Rites, Churches, and the "Roman Catholic Church"

[R_C]

If we call every organized body of Christians a Communion, including the Church herself, then we place everyone on equal footing

Doing so, however, we have a serious problem. Ecumenism must not be sought at the expense of truth.

The Church refers to apostolic communities with the term “Church” (ex. the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is acknowledged as a separated apostolic church, while protestant communities with a valid baptism are acknowledged as ecclesial communities).

They could not be placed on ‘equal footing’, since they are in imperfect communion with the One Church established by Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him. More on this here.

In any case, even within the full communion of the Church, the primacy of Rome in no way diminishes the others, just like the primacy of Peter did not diminish the other apostles.

I don’t think we should try to water down and sugar-coat the terminology in order to favor dialogue. We’re all grown-ups

 

[Peter_J]

If we call every organized body of Christians a Communion,
…

We don’t (do we?). That wouldn’t make sense to me. For example, the UGCC isn’t a “communion”, it’s one of the 23 churches in communion with Rome.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

the UGCC isn’t a “communion”

You’re right, ‘organized body’ was a poor choice of words. I was trying to avoid the term “denomination,” because the Church is not a denomination. Some people say “faith tradition,” but again, in the case of the Catholic faith, it is degrading.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I use the term “Catholic Communion”, “Eastern Orthodox Communion”, or “Oriental Orthodox Communion” to refer to these and “Assyrian Church” for that body.

 

[Aramis]

We’ve had a number of discussions about uses and misuses of the terms church and rite. (E.g. A correct use is saying “the UGCC uses the Byzantine Rite”, an incorrect use is saying that the UGCC is a “rite”.)

But the other side of this misunderstanding is, I think, very rarely brought up: namely, when posters speak of the “Roman Church” (or “Roman Catholic Church”) when there really is no “Roman Church” – there is the Latin Church, which is one of the 23 churches in the Roman Communion (not “Roman Church”).

So I guess the point is, we probably won’t get anywhere unless we address the whole problem.

Rome still uses both “Roman” and “Latin” interchangeably for both Rite and Church. Your argument thus is inherently flawed.

 

[Peter_J]

Rome still uses both “Roman” and “Latin” interchangeably for both Rite and Church. Your argument thus is inherently flawed.

There are numerous posters who say “Roman Church” and/or “Latin Rite”, but I don’t believe either of those are actually correct.

 

[twf]

There are numerous posters who say “Roman Church” and/or “Latin Rite”, but I don’t believe either of those are actually correct.

Peter, I have long been of the opinion that you are correct. Properly speaking, it is the Latin Church, of which the primary liturgical patrimony is the Roman Rite. Other posters are correct that Rome does, at times, confuse the terminology (Latin Rite, Roman Church, etc), but by and large, in canonical and other formal Church documents, the Church sui iuris is referred to as the Latin Church. Sometimes you see the term Latin Rites, but this properly refers to the family of rites which developed in the West - including the Roman Rite, Ambrosian Rite, Mozarabic Rite, and others.
There is a Roman Church, and while the term is sometimes used to refer to the Latin Church as a whole, it is actually the proper name of the Diocese of Rome.

In regards to the UGCC not being a communion, I would disagree. In one sense, the entire Catholic Church is a communion of Churches sui iuris - a communion which includes the Latin Church, the UGCC, the MGCC, etc. In another sense, each Church sui iuris, at least those comprised of more than one diocese / eparchy, is a communion in its own right. Keep in mind that, theologically, each diocese / eparchy under a bishop is a particular church…thus the various eparchies of the UGCC or the various dioceses of the Latin Church form a communion. I have no authority to back me on this, but it seems logical to me. As a Latin Catholic, I am in communion with my bishop and he in turn is in communion with the other Latin bishops and with the Pope…the Pope is in communion with the heads of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Vico]

For the record, I wasn’t trying to start a discussion of pre-Vatican II quotes that refer to the Roman Communion (of 23 churches) as “the Roman Church” … but I do find those quotes interesting nevertheless.

Then you should find this interesting, the post Vatican II usage of Holy Apostolic Roman Church or in Italian, Santa Apostolica Romana Chiesa. Paul VI, with the Motu Proprio Ad Purpuratorum Patrum of 11 February 1965, placed the Oriental Patriarch within the College of Cardinals.

• The ** Profession of Faith and the oath of fidelity** by new cardinals:.
  

         *[INDENT]               "I, N., Cardinal of Holy Roman               Church, promise and swear, from this day forth and as long as I               live, to remain faithful to Christ and his Gospel, constantly               obedient to the Holy Apostolic Roman Church, to Blessed Peter in               the person of the Supreme Pontiff, become members of the Roman               clergy and cooperate more directly in Benedict XVI and his               canonically elected successors, always to remain in communion with               the Catholic Church in my words and actions, not to make known to               anyone matters entrusted to me in confidence, the disclosure of               which could bring damage or dishonour to Holy Church, to carry out               diligently and faithfully the duties to which I am called in my               service to the Church, according to the norms laid down by law. So               help me Almighty God."

vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_en.html

[/INDENT]

• Professione di fede e ** giuramento dei nuovi Cardinali**:

“Io N., Cardinale di Santa Romana Chiesa, prometto e giuro di rimanere, da ora e per sempre finché avrò vita, fedele a Cristo e al suo Vangelo, costantemente obbediente alla Santa Apostolica Chiesa Romana, al Beato Pietro nella persona del Sommo Pontefice Benedetto XVI e dei suoi successori canonicamente eletti; di conservare sempre con le parole e con le opere la comunione con la Chiesa cattolica; di non manifestare ad alcuno quanto mi sarà stato affidato da custodire e la cui rivelazione potrebbe arrecare danno o disonore alla Santa Chiesa; di svolgere con grande diligenza e fedeltà i compiti ai quali sono chiamato nel mio servizio alla Chiesa, secondo le norme del diritto. Così mi aiuti Dio onnipotente.”*
*
vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_it.html

Cardinals include:
​

**

• Sfeir, Nasrallah Pierre. Patriarch emeritus of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (1994).
• Naguib, Antonios. Patriarch emeritus of Alexandria of the Copts, Egypt (2010).
• Raï, O.M.M., Béchara Boutros. Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (2012).

 

[twf]

Then you should find this interesting, the post Vatican II usage of Holy Apostolic Roman Church or in Italian, Santa Apostolica Romana Chiesa. Paul VI, with the Motu Proprio Ad Purpuratorum Patrum of 11 February 1965, placed the Oriental Patriarch within the College of Cardinals.

• The ** Profession of Faith and the oath of fidelity** by new cardinals:.
  

         *[INDENT]               "I, N., Cardinal of Holy Roman               Church, promise and swear, from this day forth and as long as I               live, to remain faithful to Christ and his Gospel, constantly               obedient to the Holy Apostolic Roman Church, to Blessed Peter in               the person of the Supreme Pontiff, become members of the Roman               clergy and cooperate more directly in Benedict XVI and his               canonically elected successors, always to remain in communion with               the Catholic Church in my words and actions, not to make known to               anyone matters entrusted to me in confidence, the disclosure of               which could bring damage or dishonour to Holy Church, to carry out               diligently and faithfully the duties to which I am called in my               service to the Church, according to the norms laid down by law. So               help me Almighty God."*

vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_en.html

[/INDENT]

• Professione di fede e ** giuramento dei nuovi Cardinali**:

“Io N., Cardinale di Santa Romana Chiesa, prometto e giuro di rimanere, da ora e per sempre finché avrò vita, fedele a Cristo e al suo Vangelo, costantemente obbediente alla Santa Apostolica Chiesa Romana, al Beato Pietro nella persona del Sommo Pontefice Benedetto XVI e dei suoi successori canonicamente eletti; di conservare sempre con le parole e con le opere la comunione con la Chiesa cattolica; di non manifestare ad alcuno quanto mi sarà stato affidato da custodire e la cui rivelazione potrebbe arrecare danno o disonore alla Santa Chiesa; di svolgere con grande diligenza e fedeltà i compiti ai quali sono chiamato nel mio servizio alla Chiesa, secondo le norme del diritto. Così mi aiuti Dio onnipotente.”*
*
vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_it.html
​

When made a Cardinal, one is made a member of the clergy of Rome. In this context “Holy Apostolic Roman Church” refers to the Diocese of Rome.

 

[phil19034]

Then you should find this interesting, the post Vatican II usage of Holy Apostolic Roman Church or in Italian, Santa Apostolica Romana Chiesa. Paul VI, with the Motu Proprio Ad Purpuratorum Patrum of 11 February 1965, placed the Oriental Patriarch within the College of Cardinals.

• The ** Profession of Faith and the oath of fidelity** by new cardinals:.
  

         *[INDENT]               "I, N., Cardinal of Holy Roman               Church, promise and swear, from this day forth and as long as I               live, to remain faithful to Christ and his Gospel, constantly               obedient to the Holy Apostolic Roman Church, to Blessed Peter in               the person of the Supreme Pontiff, become members of the Roman               clergy and cooperate more directly in Benedict XVI and his               canonically elected successors, always to remain in communion with               the Catholic Church in my words and actions, not to make known to               anyone matters entrusted to me in confidence, the disclosure of               which could bring damage or dishonour to Holy Church, to carry out               diligently and faithfully the duties to which I am called in my               service to the Church, according to the norms laid down by law. So               help me Almighty God."*

vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_en.html

[/INDENT]

• Professione di fede e ** giuramento dei nuovi Cardinali**:

“Io N., Cardinale di Santa Romana Chiesa, prometto e giuro di rimanere, da ora e per sempre finché avrò vita, fedele a Cristo e al suo Vangelo, costantemente obbediente alla Santa Apostolica Chiesa Romana, al Beato Pietro nella persona del Sommo Pontefice Benedetto XVI e dei suoi successori canonicamente eletti; di conservare sempre con le parole e con le opere la comunione con la Chiesa cattolica; di non manifestare ad alcuno quanto mi sarà stato affidato da custodire e la cui rivelazione potrebbe arrecare danno o disonore alla Santa Chiesa; di svolgere con grande diligenza e fedeltà i compiti ai quali sono chiamato nel mio servizio alla Chiesa, secondo le norme del diritto. Così mi aiuti Dio onnipotente.”*
*
vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_it.html

Cardinals include:
​

*

• Sfeir, Nasrallah Pierre. Patriarch emeritus of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (1994).
• Naguib, Antonios. Patriarch emeritus of Alexandria of the Copts, Egypt (2010).
• Raï, O.M.M., Béchara Boutros. Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (2012).

All of this refers to the Diocese of Rome. The role of “Cardinal” only exists for the Diocese of Rome. The title of “Cardinal” is still used by the bishops at home, but it’s only an honorific outside Rome or when not performing business for the Roman Curia.

 

[phil19034]

Peter, I have long been of the opinion that you are correct. Properly speaking, it is the Latin Church, of which the primary liturgical patrimony is the Roman Rite. Other posters are correct that Rome does, at times, confuse the terminology (Latin Rite, Roman Church, etc), but by and large, in canonical and other formal Church documents, the Church sui iuris is referred to as the Latin Church. Sometimes you see the term Latin Rites, but this properly refers to the family of rites which developed in the West - including the Roman Rite, Ambrosian Rite, Mozarabic Rite, and others.
There is a Roman Church, and while the term is sometimes used to refer to the Latin Church as a whole, it is actually the proper name of the Diocese of Rome.

In regards to the UGCC not being a communion, I would disagree. In one sense, the entire Catholic Church is a communion of Churches sui iuris - a communion which includes the Latin Church, the UGCC, the MGCC, etc. In another sense, each Church sui iuris, at least those comprised of more than one diocese / eparchy, is a communion in its own right. Keep in mind that, theologically, each diocese / eparchy under a bishop is a particular church…thus the various eparchies of the UGCC or the various dioceses of the Latin Church form a communion. I have no authority to back me on this, but it seems logical to me. As a Latin Catholic, I am in communion with my bishop and he in turn is in communion with the other Latin bishops and with the Pope…the Pope is in communion with the heads of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

The proper name for the Church is the Catholic Church.

The Latin Church or Roman Catholic Church is part of the Catholic Church. I don’t think “Roman Communion” is proper. We are a number of particular Churches which are all part of the universal Catholic Church.

Calling ourselves a “communion” puts us on par with schematics. There is a reason why we are referred to as The Catholic Church. We should embrace it and the beauty of all our Rites.

 

[Peter_J]

Then you should find this interesting, the post Vatican II usage of Holy Apostolic Roman Church or in Italian, Santa Apostolica Romana Chiesa. Paul VI, with the Motu Proprio Ad Purpuratorum Patrum of 11 February 1965, placed the Oriental Patriarch within the College of Cardinals.

• The ** Profession of Faith and the oath of fidelity** by new cardinals:.
  

         *[INDENT]               "I, N., Cardinal of Holy Roman               Church, promise and swear, from this day forth and as long as I               live, to remain faithful to Christ and his Gospel, constantly               obedient to the Holy Apostolic Roman Church, to Blessed Peter in               the person of the Supreme Pontiff, become members of the Roman               clergy and cooperate more directly in Benedict XVI and his               canonically elected successors, always to remain in communion with               the Catholic Church in my words and actions, not to make known to               anyone matters entrusted to me in confidence, the disclosure of               which could bring damage or dishonour to Holy Church, to carry out               diligently and faithfully the duties to which I am called in my               service to the Church, according to the norms laid down by law. So               help me Almighty God."*

vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_en.html

[/INDENT]

• Professione di fede e ** giuramento dei nuovi Cardinali**:

“Io N., Cardinale di Santa Romana Chiesa, prometto e giuro di rimanere, da ora e per sempre finché avrò vita, fedele a Cristo e al suo Vangelo, costantemente obbediente alla Santa Apostolica Chiesa Romana, al Beato Pietro nella persona del Sommo Pontefice Benedetto XVI e dei suoi successori canonicamente eletti; di conservare sempre con le parole e con le opere la comunione con la Chiesa cattolica; di non manifestare ad alcuno quanto mi sarà stato affidato da custodire e la cui rivelazione potrebbe arrecare danno o disonore alla Santa Chiesa; di svolgere con grande diligenza e fedeltà i compiti ai quali sono chiamato nel mio servizio alla Chiesa, secondo le norme del diritto. Così mi aiuti Dio onnipotente.”*
*
vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/cardinali_documentazione/cardinali_documentazione_generale_it.html

Cardinals include:
​

*

• Sfeir, Nasrallah Pierre. Patriarch emeritus of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (1994).
• Naguib, Antonios. Patriarch emeritus of Alexandria of the Copts, Egypt (2010).
• Raï, O.M.M., Béchara Boutros. Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, Lebanon (2012).

When made a Cardinal, one is made a member of the clergy of Rome. In this context “Holy Apostolic Roman Church” refers to the Diocese of Rome.

Exactly. It does say “Roman Church” but not as a name for the entire Latin Church or the entire Roman Communion.

 

[Peter_J]

Calling ourselves a “communion” puts us on par with schematics. There is a reason why we are referred to as The Catholic Church. We should embrace it and the beauty of all our Rites.

Well, however you may feel about it, the fact of the matter is that we are a communion of 23 churches. If you think you see a logical path from that fact to the idea that we are “on par with schismatics”, then it seems like you’ve got a larger problem to deal with then terminology (in my humble opinion ).

 

[Vico]

Exactly. It does say “Roman Church” but not as a name for the entire Latin Church or the entire Roman Communion.

It is interesting more for what terms it does not use. We know that Latin Church is used in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1571 Since the Second Vatican Council the Latin Church has restored the diaconate "as a proper and permanent rank of the hierarchy,"58 while the Churches of the East had always maintained it. …

 

[Vico]

Exactly. It does say “Roman Church” but not as a name for the entire Latin Church or the entire Roman Communion.

I should also post that the current (15 July 1998) profession clearly does not refer to the Diocese of Rome:I, N., in assuming the office of __________, promise that in my words and in my actions I shall always preserve communion with the Catholic Church.

   With great care       and fidelity I shall carry out the duties incumbent on me toward the       Church, both universal and particular, in which, according to the       provisions of the law, I have been called to exercise my service.

   In fulfilling       the charge entrusted to me in the name of the Church, I shall hold fast to       the deposit of faith in its entirety; I shall faithfully hand it on and       explain it, and I shall avoid any teachings contrary to it.              

   I shall follow       and foster the common discipline of the entire Church and I shall maintain       the observance of all ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in       the Code of Canon Law.
         
   With Christian       obedience I shall follow what the Bishops, as authentic doctors and       teachers of the faith, declare, or what they, as those who govern the       Church, establish.
         
   I shall also       faithfully assist the diocesan Bishops, so that the apostolic activity,       exercised in the name and by mandate of the Church, may be carried out in       communion with the Church.
         
   So help me God,       and God's Holy Gospels on which I place my hand.

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfoath.htm

 

[phil19034]

Well, however you may feel about it, the fact of the matter is that we are a communion of 23 churches. If you think you see a logical path from that fact to the idea that we are “on par with schismatics”, then it seems like you’ve got a larger problem to deal with then terminology (in my humble opinion ).

I’m sorry, but I just don’t like calling us a “communion” (noun). Dictionary.com defines the noun “communion” as the following:

1.) an exchange of thoughts, emotions, etc
2.) possession or sharing in common; participation
3.) (foll by with) strong emotional or spiritual feelings (for) communion with nature
4.) a ***religious group or denomination ***having a common body of beliefs, doctrines, and practices
5.) the ***spiritual union ***held by Christians to exist between individual Christians and Christ, their Church, or their fellow Christians

The Catholic Church is not a denomination. One of the definitions of denominations is “a group having ***a distinctive interpretation of a religious faith ***and usually its own organization.” The Catholic Church is not a denomination because we are not a “distinctive interpretation” ourselves. The Church is also not just a “spiritual union” but also a “physical union.” The Catholic Church united both spiritually and physically through communion (adverb) with the Bishop of Rome.

All Catholic Bishops fit into a hierarchy under the Bishop of Rome. In the Anglican Communion, the Eastern Orthodox communion, Oriental Orthodox communion, etc. there is primacy, but the entire communion isn’t under one hierarchy and under one Bishop like the Catholic Church.

Below is a great definition of “Church” from EWTN

A Church is an assembly of the faithful, hierarchically ordered, both in the entire world – the Catholic Church, or in a certain territory – a particular Church. To be a sacrament (a sign) of the Mystical Body of Christ in the world, a Church must have both a head and members (Col. 1:18). The sacramental sign of Christ the Head is the sacred hierarchy – the bishops, priests and deacons (Eph. 2:19–22). More specifically, it is the local bishop, with his priests and deacons gathered around and assisting him in his office of teaching, sanctifying and governing (Mt. 28:19–20; Titus 1:4–9). The sacramental sign of the Mystical Body is the Christian faithful. Thus the Church of Christ is fully present sacramentally (by way of a sign) wherever there is a sign of Christ the Head, a bishop and those who assist him, and a sign of Christ’s Body, Christian faithful. Each diocese is therefore a particular Church.

The Church of Christ is also present sacramentally in ritual Churches that represent an ecclesiastical tradition of celebrating the sacraments. They are generally organized under a Patriarch, who together with the bishops and other clergy of that ritual Church represent Christ the Head to the people of that tradition. In some cases a Rite is completely coincident with a Church. For example, the Maronite Church with its Patriarch has a Rite not found in any other Church. In other cases, such as the Byzantine Rite, several Churches use the same or a very similar liturgical Rite. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church uses the Byzantine Rite, but this Rite is also found in other Catholic Churches, as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches not in union with Rome.

Finally, the Church of Christ is sacramentally present in the ***Universal or Catholic Church ***spread over the entire world. It is identified by the sign of Christ our Rock, the Bishop of Rome, Successor of St. Peter (Mt. 16:18). To be Catholic particular Churches and ritual Churches must be in communion with this Head, just as the other apostles, and the Churches they founded, were in communion with Peter (Gal. 1:18). Through this communion with Peter and his successors the Church becomes a universal sacrament of salvation in all times and places, even to the end of the age (Mt. 28:20).

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

So in closing… The Catholic Church is more than just a communion. We are the true, one and only, hierarchically, ritualistic, universal Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.

 

[RyanBlack]

I’m sorry, but I just don’t like calling us a “communion” (noun). Dictionary.com defines the noun “communion” as the following:

The Catholic Church is not a denomination. One of the definitions of denominations is “a group having ***a distinctive interpretation of a religious faith ***and usually its own organization.” The Catholic Church is not a denomination because we are not a “distinctive interpretation” ourselves. The Church is also not just a “spiritual union” but also a “physical union.” The Catholic Church united both spiritually and physically through communion (adverb) with the Bishop of Rome.

All Catholic Bishops fit into a hierarchy under the Bishop of Rome. In the Anglican Communion, the Eastern Orthodox communion, Oriental Orthodox communion, etc. there is primacy, but the entire communion isn’t under one hierarchy and under one Bishop like the Catholic Church.

Below is a great definition of “Church” from EWTN

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

So in closing… The Catholic Church is more than just a communion. We are the true, one and only, hierarchically, ritualistic, universal Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.

There’s nothing wrong with referring to the Catholic Church as a communion of churches. As prefect of the CDF, Cardinal Ratzinger used such language in a letter that was approved by John Paul II. From the “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some Aspects of the Church understood as Communion”:

“The universal Church is therefore the Body of the Churches. Hence it is possible to apply the concept of communion in analogous fashion to the union existing among particular Churches, and to see the universal Church as a Communion of Churches.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_28051992_communionis-notio_en.html

 

[phil19034]

There’s nothing wrong with referring to the Catholic Church as a communion of churches. As prefect of the CDF, Cardinal Ratzinger used such language in a letter that was approved by John Paul II. From the “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some Aspects of the Church understood as Communion”:

“The universal Church is therefore the Body of the Churches. Hence it is possible to apply the concept of communion in analogous fashion to the union existing among particular Churches, and to see the universal Church as a Communion of Churches.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_28051992_communionis-notio_en.html

Section II of the document you linked expresses my concern for calling the Catholic Church a “Roman Communion” or “Catholic Communion.”

Especially bullet 8

1. The universal Church is therefore the Body of the Churches(36). Hence it is possible to apply the concept of communion in analogous fashion to the union existing among particular Churches, and to see the universal Church as a Communion of Churches. Sometimes, however, the idea of a “communion of particular Churches” is presented in such a way as to weaken the concept of the unity of the Church at the visible and institutional level. Thus it is asserted that every particular Church is a subject complete in itself, and that the universal Church is the result of a reciprocal recognition on the part of the particular Churches. This ecclesiological unilateralism, which impoverishes not only the concept of the universal Church but also that of the particular Church, betrays an insufficient understanding of the concept of communion. As history shows, when a particular Church has sought to become self-sufficient, and has weakened its real communion with the universal Church and with its living and visible centre, its internal unity suffers too, and it finds itself in danger of losing its own freedom in the face of the various forces of slavery and exploitation(37).

 

[RyanBlack]

Section II of the document you linked expresses my concern for calling the Catholic Church a “Roman Communion” or “Catholic Communion.”

Especially bullet 8

I would never refer to the Catholic Church as a “Roman Communion” or the “Catholic Communion.” However, there is nothing wrong with saying that the Catholic Church is a communion of churches, because she is exactly that. There are 23 particular churches in communion with each other that constitute the Catholic Church.

 

[phil19034]

I would never refer to the Catholic Church as a “Roman Communion” or the “Catholic Communion.” However, there is nothing wrong with saying that the Catholic Church is a communion of churches, because she is exactly that. There are 23 particular churches in communion with each other that constitute the Catholic Church.

I agree. My whole post was in reference to calling the Catholic Church the “Roman Communion” which I’m totally against.