Rob Bell's New Book and Controversy

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Some of you, especially if you follow Protestant news, may may know their is ongoing ‘scandel’ based on Pastor Rob Bell’s new book. I haven’t read the book and don’t plan to, but have read and watched at little about this latest brouhaha. Essentially he seems to questioning the doctrine of hell - what I have found curious is the overwelming pushback from fellow pastors/theolgians. Now from what I have read I don’t agree with Bell, but the questions are legitmate although somewhat coated with that fuzzy post modernism that sometimes make be scratch my head. I have read of the condemning responses but not any answers from his fellow Protestant Collegues. I don’t have a answer either but am not afraid of saying so or simply saying I will leave that in the All Wise, All Knowing, All Loving Hands of the Father.
 
Honestly, I would recommend to all Catholics to STAY AWAY from all of Rob Bell’s books.

Rob Bell is a very intelligent (and i’m sure, very sincere) man. I have actually been to his “church” and heard him speak a long time ago–2003 or 2004? (I was a Protestant for 13 years, 6 of which were in Michigan near his Church and I had lots of mutual friends with him)
When he speaks about more “spiritual”/ meditative aspects of Christianity, he is very inspirational, and he is a great speaker and writer. However, I would NOT get my theology from this guy and I would be careful not to be drawn into his ideas because he DOES make them so compelling. If someone gave you a glass of wine and told you it was 99% Chateau Lafite 1787 (a very rare and expensive wine), would you still want to drink it if you found out it was 1% strychnine? That’s how I feel about his books. But hey, if you somehow have developed a tolerance for strychnine, then go for it I guess.

Catholics need to be careful because even though we should try to have as much unity with possible with our “separated brethren”, many Catholics are not aware that they are being intentionally targeted by many non-Catholic groups that are actually anti-catholic and believe all Catholics are on their way to hell (I’m not talking about Rob Bell here). I have known Churches that have various “ministries” which are specifically designed to draw Catholics away from their faith and they are very sneaky about it. One Church I went to (a “mega-church”) was known for its ministry to “ex-catholics” and I actually saw a play there that was supposedly about the life and passion of Christ. There were many characters, including all the disciples, Mary Magdalen, other people not mentioned, but eluded to in the bible (wives of certain men etc). It showed many scenes from the life of Christ, but someone was strangely absent–Mary. Mary Magdalen was at the foot of the cross, but Mary–Mother of God—was no where to be seen. They had not made a character for the most significant figure in the life of Christ. How can that be? Because they were anti-catholic and they didn’t want any of their “ex-Catholic” audience to remember our Blessed Lady. Take heed, because this is a real thing–many, many “evangelicals” are actively working on ways to get Catholics away from the Church, especially “weak” or young Catholics.

So, yes, Rob Bell may help you see things in a new perspective and have more of an “open mind” which for some people is a very good thing, but there is nothing that compares with the good ol’ Orthodox theology of the Catholic Church.

If you want mysticism and a new way of seeing God, I suggest reading about the lives of the Saints, and reading things that many of them wrote. You can be certain that they will not lead you astray.

peace
 
waxwing said:
Hi

Some of you, especially if you follow Protestant news, may may know their is ongoing ‘scandel’ based on Pastor Rob Bell’s new book. I haven’t read the book and don’t plan to, but have read and watched at little about this latest brouhaha. Essentially he seems to questioning the doctrine of hell - what I have found curious is the overwelming pushback from fellow pastors/theolgians. Now from what I have read I don’t agree with Bell, but the questions are legitmate although somewhat coated with that fuzzy post modernism that sometimes make be scratch my head. I have read of the condemning responses but not any answers from his fellow Protestant Collegues. I don’t have a answer either but am not afraid of saying so or simply saying I will leave that in the All Wise, All Knowing, All Loving Hands of the Father.
Click to expand...
Read the book.

Bell doesn’t deny Hell.
 
AnaTurin said:
Honestly, I would recommend to all Catholics to STAY AWAY from all of Rob Bell’s books.

Rob Bell is a very intelligent (and i’m sure, very sincere) man. I have actually been to his “church” and heard him speak a long time ago–2003 or 2004? (I was a Protestant for 13 years, 6 of which were in Michigan near his Church and I had lots of mutual friends with him)
When he speaks about more “spiritual”/ meditative aspects of Christianity, he is very inspirational, and he is a great speaker and writer. However, I would NOT get my theology from this guy and I would be careful not to be drawn into his ideas because he DOES make them so compelling. If someone gave you a glass of wine and told you it was 99% Chateau Lafite 1787 (a very rare and expensive wine), would you still want to drink it if you found out it was 1% strychnine? That’s how I feel about his books. But hey, if you somehow have developed a tolerance for strychnine, then go for it I guess.

Catholics need to be careful because even though we should try to have as much unity with possible with our “separated brethren”, many Catholics are not aware that they are being intentionally targeted by many non-Catholic groups that are actually anti-catholic and believe all Catholics are on their way to hell (I’m not talking about Rob Bell here). I have known Churches that have various “ministries” which are specifically designed to draw Catholics away from their faith and they are very sneaky about it. One Church I went to (a “mega-church”) was known for its ministry to “ex-catholics” and I actually saw a play there that was supposedly about the life and passion of Christ. There were many characters, including all the disciples, Mary Magdalen, other people not mentioned, but eluded to in the bible (wives of certain men etc). It showed many scenes from the life of Christ, but someone was strangely absent–Mary. Mary Magdalen was at the foot of the cross, but Mary–Mother of God—was no where to be seen. They had not made a character for the most significant figure in the life of Christ. How can that be? Because they were anti-catholic and they didn’t want any of their “ex-Catholic” audience to remember our Blessed Lady. Take heed, because this is a real thing–many, many “evangelicals” are actively working on ways to get Catholics away from the Church, especially “weak” or young Catholics.

So, yes, Rob Bell may help you see things in a new perspective and have more of an “open mind” which for some people is a very good thing, but there is nothing that compares with the good ol’ Orthodox theology of the Catholic Church.

If you want mysticism and a new way of seeing God, I suggest reading about the lives of the Saints, and reading things that many of them wrote. You can be certain that they will not lead you astray.

peace
Click to expand...
From what I can tell Bell’s has had “controversy” or a degree of mistrust of his ministry for well before this latest flare up as do others in the seeker senstive or emergent movement to some degree or the other. The main thing that jumped out at me was not the content of of his question or suggestion it was the response of fellow Ministers, I got the message that they clearing think he is wrong. But in classic political manuevering their was no actual answers or honesty if not sure of the answer. Thats all I was gettting at.
If I were a Protestant in Michigan I wouldn’t attend his Church, it would be some smaller, humble unknown conservative Mainline Church. Although I have shook my head at the emergent movement what cause me much more concern is the seemingly endless folks on tv selling thier umpteenth book or prayer cloth interspersed between a message basically saying how to become successfull, how to make money. how to how to…
 
waxwing said:
From what I can tell Bell’s has had “controversy” or a degree of mistrust of his ministry for well before this latest flare up as do others in the seeker senstive or emergent movement to some degree or the other. The main thing that jumped out at me was not the content of of his question or suggestion it was the response of fellow Ministers, I got the message that they clearing think he is wrong. But in classic political manuevering their was no actual answers or honesty if not sure of the answer. Thats all I was gettting at.
If I were a Protestant in Michigan I wouldn’t attend his Church, it would be some smaller, humble unknown conservative Mainline Church. Although I have shook my head at the emergent movement what cause me much more concern is the seemingly endless folks on tv selling thier umpteenth book or prayer cloth interspersed between a message basically saying how to become successfull, how to make money. how to how to…
Click to expand...
I’ve read one of his other books, “Velvet Elvis”, and loved it. I found it very insightful. I found his arguments to be based on history and scholarship, not just “I feel this way…”.

I’m looking to getting this one at the library in the next couple of weeks.
waxwing said:
Although I have shook my head at the emergent movement what cause me much more concern is the seemingly endless folks on tv selling thier umpteenth book or prayer cloth interspersed between a message basically saying how to become successfull, how to make money. how to how to…
Click to expand...
I share that concern too, but from what I know about Bell, none of that applies.
 
AnaTurin said:
Honestly, I would recommend to all Catholics to STAY AWAY from all of Rob Bell’s books.

Rob Bell is a very intelligent (and i’m sure, very sincere) man … he is very inspirational, and he is a great speaker and writer. However, I would NOT get my theology from this guy and I would be careful not to be drawn into his ideas because he DOES make them so compelling. If someone gave you a glass of wine and told you it was 99% Chateau Lafite 1787 (a very rare and expensive wine), would you still want to drink it if you found out it was 1% strychnine?

So, yes, Rob Bell may help you see things in a new perspective and have more of an “open mind” which for some people is a very good thing, but there is nothing that compares with the good ol’ Orthodox theology of the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
I don’‘t even know who Rob Bell is, but why should you be warning anyone away from someone who may bring intelligence, sincerity and inspiration to religion? Have we lost our ability to reason? Are we so easily lead astray? The "good ol’ Orthodox theology" should be able to stand the strain, don’t you think?

James
 
Major_Tom said:
I’ve read one of his other books, “Velvet Elvis”, and loved it. I found it very insightful. I found his arguments to be based on history and scholarship, not just “I feel this way…”.

I’m looking to getting this one at the library in the next couple of weeks.

I share that concern too, but from what I know about Bell, none of that applies.
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No never have seen Bell amongst the usual cast of characters on TV so don’t mean to imply him to be among them. My reading is usually quite ‘safe’ people like Lewis, Stott and Packer…only one who I read that may slightly be on the controversial side is Yancey
 
confusedius said:
I don’‘t even know who Rob Bell is, but why should you be warning anyone away from someone who may bring intelligence, sincerity and inspiration to religion? Have we lost our ability to reason? Are we so easily lead astray? The "good ol’ Orthodox theology" should be able to stand the strain, don’t you think?

James
Click to expand...
Are we so easily lead astray?

Apparently so, or else why did Jesus and the Apostles continually warn against false prophets? Why are their so many cults filled with “ex-catholics”?

Sure, people that have a solid understanding of their faith would have no problem distinguishing between Catholic theology and heresy, but how many Catholics really know their faith that well?
 
AnaTurin said:
Are we so easily lead astray?

Apparently so, or else why did Jesus and the Apostles continually warn against false prophets? Why are their so many cults filled with “ex-catholics”?

Sure, people that have a solid understanding of their faith would have no problem distinguishing between Catholic theology and heresy, but how many Catholics really know their faith that well?
Click to expand...
Good points you make. However, those warnings were a very long time ago, and not accompanied by much in the way of helping one to recognize such false prophets.

So are we to shut our eyes to any who lack the proper sanctioning? Is there no place for modern thought or debate? Did the relative few who were able to attend the Council of Nicaea produce nothing needing further study?

Just some questions that trouble my mind…

james
 
Never heard of the man. Not interested in his book. I guess I don’t have anything to add here… 😉

…movin’ on.

Peace,
Robert
 
confusedius said:
Good points you make. However, those warnings were a very long time ago, and not accompanied by much in the way of helping one to recognize such false prophets.

So are we to shut our eyes to any who lack the proper sanctioning? Is there no place for modern thought or debate? Did the relative few who were able to attend the Council of Nicaea produce nothing needing further study?

Just some questions that trouble my mind…

james
Click to expand...
Of course there is room for modern thought and debate. But with this book, there’s not much to debate unless you are an apologist. This is a common theme of non-catholic groups trying to “reinvent the wheel” theologically because they have to keep starting from scratch every time they start a new church or denomination. I have nothing against protestants, but sometimes it is difficult to know where to draw the line between “mainline denominations” that are pretty close to Catholic theology usually, or more eccentric denominations or even cults. Especially for Catholics who don’t know their faith.

Obviously, if you are secure in your faith, you will read just about anything with no problem, but then again, no one is incapable of “falling” (ex. the apostles)

If there were false prophets back then, there must be even more now, since the Bible does predict that they will increase in number. I’m not calling Rob Bell a false prophet per se, but I’m saying it would be foolish to think everyone is immune to them or that they don’t exist in our “modern” times. Besides, the “best” false prophets are also the sneakiest ones, that’s why they are more effective and more deceptive.
 
A Catholic friend of mine is reading his new book “Love Wins”.

I’ve never heard of Rob Bell. I first thought he was a Catholic:D

But I’ve seen a recent interview of Bell and journalist Martin Bashir found here: youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA&feature=player_embedded

After seeing and listening to Bell talk about God and Hell with Bashir, I will not read his new book.

Some of you might be interested in reading this review found here: docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:kEsgu7GTqHcJ:www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/files/2011/03/LoveWinsReview.pdf+lovewinsreview.pdf&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj1A2hKV5kks1qklQs-3WDlw8xjqGfAxWNI9Vj4dPWPE2lGwwBq6IigcL3KnVPc1MoyZELPG-EfxRyJSVVA5REvvZdegBezoYKdx0zOyEDcvzQd6NapjllLckqodOa2A7iW90P8&sig=AHIEtbR1RZdIUlZImb1r761i0hXk7B-DEg which I’ve read. The author, also a pastor, read Bell’s “Love Wins” and by large refutes Bell’s false and harmful “feel good” theology.
 
I have read the books Velvet Elvis and Love Wins. I cannot in good conscience recommend that anyone waste their money on either book.

It is true that most Protestant denominations have pretty much said that Bell is a heretic. I concur. His latest book is really nothing more than yet another attempt to say that everyone goes to heaven. Bell is a universalist, though he denies it. I don’t use the word ‘universal’ in the Catholic sense either. I find Catholics to be sincere in their use of the word ‘universal’ and that they are completely honest about it.

Bell spends a great deal of time planting doubt in the believer’s mind, while then stating his views are orthodox. If you read Velvet Elvis, you can read paragraphs about the so-called Pagan beliefs regarding the Virgin Birth. He seems to imply that Christians just “made it all up”. But then he says “I affirm the Virgin Birth”. It’s double-speak on almost every page.

Bottom line, Bell’s theology is meant to appeal to the masses because there is no true gospel message in his books, just as post-modernism has no answers.

In Galatians, Paul warns us against people who would present a different gospel, and then says “Let them be accursed”.
 
ForeverGrace said:
Bell spends a great deal of time planting doubt in the believer’s mind, while then stating his views are orthodox. If you read Velvet Elvis, you can read paragraphs about the so-called Pagan beliefs regarding the Virgin Birth. He seems to imply that Christians just “made it all up”. But then he says “I affirm the Virgin Birth”. It’s double-speak on almost every page.
Click to expand...
I read Velvet Elvis, and loved it. I don’t agree with your conclusion; I’ve recommended it to a few people.
ForeverGrace said:
I have read the books Velvet Elvis and Love Wins. His latest book is really nothing more than yet another attempt to say that everyone goes to heaven.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but the book hasn’t been released yet, has it? Upon what do you base this conclusion?
 
MajorTom,

You asked to be corrected, yes? The book is out and I have it in my hand so my opinion is based upon my reading of the book. It’s not like reading Calvin’s Institutes. It only took about 2 hours to read it.

Given that you state you are a Unitarian, I’m not surprised that you liked it. At least you have the courage to claim what you believe. Bell isn’t that honest.

Too bad I can’t get my money back.
 
ForeverGrace said:
MajorTom,

You asked to be corrected, yes? The book is out and I have it in my hand so my opinion is based upon my reading of the book. It’s not like reading Calvin’s Institutes. It only took about 2 hours to read it.

Given that you state you are a Unitarian, I’m not surprised that you liked it. At least you have the courage to claim what you believe. Bell isn’t that honest.

Too bad I can’t get my money back.
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Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that he was promoting the book, but it hadn’t hit the bookshelves yet.
 
Bell makes a case for what Catholics already believe in: that we may hope that all may be saved.
 
What’s with the title Velvet Elvis? Sounds like such an odd name for a religious book?

Just curious…
 
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