Rob Bell's New Book and Controversy

[Major_Tom]

What’s with the title Velvet Elvis? Sounds like such an odd name for a religious book?

Just curious…

It’s an anecdote he uses early in the book. He saw one of those cheesy paintings on velvet of Elvis, and thought, “Why in the world would someone paint that? Do they really think that it’s good?”. Then he takes that idea off on a tangent. The painter probably realizes that it isn’t a Picasso, nonetheless, he/she still wanted to paint it. Why? Because they are excited about the topic, and want to express something about it themselves, in their own way, in their own words. Or: you have to make something your own. Like the many ideas that you read about in the Bible.

 

[yellowbird]

It’s an anecdote he uses early in the book. He saw one of those cheesy paintings on velvet of Elvis, and thought, “Why in the world would someone paint that? Do they really think that it’s good?”. Then he takes that idea off on a tangent. The painter probably realizes that it isn’t a Picasso, nonetheless, he/she still wanted to paint it. Why? Because they are excited about the topic, and want to express something about it themselves, in their own way, in their own words. Or: you have to make something your own. Like the many ideas that you read about in the Bible.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[johnbres2]

I have nothing against protestants, but sometimes it is difficult to know where to draw the line between “mainline denominations” that are pretty close to Catholic theology usually, or more eccentric denominations or even cults. Especially for Catholics who don’t know their faith.
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I think he would call himself an “evangelical,” and not a Protestant. ‘Protestant’ does not refer to all non-Catholic christians. I am reading the Bell book right now and find it very enjoyable. It is not a scholarly work, but is written more like a conversation, and I find it very insightful. Catholic eschatology is fairly loosely defined, as we don’t seem to get too into the details of heaven and the “next age.” Many non-Catholics are more interested in that, and honestly I find his book very refreshing. He is giving voice to a lot of questions that many people ask in their hearts, but which they are “not allowed” to ask at their churches.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I think he would call himself an “evangelical,” and not a Protestant. ‘Protestant’ does not refer to all non-Catholic christians. I am reading the Bell book right now and find it very enjoyable. It is not a scholarly work, but is written more like a conversation, and I find it very insightful. Catholic eschatology is fairly loosely defined, as we don’t seem to get too into the details of heaven and the “next age.” Many non-Catholics are more interested in that, and honestly I find his book very refreshing. He is giving voice to a lot of questions that many people ask in their hearts, but which they are “not allowed” to ask at their churches.

Does he deny Hell? Somebody upthread said he did not. If so, how can he then reconcile the fact that Hell exiasts but everybody apparently goes to heaven in the end?

 

[Bluegoat]

Does he deny Hell? Somebody upthread said he did not. If so, how can he then reconcile the fact that Hell exiasts but everybody apparently goes to heaven in the end?

Traditional Christianity generally has allowed for the possibility that everyone may go to Heaven, and that we may hope that is the case. Some of the Fathers wrote on this, though I can’t remember which ones.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi

Some of you, especially if you follow Protestant news, may may know their is ongoing ‘scandel’ based on Pastor Rob Bell’s new book. I haven’t read the book and don’t plan to, but have read and watched at little about this latest brouhaha. Essentially he seems to questioning the doctrine of hell - what I have found curious is the overwelming pushback from fellow pastors/theolgians. Now from what I have read I don’t agree with Bell, but the questions are legitmate although somewhat coated with that fuzzy post modernism that sometimes make be scratch my head. I have read of the condemning responses but not any answers from his fellow Protestant Collegues. I don’t have a answer either but am not afraid of saying so or simply saying I will leave that in the All Wise, All Knowing, All Loving Hands of the Father.

How many protestant erros do you think you can fix?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Are we so easily lead astray?

Apparently so, or else why did Jesus and the Apostles continually warn against false prophets? Why are their so many cults filled with “ex-catholics”?

Sure, people that have a solid understanding of their faith would have no problem distinguishing between Catholic theology and heresy, but how many Catholics really know their faith that well?

I dont know why any Catholic is interested in anything that is not Catholic and coming from those in error. if you have enough money to spend give to the Church. so we can have beautiful churches built. why would anyone give money to those who are in err is beyond me.

 

[waxwing]

How many protestant erros do you think you can fix?

There is a big difference in pointing out errors and fixing them.

I dont know why any Catholic is interested in anything that is not Catholic and coming from those in error. if you have enough money to spend give to the Church. so we can have beautiful churches built. why would anyone give money to those who are in err is beyond me.

Actually I find the Non Catholic Forums more interesting than the Catholic ones for the very reasons I find weakness in Protestantism - their susceptibility to pride and relativism. (Pride of another sort is also found in the RCC) But I also find it more flexible and and conducive to discussion. In the solely Catholic Forums I am always expecting the “Rome has spoken the matter is closed” type of response, what can you say to that, Oh Ok lets move on to the next discussion until its used again. I know I am simplifying and exaggerating to an extend but thats impression I am left with.

 

[Contarini]

Hi

Some of you, especially if you follow Protestant news, may may know their is ongoing ‘scandel’ based on Pastor Rob Bell’s new book. I haven’t read the book and don’t plan to, but have read and watched at little about this latest brouhaha. Essentially he seems to questioning the doctrine of hell - what I have found curious is the overwelming pushback from fellow pastors/theolgians. Now from what I have read I don’t agree with Bell, but the questions are legitmate although somewhat coated with that fuzzy post modernism that sometimes make be scratch my head. I have read of the condemning responses but not any answers from his fellow Protestant Collegues. I don’t have a answer either but am not afraid of saying so or simply saying I will leave that in the All Wise, All Knowing, All Loving Hands of the Father.

You can read my take on Bell here (this is actually the second of three posts dealing with Bell).

Edwin

 

[LOCO]

Good points you make. However, those warnings were a very long time ago, and not accompanied by much in the way of helping one to recognize such false prophets.

So are we to shut our eyes to any who lack the proper sanctioning? Is there no place for modern thought or debate? Did the relative few who were able to attend the Council of Nicaea produce nothing needing further study?

Just some questions that trouble my mind…

james

Hi James

So are we to shut our eyes to any who lack the proper sanctioning? Well to some extent, there is nothing that stops Catholics from reading other works. But ‘doctrines’ are another thing.

That is why Jesus left us the Church, the Universal Church to teach, advise and correct us. It also up to the more knowledgeable Catholics to assist the Church in this.

The Church already has a ‘doctrine’ on Hell, precisely because it is doctrine 'it cannot change’ and it also means it is a ‘requirement of the faith’ to follow it, this is not optional. It has been defined by the Magisterium which was guided by the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how doctrines operate in your ecclesial community. Are your doctrines fluid?

Of course there is a place for modern thought and/or debate. However the Church’s primary role is also to protect the faithful from ‘false doctrines’, that may be damaging to faith or morals.

That is why I encourage Catholics and enquirers of the faith to only read books on Catholicism that have an impramatur on the sleeve. This has been instituted by the CC.

According to canon law, this permission must be preceded by a declaration (known as a nihil obstat) by a person charged with the duties of a censor that the work contains nothing damaging to faith or morals, the bishop’s authorization of publication is implicitly a public declaration that nothing offensive to Catholic teaching on faith and morals has been found in it. The imprimatur is not an endorsement by the bishop of the contents of a book, not even of the religious opinions expressed in it, being merely a declaration about what is not in the book.

 

[valentino]

the subject of Hell has been debated by Catholics for centuries .I believe the Church still has the closest view on what Hell probably is.

 

[Izdaari]

Protestant Rob Bell fan here, though I don’t always agree with everything he says. I do think he’s always worth reading, and is thought provoking in a good way. I particularly recommend his NOOMA series of videos, usually 10-15 minutes long, and they’re very good teaching on just one very focused topic. I’m not saying you’ll necessarily agree with all of them; I don’t.

Someone asked why Catholics would pay attention to Rob Bell? Well, if you’re one of those who thinks only Catholics are real Christians, and nobody else knows anything, you probably should ignore him. Other Catholics, not quite so proud and so insular, might find a lot they can agree with in Bell’s work.

 

[Varicose_Brains]

Are we so easily lead astray?

Apparently so, or else why did Jesus and the Apostles continually warn against false prophets?

What makes you think you haven’t already been led astray then?