River of Life

[The_heretic]

In this life a man can seek endlessly for Truth. He can claim holiness or righteousness. He can seek an endless supply of wealth and materialism. He can seek knowledge in the name of science or virtue. He can peel the layers of reality like an onion. He can claim that he is something more than he actually is.
But the fact remains that in Truth you are nothing more than a fish out of water. To such persons that seek holiness, righteousness, materialism, knowledge, whatever your cause may be—the thought I just placed in your head is too humbling an experience, an offense that no man would ever choose to accept.
Imagine the humility that you face in the event that such a thing would be necessarily true—that you are nothing more than a fish out of water. You say that this tears apart the dignity of the human soul. You holy ones, how can you have humility if you have dignity? Isn’t humility the absence of dignity?
The fact is that you are merely a fish out of water swimming through the river of life. You don’t know where the stream leads you and you are in such a hurry to get to the end with your hapless pursuits that you don’t realize that nothing really matters. Enjoy the swim through life; but you can’t because that you know in life that there is only one certainty—and that is death; since you are afraid of death—you become a fish with a voracious appetite and in essence pollute my lovely stream into a river of madness, the sum of your insanity. You become creatures of habit in your endless pursuits of insanity that you insist to exist in my lovely stream, I on the other hand wish you would all just cease to exist and come to realize that you are nothing more than a fish out of water swimming through the river of life.
Death is a certainty, indeed. Death is merely a waterfall in the river of life. No one wants to go over the waterfall but the river has currents that drive you forth towards it. So you go over the waterfall and in the end you come to realize that you worried for absolutely nothing. Then the river of life continues and you find yourself once again swimming through its current; then you start to worry once again because you don’t know where the river of life takes you; because everyone born in spirit knows not where the spirit takes them; but if you can discern that the river of life is in fact eternal life because if a river of life ended it wouldn’t be a river of life; but a river of inevitable death.
Since it is a river of life it is eternal—that the river never ends; so what are you going to do—take up every cause and burden imaginable and pollute my lovely stream once again with your insanity or are you just going to swim through my lovely stream.
Can you see the word of God with crystal clarity now? Take no care for your life, it says in scripture because you are just a fish swimming through the river of life.
A man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and he pulled up a whole bunch of little fish. God calls you a fish of which this image of yourself you choose not to accept because you have the dignity of a man. Like I said, you holy ones who claim humility is a part of holiness. How can you have humility when you have dignity? Is not humility the absence of dignity?
Why do you insist to cling to the beam that is within your eye? You can deny it all you want but the fact remains—you are simply a fish out of water, swimming through the river of life.
In that you find neither beauty nor relief because you insist to persist in your insanity.

(part 1)

 

[The_heretic]

I told you that you neither find beauty nor relief in anything I said.
You say that science is fact and that evolution is true. Evolution says that all life originated in water–that at some point fish came upon land and evolved into what we are today; so in scientific fact, you came from a fish. You say that you came from an ape; but I say that the ape came from a fish. So when I say that you are merely a fish out of water, I speak the truth because according to evolution, all life evolved from the water–making you nothing more than a fish out of water–an image which you fail to accept because you have dignity; as I have spoken. You are too high and mighty in your own mind that you refuse to accept this image of truth–that you are nothing more than a fish out of water.
In the ocean fish come in many shapes and sizes. Apparently on land since the fish evolved–life on land also comes in many shapes and sizes.
Since man has the dignity of what he calls the human soul–he has failed to accept this humbling experience that I put forth into proposition–that man is nothing more than a fish out of water–that can be supported by the evidence of evolution that all life evolved from water–which fish came on land from the water.

Life is merely a dream. You are the imagination of yourself. There is no such thing as reality but the one we forge from the imagination. Sure, the imagination, as we are given, is a valid tool to assess what reality should be; but you have to question whether or not you are having the proper dreams.

Man gets his notion of moral fitness or values from education. Man is bound by his own reasoning which has been restrained by those who have educated him because he assumes that those who educated him were fit to give him his values. Man cannot perceive what he has not yet imagined because he is bound by reason–through the adaptation of his own weaknesses. Mans’ energy is restrained by his reason; therefore he cannot perceive beyond his own reasoning skills because those who have bound his energy are the same that restrain his imagination according to another’s will to power–which is the forge of reality which one must consider in order to unleash his power of imagination from his reasoning.
This is possible through what we call transcendence. Transcendence is that which goes beyond ones own reasoning. It is the expansion of energy which we call imagination that breaks the barrier of which we call reason. Reason is merely the outward circumference of energy–that which is called imagination.
According to man, reason is good. Energy is evil.
Good is the passive that obeys reason. Evil is the aggressive that surpasses reason.
Without the expansion of energy, reason could never be more than what is accepted. If it were not for the genius that refutes reason, we could do nothing other than repeat the same dull around again–of which man has adapted himself comfortably to; as he assumes that the world that has been granted him is none other than the best possible dream imaginable; therefore he has come to lack the perception that everyone around him is full of ****; and has instead chosen to fill himself with everyone else’s ****.
That is why I say get out of my lovely stream because you have polluted it with your insane notions that everything within man’s reason–that everything within his energy should be made manifest; for instance, take a look at Hollywood. What comes from the imagination; but every creature from hell imaginable–and you call it entertainment.

(part 2)

 

[The_heretic]

I’ll tell you one more time. You can’t accept what I speak about because you have the dignity of your soul.
**If you strip away your dignity then you will have humility **and reason to accept what I have offered to you; but since you have dignity–you fail to accept what I have revealed to you. You are the imagination of yourself. Whatever “games” I play with my words are the same games that everyone else plays because that is what words tend to do–is twist perception; but you are stuck in a perceptual loop and never does it come upon your mind that you are nothing more than a fish out of water swimming through the river of life–in that, you find no beauty nor relief because you insist that in your tendencies, to complicate reality further than it should be allowed; because you are all insane–that you never consider because you have the dignity of your own souls; therefore you cannot see the depths in my words that are pondered; but merely see the surface of things that you consider to be, yet, as I can demonstrate–appearances are deceiving, even when it comes to words.
Every word opens a perceptual doorway. You travel through the text of words, where ever they may be and only come to the perception that any text you come across can only be interpreted by the self in one way. Never do you consider that since others may have different interpretations of the same text–that you too can have many interpretations of the same text.
The eye altering alters all. This preceding statement can be read in more than one finite perception. Do you see?
Of course not because you only see what is within your reason to see, interpreting the sentence as only one finite perception; but he who sees the infinite in all things sees God.
Here let me open the perception of that sentence.
The eye altering alters all.
Do you know how to alter your eye as you read? I told you before that every word is a door that is walked through in perception. With the hand of a master, I am able to hide things from you in plain view. Allow me to demonstrate what I am talking to you about in a little poem I wrote.

confused eyes seas
of oceanic decor
adore spring opens

rich summer wine drips
breaking of bread swim like fish
hopeful rhythm scene

night of falling leaf
spinning downwards on the ground
resting on the path

snow flake pearl of light
melt like water in fire sun
one spring to barren

The eye altering alters all.

confused eye sees
of oceanic decor
a door springs open

rich summer whine drips
breaking of bread swim like fish
hopeful rhythm seen

night of falling leave
spinning down words on the ground
resting on the path

snow flake pearl of light
melt like water in fire son
one spring to bare in

The eye altering alters all.

That is one finite perception; as I said, every word within a text is a doorway into a perception. Usually, whenever someone reads a text they come to a conclusive-finite perception of what the texts says; but in that, we fail to acknowledge that others come to different perceptions of the same text. Eventually, we could come to conclude that since others have different perceptions we should alter our perceptions to consider the infinite possibilities of perception because the man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind.
The eye altering alters all. Do you know how to alter your eye as you read because the man with the infinite perception is the man that sees God. The man who sees the infinite in all things sees God.
Like I said, the hand of the master has hidden things from you in plain view because he knows what is within your will power and reasoning–that writes words and the doorways that you walk through into your finite perception.
To the devourer it appears as if the prolific was in his chains but it is not so, the devourer just receives the excess of his delights. When I write, I consider the words or doorways that you will walk through; therefore I am able to hide things from you in plain view because I do not cast my pearls before swine.

(part 3)

 

[The_heretic]

Like I said before. Your energy or imagination is bound by reason. If you learn, as Jim Morrison said, Break on through to the other side–overcome your limitations of reasoning; instead of looking at life through a microscope–that’s the narrow chink in your primal brain, I will give you a kaleidoscope to look through; as all words break up and dance before your eyes.
kaleidoscope: an instrument containing loose bits of colored material (as glass or plastic) between two flat plates and two plane mirrors so placed that changes of position of the bits of material are reflected in an endless variety of patterns.
Or in other words, as I spinning downwards to the ground–words reflected in an endless variety of patterns.

You can’t teach a blind person to see colors. You–are as blind as they come. Have a good life. Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out.
I am the Truth. You just don’t see the Truth that I have spoken because you want to hang on to your world of mediocrity; and you don’t ever consider that your lives are mediocre and vain.
If I told you heavenly things you would not believe them because I have spoken of worldly things and you did not believe them. So, after your death, when you find that all I have spoken to you is true–then you will come to realize that I was your Father.
(For my Father is the husbandman that purges me and it brings forth much fruit.)
But right now as I speak, you take me for a fool; but consider this in your afterlife–The fool sees not the same tree as the Wiseman.

They say that the earth was cursed by God because someone ate a piece of fruit. The fool sees not the same tree as the Wiseman; As the wise man would say that this was Adam and Eve’s mistake.
However, the fool would say, that is the dumbest thing I ever heard. The earth is cursed because someone ate a piece of fruit? Whoever becomes a fool I will make him into a wise man.
Whoever hath ears to hear Let him hear!
The mouth of wisdom is a rod of iron who hides things from the wise and prudent.

(part 4)

 

[The_heretic]

Real poetry doesn’t say anything, it just ticks off possibilities. Opens all doors. You can walk through any one that suits you.
–Jim Morrison

2 Peter: 1
20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

The bible consists of poetry. Poetry is meant to be interpreted; every word is a doorway into perception. How is it that the God fearing people even choose not to step through any other doorway than the one that has been assigned to them by the church.
Jesus says, no one comes to the Father but through me. How is it the church says no one comes to the Father but through us; “since we are the authority of scripture.”
Any other poem you read, you interpret it to yourself. Are you so blind that you see not that the bible, itself, consists of poetry; then how is it that you say, We are under the authority of the church; but the church is under the authority of Jesus; but Jesus says no one comes to the Father but through me (not any church)?

(end)

 

[calchiquita]

Well, I say being the humblest servant of a wise, mighty, loving king is a great dignity.

 

[FightingFat]

Yeah but you got that a bit twisted mate.

The Bible is a book of poetry, not a book of rules, you’re right. But if you do not have the right key, you will not be able to open the door to its secrets. The Church is not an institution in the way you have decribed it-- it is us, a living body of people. Why would you not interpret the writings of that organisation without the wisdom that it has developed over the last 2,000 years?

The Church does not restrict you, it lifts you up on its shoulders so that you can reach heaven and go beyond your understanding of existence here and now.

 

[porthos11]

Stuff like this belongs in a blog, not a discussion forum.

 

[The_heretic]

Yeah but you got that a bit twisted mate.

The Bible is a book of poetry, not a book of rules, you’re right. But if you do not have the right key, you will not be able to open the door to its secrets. The Church is not an institution in the way you have decribed it-- it is us, a living body of people. Why would you not interpret the writings of that organisation without the wisdom that it has developed over the last 2,000 years?

The Church does not restrict you, it lifts you up on its shoulders so that you can reach heaven and go beyond your understanding of existence here and now.

Yes I agree the church is good, in the way that it has carried scripture throughout millenia; actually the current version, King James Bible has only been around since like the 1700’s or something. The text is a masterpiece, however, you cannot ignore the history of the church and where it’s wisdom has led it–as they being the wise and prudent ones. Were they really abiding in Christ when they burnt and executed witches and heretics; or when they called crusade after crusade–since they overlooked the passages such as; Those who live by the sword shall fall by the sword and turn the other cheek. Or when they wiped out entire native cultures in the name of God?

Sure, these things have come to pass and now the church is in a period of washing the blood off it’s hands; and it does have a bloody history. That reminds me, how about when they preach hell and damnation to sinners when they should be speaking about forgiveness; as forgiveness being the highest principle of the teachings of Christ.

And as every tree is known by it’s fruits–are these the fruits of a good tree. Does not a good tree produce good fruit and a corrupt–corrupt fruit. Burning people alive is not good fruit.

They say that the fear of God is the beginning of knowledge; but they also say that perfect love casts out fear. If God is perfect love then how is the fear of God relevant to anything the church teaches?

Look at how wise and prudent they are–that they are even willing to overlook this:

1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Does not the church forbid it’s priests and nuns to marry? And does not the church preach to abstain from certain meats, like marijuana. Marijuana is a meat, I can prove it.

Genesis 1:
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Fact# Marijuana is an herb bearing seed.

Do you see the hypocrisies I am pointing out.
They are wise and prudent; and their conscience has been seared by a hot iron; as they are so afraid of going to hell that they make long prayers and offerings in sacrifice to it.

 

[FCEGM]

Marijuana is a meat, I can prove it.

I think you already have.

 

[jrabs]

Since I cannot seem to make it through your long winded posts - I’ll just say welcome.

and, can you sum it up it 10 words or less next time?

 

[FightingFat]

Woooooooooooooooow there hoss!!! Gosh you’ve been misled!!!

Yes I agree the church is good, in the way that it has carried scripture throughout millenia; actually the current version, King James Bible has only been around since like the 1700’s or something.

You know this isn’t a Catholic Bible though, right?

Were they really abiding in Christ when they burnt and executed witches

That was the protestants. No Catholics burnt witches.

and heretics; or when they called crusade after crusade–since they overlooked the passages such as; Those who live by the sword shall fall by the sword and turn the other cheek. Or when they wiped out entire native cultures in the name of God?

You’re making grandiose sweeping statements about things you know NOTHING about my friend. For example, there was a massive theological debate at the time of the first Crusade about what the New Testament said about violence. Jesus told Peter to put away his sword as you say, and he told people to turn the other cheek in Matthew 5, as you say, but he also told the Apostles that the Roman Centurion had more faith than anyone he had met, even in Jeruslaem. Surely, it was argued, this passage demonstrates that being a soldier involved in the persecution of war did not mean that one was out of favour with God? Violence was a fact of life in those days. People had to make decisions about violence even more than those of us fortunate enough to live in secure organised democracies do today. Is it right to watch an innocent woman be beaten and raped? Or would you step in in an attempt to help her? Some times, a Christian has no alternative but to use violence- although always to the minumum necessary.

The Cistercian order were a new monastic force that advocated action as opposed to the prayerfull powerhouse that most monastic orders were at that time. They said that the Crusaders were laying dwn their lives in defence of their fellow Christians. Remeber- Jerusalem was Christian and was invaded by the Muslims. Islam was the agressor and the Crusaders were organised to repel the attack.

Sure, these things have come to pass and now the church is in a period of washing the blood off it’s hands; and it does have a bloody history. That reminds me, how about when they preach hell and damnation to sinners when they should be speaking about forgiveness; as forgiveness being the highest principle of the teachings of Christ.

They? Don’t you mean we? Or you? Why do you say we don’t? I’ve never heard a sermon about hell and damnation-- that the Puritans I think you’ll find! Catholic Christians preach about the Good News of Christ Jesus-- that God loves us all.

And as every tree is known by it’s fruits–are these the fruits of a good tree. Does not a good tree produce good fruit and a corrupt–corrupt fruit. Burning people alive is not good fruit.

What about the good fruit? Was there any good fruit?

They say that the fear of God is the beginning of knowledge; but they also say that perfect love casts out fear. If God is perfect love then how is the fear of God relevant to anything the church teaches?

This statement demonstrates you have no idea what the Church teaches.

Look at how wise and prudent they are–that they are even willing to overlook this:

1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3: Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4: For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Does not the church forbid it’s priests and nuns to marry?

No, celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine and it has quite an interesting history. There are married priests in my diocese.

And does not the church preach to abstain from certain meats, like marijuana. Marijuana is a meat, I can prove it.

Go on then.

Genesis 1:
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Fact# Marijuana is an herb bearing seed.

Do you see the hypocrisies I am pointing out.

Only in your own argument. Like I said, you need to have a lesson or two in how to interpret scripture (hint- none of it wa swritten in English, so hanging on to words isn’t a great way to start).
:whacky:

 

[FightingFat]

I think you already have.

 

[jrabs]

And a special Thanks goes out to FightingFat -

who, it appears, managed to make it through the initial posts.
:tiphat:

 

[The_heretic]

Woooooooooooooooow there hoss!!! Gosh you’ve been misled!!!



You know this isn’t a Catholic Bible though, right?

That was the protestants. No Catholics burnt witches.

You’re making grandiose sweeping statements about things you know NOTHING about my friend. For example, there was a massive theological debate at the time of the first Crusade about what the New Testament said about violence. Jesus told Peter to put away his sword as you say, and he told people to turn the other cheek in Matthew 5, as you say, but he also told the Apostles that the Roman Centurion had more faith than anyone he had met, even in Jeruslaem. Surely, it was argued, this passage demonstrates that being a soldier involved in the persecution of war did not mean that one was out of favour with God? Violence was a fact of life in those days. People had to make decisions about violence even more than those of us fortunate enough to live in secure organised democracies do today. Is it right to watch an innocent woman be beaten and raped? Or would you step in in an attempt to help her? Some times, a Christian has no alternative but to use violence- although always to the minumum necessary.

The Cistercian order were a new monastic force that advocated action as opposed to the prayerfull powerhouse that most monastic orders were at that time. They said that the Crusaders were laying dwn their lives in defence of their fellow Christians. Remeber- Jerusalem was Christian and was invaded by the Muslims. Islam was the agressor and the Crusaders were organised to repel the attack.

They? Don’t you mean we? Or you? Why do you say we don’t? I’ve never heard a sermon about hell and damnation-- that the Puritans I think you’ll find! Catholic Christians preach about the Good News of Christ Jesus-- that God loves us all.

What about the good fruit? Was there any good fruit?

This statement demonstrates you have no idea what the Church teaches.

No, celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine and it has quite an interesting history. There are married priests in my diocese.

Go on then.



Only in your own argument. Like I said, you need to have a lesson or two in how to interpret scripture (hint- none of it wa swritten in English, so hanging on to words isn’t a great way to start).
:whacky:

First of all you’re the one that doesn’t know your history. The Roman Catholic church did in fact send out inquisitors during the middle ages to try and burn or execute witches and heretics. I would like to argue the rest with you but there really is no point if you’re in denial of this simple fact.

 

[FightingFat]

First of all you’re the one that doesn’t know your history. The Roman Catholic church did in fact send out inquisitors during the middle ages to try and burn or execute witches and heretics. I would like to argue the rest with you but there really is no point if you’re in denial of this simple fact.

Come on, don’t back down on me now…If you want to talk about the inquisitions, no problem- let’s do it. Which inquisition did you have in mind?

BTW What do you think about my response regarding the Crusades, did it make any sense to you?

 

[LilyM]

Genesis 1:
29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Fact# Marijuana is an herb bearing seed.

Really? Every SINGLE herb bearing seed and every SINGLE fruit of a tree yielding seed? Have you ANY idea how many lethally poisonous plants are out there that fit that description? If you think all of them were given to you to eat by God then be my guest.

 

[cazayoux]

First of all you’re the one that doesn’t know your history. The Roman Catholic church did in fact send out inquisitors during the middle ages to try and burn or execute witches and heretics. I would like to argue the rest with you but there really is no point if you’re in denial of this simple fact.

Heh heh. Silly philosopher, you should be seeking truth.
Thinkers have more ears than mouth if you know what I mean.
You are more of a mouthpiece than a thinker.

Long winded oration.
Short answers to responses.

Is this a dialog or are we just supposed to see your many words and bow down.

The ‘inquisitors’ had nothing to do with witches.
The Church was afraid that mohammedians were infiltrating the Church’s ranks pretending to be Christian. The inquistors were looking for Muslim posers.

 

[lak611]

Yes I agree the church is good, in the way that it has carried scripture throughout millenia; actually the current version, King James Bible has only been around since like the 1700’s or something. The text is a masterpiece, however, you cannot ignore the history of the church and where it’s wisdom has led it–as they being the wise and prudent ones. And does not the church preach to abstain from certain meats, like marijuana. Marijuana is a eat, I can prove it.

The King James Version was originally published in 1611.

Marijuana is not a meat. It is a plant. There is nothing in the Bible or the Catechism about marijuana. What is your point? :whacky:

 

[richardeekw]

Dear Mr heretic

You started this thread with a lengthy quotation.

**If will be good if you can let us know the

• Title of the Book or article / Author / Publisher or
• The source of your thoughts. or
• It is your own Philosophical Ideas /B]

We can then try to get to this source in order to discuss meaningfully.

God Blsess**