to create frustration between the two groups. It is the similarities not the differences which create these issues.

As others have mentioned your Rite of Welcoming is optional and may be celebrated different ways there are actually 3 options one of which is not to celebrate. If you want request to use "Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (Study Guide) all parishes have a copy. This is a $15 dollar paperback book. On page 20*, 245, 289 you will find various versions please note on Page 243 (paragraph 415) The director can tell which one the Priest has instructed him to use. While you have the book, look at page 351 the “Profession by the Candidates” which is considerably closer to your concerns. Please note that is the last thing you do, which is almost always done the Saturday before Easter.

In your bible look at Matthew 5:18 , Mark 1:16, Luke 6:13, John 1:35 (my favorite) Look at the requirements used, you qualify just fine.

*when the version on pg 20 is used the “Rite of Welcoming” is not being celebrated. The group is using the “Rite of Acceptance” as a single ceremony.

Hope that helps sorry about any confusion I caused

 

[RyanL]

I am praying that God would save you if He has not already!
I really feel for you and your struggle. Faith in the finished work of Christ is all you need. Trust Him Alone!..

Be honest – are you my mother in law?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Hi Amy!
I understand what you mean.

Let me ask you this then.
What do you disagree with so much that you would fear being thought of as a Catholic?

It is not so much that I FEAR being thought of as a Catholic. But I don’t feel it is right to present myself as a Catholic, (signing the cross) if I do not intend to become one.

Everyone said, you don’t know if you want to convert? Go to RCIA, it will help. Now, I am there and people are wanting me to jump right into the Catholic sacramentals. I’m just not ready for that yet.

I think I will just opt out of this and continue attending the classes. If they won’t let me participate because I opted out of this Rite, well then, it wasn’t the right time for me.

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Hi Amy,

I am praying that God would save you if He has not already!
I really feel for you and your struggle. Faith in the finished work of Christ is all you need. Trust Him Alone!

I dont want to be to blunt, but becoming a Catholic entails alot more than just having Faith in Christ. In order to be saved an individual must believe and hold to every doctrine dogmatically defined by the Roman Catholic Church. This entails not only the teaching of the Creed, the sacraments and justification but also the doctrines related to the Papacy (papal rule and infallibility), Mary (immaculate conception and assumption), the canon of scripture and purgatory. Vatican I states that it is necessary for salvation that an individual believe not only all that is revealed in Scripture but also everything defined and proposed by the Church. To reject anything officially taught by the Roman Church is to reject saving faith and to forfeit both justification and eternal life.

While I sincerely thank you for your post. Trust me, I am fully aware of what is expected of me if I choose Catholicism. I probably know more about Catholicism than most realize. (and probably adhere to more of their teachings than many so-called Catholics — attending mass EVERY Sunday, no ABC, etc.) If I choose conversion I am very well aware of everything I must believe, which I am fully willing to do if that is where the Lord leads me. However, I am still waiting for the Holy Spirit to lead me into the Catholic church, which is why I am reluctant to present myself as a Catholic.

I have heard all the arguments for why I should not convert, however, I am willing to let the Lord take me where He wants me.

That being said, I sincerely thank you for your concern.

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

 

[Church_Militant]

It is not so much that I FEAR being thought of as a Catholic. But I don’t feel it is right to present myself as a Catholic, (signing the cross) if I do not intend to become one.

Everyone said, you don’t know if you want to convert? Go to RCIA, it will help. Now, I am there and people are wanting me to jump right into the Catholic sacramentals. I’m just not ready for that yet.

I think I will just opt out of this and continue attending the classes. If they won’t let me participate because I opted out of this Rite, well then, it wasn’t the right time for me.

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

I do understand and I think you’re probably right. I…would suggest that you talk to the pastor and go with his recommendation. You need to resolve all this.

 

[jmcrae]

Everyone said, you don’t know if you want to convert? Go to RCIA, it will help. Now, I am there and people are wanting me to jump right into the Catholic sacramentals. I’m just not ready for that yet.

Ask whether you can attend Catechism classes as a visitor. (You probably can, unless they are held during Dismissal.)

Is there an option for you to remain in Inquiry, or is the class all moving “as one” at your parish?

At my parish we are moving to the year-round four part model, which is really good, because when I sent a bunch of them for Catechism a couple of weeks ago, the ones who weren’t ready yet have stayed with me in Inquiry, and we are working on their issues in Inquiry. It also provides people with the opportunity to come into Inquiry any time they want, instead of having to wait until September - and then slam through it like we’re in a race of some kind.

Supposedly this model is being implemented world wide, but there are so many Dioceses that haven’t even heard of it, yet.

However, that having been said - you can set up your own self-initiated year-round any-time Inquiry program, and take as long as you want with it - just get some children’s Catechism books and work on one thing at a time until you “get it.” That’s what I did - yes, a 30 year old woman reading children’s books - but the beauty of children’s books is that they don’t assume that you know anything. They start from the ground and work up, laying out the basics for you in clear English and in an entertaining and memorable way.

You can do your self-initiated Inquiry program until you feel ready, and you’re quite certain that you want to do this, and then join the next available RCIA to complete the process - maybe next year, or maybe years from now - Inquiry hasn’t got a deadline on it. (Typically, Inquiry takes about four months, but in my case, it took 16 years, and there is every possibility in between, as well.)

I didn’t know for sure that I wanted to be Catholic (and like you, I was living a Catholic lifestyle already) until I was 39 years old, but I was attracted to the Church from the time that I was 22 years old. I did RCIA twice and felt rushed both times, so I did what I’m advising you to do - I made up my own Inquiry program, with the Holy Spirit as my instructor, and that worked out just fine.

 

[Big_Dave]

Hi all. Since I am a Baptist attending the RCIA and soon will be going through this rite I appreciate all the good information. I however am fully ready to plunge right in. I felt as you do now last year and did not go to RCIA at all. This year I just can’t wait…

God Bless

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I might allow a Candidate to go to BOW if they wanted to, they should never feel like that are required to however. They should not go up in front to receive the Blessing intended for the Catechumens and be dismissed. ( because the wording does not match them) They should simply leave their pew separate from the Catechumens and meet in the room where BOW will take place . Sponsors could also go if they want to and agree to fulfill the Sunday obligation at another Mass.

“If I had been singled out because I had not been baptized, I would have been horrified.”

There must always be a distinction between the Candidates -Baptized and the Catechumens - not Baptized. Because the Baptism when validly received is always respected as the Sacrament that makes a person a Christian and a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.

“It’s bad enough to be baptized with the children in front of a churchful of people.”

Baptized with children? The only people that are Baptized at the Easter Vigil are Catechumens. Infants should not to be Baptized at the Easter Vigil.

“If I’m not mistaken, there are select things the pastor can alter to suit his congregation. I think this is one of them.”

There are very few things,

 

[jmcrae]

This caught my eye.

Once I decide to become Catholic, I don’t think I will have a problem with it. But for now, it is a problem.

So, at some level you know that you will become Catholic, some day. At a certain level, you are aware that there are some steps you need to take, and some growth that has to happen before you can do that, though. That’s okay. Take your time. You literally have Eternity.

I don’t think I am ready to betray my faith. And by doing something that I see as Catholic, I feel like I will be doing that.

In your mind, what is your faith?

Is it the people you used to go to Church with? People that you love, because they were the first to bring you the message of the Gospel?

Because you need to know that your love for them won’t diminish, if you become Catholic.

In fact, it might even grow deeper. You won’t forget about them, I promise. They will still and will always be very important to you. Your relationship with them will change (and indeed, already has) but you will never stop loving them - they will always be in your heart, and the things they taught you will always be important things that you need to know and need to pass on to your children and others. They will always be very important characters in the story of you. That will never, ever change.

The things you learned before are also very important. They are gifts that you are bringing with you into the Church. These gifts are also very important. Nobody is asking you to throw away your gifts, or act like you don’t have any, when you come into the Catholic Church.

I want to share a story with you.

The background is this: when I realized I needed to become Catholic - when that little inner voice that I had been waiting for for sixteen years said, “NOW!” - when I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that I needed to be Catholic, I went to see a priest and we set a date which would be my last day in the Protestant church.

Well, that day came. As I was leaving the Protestant church, I could hear the strains of “Sheep Safely Graze” coming from the Sanctuary, and I said to Jesus, “You know what I am giving up, here, right? I might never hear that hymn again in my whole life.” (Because for some reason that I no longer remember, I was under the impression that Catholics don’t have classical music in Church. I had been going to folk Masses for sixteen whole years, and had no idea there was any other kind.)

Anyhow, there was a Mass starting in half an hour from that time, so I jumped in my car and headed over to the Catholic Church, and as I walked in - softly over my head from the back of the Church, I could hear the organist playing the prelude of that Sunday - “Sheep Safely Graze.” I nearly fell down and wept

Jesus was telling me that day, and I want to tell you now - nothing of value that you have from your previous faith will be lost. Nothing.

When you come into the Catholic Church, you will only gain. You will get to keep everything good and beautiful that you now have, and in addition, you will also get to have everything that is good and beautiful in the Catholic Church.

I just wanted you to know that.

 

[MariaG]

I read through this thread and truly wish that others, Catholic and non-Catholic alike would give as much thought to their walk with Christ as you are doing:thumbsup: .

You should not participate in this rite with the doubts you have. You should talk to the priest as to why you don’t feel you can participate yet, but tell him you wish to continue to come to the classes.

But I would ask a quetion of you that I was touched on by jmcrae. You say you feel you will be betraying your faith.

Currently, it appears as if your loyalty to Christ is tied to the Baptist Church and you seem to be feeling that if you sever your ties to the Baptist Church, you are also somehow severing your ties to Christ.

Catholics frequently have a similar way of thinking. **Their faith in Christ and their faith in the Church are intimately tied together. **I know mine is. I trust in Christ, I trust in His inspired word and the interpretation of that word that His Church kept safe. It is all together and inseparable.

You need define faith differently. Your faith is in Christ. Currently, your Church membership is to the baptist Church.

Your loyalty is to Christ. And even if you become Catholic, it is not because your loyalty is now to the Catholic Church instead of Christ, but you will see that your loyalty is to the Catholic Church *because *of your loyalty to Christ and His desires for you.

I know have an intellectual understanding. But it appears to me as if you heart has not yet caught up with your head on this matter. And that by not only becoming Catholic, but even participating with rites and actions that are Catholic, is ultimately a betrayal of Christ, since you yourself have said your ‘faith’.

Only you have the answers to this, but I read what you wrote and wished you to consider where some of your misgivings* may be *coming from.

May God bless you with peace.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[sea_oat]

Well, that day came. As I was leaving the Protestant church, I could hear the strains of “Sheep Safely Graze” coming from the Sanctuary, and I said to Jesus, “You know what I am giving up, here, right? I might never hear that hymn again in my whole life.” (Because for some reason that I no longer remember, I was under the impression that Catholics don’t have classical music in Church. I had been going to folk Masses for sixteen whole years, and had no idea there was any other kind.)

Anyhow, there was a Mass starting in half an hour from that time, so I jumped in my car and headed over to the Catholic Church, and as I walked in - softly over my head from the back of the Church, I could hear the organist playing the prelude of that Sunday - “Sheep Safely Graze.” I nearly fell down and wept

What a beautiful thing to happen

 

[puzzleannie]

In RCIA, what exactly is the Rite of Welcoming. I know it is suppose to take place a few Sunday’s from now. But, no one has even told us what it is, what it means, or what’s involved. Just that we are required to be there.
Since, I am not even sure I want to convert to Catholicism, I am leery of taking part in any rites. (especially since no one has bothered to tell me what it is)

If I am not even remotely sure I want to convert (in fact, at this moment leaning against it) is it even appropriate for me to go through this. I definitely don’t feel comfortable doing so…

Any help/information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

RyanL’s Wife

if you are not ready yet you should make that know to your director, and explain that you do not want to participate at this time. You definitely should not proceed with any of the Rites until you are ready. Do continue with the class as you won’t be in a good position to make such a decision until you have addressed all your questions. That is the purpose of the initial phase of the RCIA process–which can take years–that is why it is called Inquiry.

As for the rites themselves, the best way, in the experience of most RCIA directors, is to explain briefly the Rite shortly before it happens, and not try to give a detailed explanation of the whole program at the beginning. It is just confusing. It is essential in RCIA for patience, and to allow the directors to present what you need to know, when you need to know it. Before the Rite they will explain why it is being done, what you will be asked, and what your response should be. If you cannot make that response, you should not participate in the Rite.