Roadblock!!

[htk553]

DD2007;4786882:

I second that. Thank you, OP, for posting this! As a person who is waiting eagerly to receive the Holy Eucharist because of my paperwork for annulment due to “lack of form”, and therefore I am still “living in mortal sin” with my husband of nearly 8 years, I feel you. I could have just not said anything in the first place about my previous marriage, since there is no way anyone would have known here about my 1 1/2 yr marriage to someone in a different state over 10 years ago. That would be, well, LYING. I would be clear by now, (yet I feel awful for those who have to actually go through a big tribunal trial ordeal, paying sometimes thousands of dollars ) if this were so. So if I’m a big fat liar, being in a new town and all, I could just go to Communion like no big deal and never pay a toll and never suffer “consequences” from the Church. Granted, I understand it’s on a person’s soul when they lie, and the Eucharist is empty in meaning to them, which is horribly sad, however, this is why I told the truth though! My point is people who are repentant are wandering around without a pass for the Sacred Body and Blood (that we all need

, according to Scripture and the teachings of the Church), but merely due to administrative issues remain for years, at times, considered ineligible. Meanwhile, lost souls consume the Eucharist and thinking they’re OK yet remain lost! Does anyone care about* them*?!?
SO the purpose, as everyone keeps telling me, is to allow me to properly feel the consequences of my actions, so that I can learn that I’ve sinned, even though I have apparently already acknowledged that I have sinned, and definitely felt consequences of my actions enough to repent and return to the Church and seek forgiveness DESPITE obstacles?
Yes,*** I *** made my mistakes in the past. I have no one to blame for the state of mortal sin I am in but myself, yet I can repent all day, and feel horrible all day, and know in my heart that I’m sorry and that God would forgive me, yet the Church hasn’t yet determined I’m worthy, and that’s all that matters. Thankfully, my priest paid my $50 processing fee, since my husband, quite practically, noted that in these tough times we can’t afford such things in lieu of putting food on the table for our children. If you’re watching, Fr, THANK YOU! Yet I’m still struggling with this and want a better explanation.

Awesome post

 

[htk553]

seekdatruth I wish we were related. You could be my proof of no baptism
Feel free to PM me anytime

 

[seekdatruth]

seekdatruth I wish we were related. You could be my proof of no baptism
Feel free to PM me anytime

OK, but you have to clear up your inbox!

 

[TheDoctor]

Sponsor:

We will need addresses/phone numbers of your family so they can vouch that you haven’t been baptized.

Me: Umm that’s gonna be a problem because both of my parent’s are dead and I am the elder in the family.

Sponsor: If we can’t get this information, we will have to have a formal tribunal hearing in order for you to become Catholic

Me: <------I actually made that face.

I start thinking to myself:

Is a hearing really necessary?
Why can’t the church just take my word for it?

Normally, if this was just a baptism question, the Church would reconditionally baptize you and move on. I think your Sponsor is mixing up the baptism issue with your marriage issue.

Depending on the baptismal situation with your wife, whether or not you were validly baptized determines if you have a valid sacramental marriage (i.e. if both of you were unbaptized, then your annulment is pretty much in the bag).

Since the Church assumes marriages are valid unless proven otherwise, the Tribunal may require proof that you were not baptized to rebut the supposition of a valid marriage.

You need to find out more information as to why this is needed.

 

[puzzleannie]

Synodal Legislation on sacraments from our diocese. This is canon law, particular law of the diocese

SACRAMENT OF CONFIRMATION
(Canons 879-896)
“2. A Baptismal certificate is required to register the candidate for the preparation program and
reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation

.
cdob.org, click on synodal legislation

you can also look a few pages further on marriages and annulments, and on the same website find link to the full document (several volumes) on law of the diocese. Every diocese has the same thing, all based on universal canon law.

There is little point in getting angry at the parish staff, who in being deputed by the pastor, are carrying out their duties according to canon law, which governs the administration of the sacraments.

OP’s problem can be readily addressed by speaking directly to the pastor, who will gladly refer him to the diocesan office if he is unable to handle unusual situations on his own.

 

[seekdatruth]

Synodal Legislation on sacraments from our diocese. This is canon law, particular law of the diocese

.
cdob.org, click on synodal legislation

you can also look a few pages further on marriages and annulments, and on the same website find link to the full document (several volumes) on law of the diocese. Every diocese has the same thing, all based on universal canon law.

There is little point in getting angry at the parish staff, who in being deputed by the pastor, are carrying out their duties according to canon law, which governs the administration of the sacraments.

OP’s problem can be readily addressed by speaking directly to the pastor, who will gladly refer him to the diocesan office if he is unable to handle unusual situations on his own.

Did I miss something? Who’s mad at parish staff or pastors? In fact, I was very thankful that my pastor paid my processing fee.
There’s no question about whether or not requiring certificates and affidavits, etc. for proof is indeed canon law. The question is WHY. Why does everything have to hang on paperwork and fees, when the state of people’s immortal souls are at stake, especially since the dishonest are the ones who usually don’t get penalized? Also, if the administrative and proof on paper aspect of this is necessary, and the candidate is alone the one responsible for his/her records, and the parish office cannot be held responsible or expected to be perfect, why are those personally-kept records not sufficient?
“That’s the way it is” is not a sufficient answer here.

 

[htk553]

Did I miss something? Who’s mad at parish staff or pastors? In fact, I was very thankful that my pastor paid my processing fee.
There’s no question about whether or not requiring certificates and affidavits, etc. for proof is indeed canon law. The question is WHY. Why does everything have to hang on paperwork and fees, when the state of people’s immortal souls are at stake, especially since the dishonest are the ones who usually don’t get penalized? Also, if the administrative and proof on paper aspect of this is necessary, and the candidate is alone the one responsible for his/her records, and the parish office cannot be held responsible or expected to be perfect, why are those personally-kept records not sufficient?
“That’s the way it is” is not a sufficient answer here.

puzzleannie- I for one am not mad at parish staff. I was told these things by my sponsor not staff. Thank you for the link though

 

[htk553]

OK, but you have to clear up your inbox!

Inbox is cleared now

 

[LilyM]

Did I miss something? Who’s mad at parish staff or pastors? In fact, I was very thankful that my pastor paid my processing fee.
There’s no question about whether or not requiring certificates and affidavits, etc. for proof is indeed canon law. The question is WHY. Why does everything have to hang on paperwork and fees, when the state of people’s immortal souls are at stake, especially since the dishonest are the ones who usually don’t get penalized? Also, if the administrative and proof on paper aspect of this is necessary, and the candidate is alone the one responsible for his/her records, and the parish office cannot be held responsible or expected to be perfect, why are those personally-kept records not sufficient?
“That’s the way it is” is not a sufficient answer here.

Because it is WAY too easy for people to lie or abuse the process if they’re not required to back up what they say with documentary proof.

For example, someone who is unscrupulous and knows that an annulment is easier if one or both parties is unbaptised wouldn’t hesitate to lie and say they had never been baptised. Easier if they knew they wouldn’t be required to provide sworn statements. An affidavit being a legal document, there are legal penalties for making false statements in one, which gives pause for thought to plenty of would-be liars.

Or knowing that both parties being baptised would make it difficult, someone who wasn’t baptised, but really doesn’t want the annulment to go through for whatever reason, again would be tempted to lie and say they HAD been baptised. Again, the fact that you then have to cough up a birth certificate or affidavit as evidence makes it more difficult.

 

[htk553]

Because it is WAY too easy for people to lie or abuse the process if they’re not required to back up what they say with documentary proof.

For example, someone who is unscrupulous and knows that an annulment is easier if one or both parties is unbaptised wouldn’t hesitate to lie and say they had never been baptised. Easier if they knew they wouldn’t be required to provide sworn statements. An affidavit being a legal document, there are legal penalties for making false statements in one, which gives pause for thought to plenty of would-be liars.

Or knowing that both parties being baptised would make it difficult, someone who wasn’t baptised, but really doesn’t want the annulment to go through for whatever reason, again would be tempted to lie and say they HAD been baptised. Again, the fact that you then have to cough up a birth certificate or affidavit as evidence makes it more difficult.

No offense here but it almost sounds like a person is guilty until proven innocent.

Begin humor part of post…

I could see a person lying to get into the Catholic church if they offered some sort of prize. Like: the Ronco Pocket Fisherman. Who wouldn’t want a Ronco Pocket Fisherman? Ad slogan could be: Great addition to any Catholic tackle box.

TV commercial could go like this:
Announcer Guy with excited voice: Not only do you get a relationship with God and Jesus but we’ll throw in the Pocket Fisherman and 3 saint lures absolutely free and if you call in the next 15 minutes, we’ll even add a plastic Jesus for your dashboard.
Operators are standing by. Call now!

End humor part of post

 

[seekdatruth]

No offense here but it almost sounds like a person is guilty until proven innocent.

Begin humor part of post…

I could see a person lying to get into the Catholic church if they offered some sort of prize. Like: the Ronco Pocket Fisherman. Who wouldn’t want a Ronco Pocket Fisherman? Ad slogan could be: Great addition to any Catholic tackle box.

TV commercial could go like this:
Announcer Guy with excited voice: Not only do you get a relationship with God and Jesus but we’ll throw in the Pocket Fisherman and 3 saint lures absolutely free and if you call in the next 15 minutes, we’ll even add a plastic Jesus for your dashboard.
Operators are standing by. Call now!

End humor part of post

Yes, WHY would someone lie to the Catholic Church about all this? If they are just there for the little white cookie, and they had no scruples, they would just go up and TAKE IT. Who would know?