Robbin Hood Taxes

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TenBobNote

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If a tax is not equally distributed how can it be considered just?

If taxes that occur today like social security, income tax, etc are not equally distributed how can they be moral? If a group of people take the fruits of my labor and distribute them unequally to whoever they think deserves it, they are essentially doing the same thing as me going to my neighbors safe and giving 1/6th of his money to the poor. Taking ones money against their will is immoral, and handing it out to the needy appears to be good, yet how can a moral act come from an immoral one? More so the evidence is clear that government entity’s are almost never efficient with the people’s money, so how can it be moral to waste tax payer’s money on inefficient government programs when institutions such as the Catholic Church can replicate whatever good the government attempts to do, yet make it efficient and with the love of Jesus Christ?
 
Uh, no. false analogy.
The government applying a tax is not like you going to your neighbour’s house and taking money from his safe.
The government is given legal authority to levy taxes. You have no authority to take your neighbour’s money.
 
Ok, I may have been able to find a better analogy, but that is not the main point. The main point is, How can the inefficiencies and wealth distribution be moral?
 
I’m not sure what you mean about wealth distribution.
Do you mean because some people are given more than others?
If so, why is it wrong to give poor people money to help them, without giving the same amount to those who don’t need it?

As for the inefficiency, all government action suffers from that problem. That’s not a reason to take no action.
Certainly a Catholic charity is likely to be more efficient. In which case, give to the Catholic charity. Don’t try to stop the government from helping where it can.

Also, the government is likely to have information and resources the Church does not, and so be able to do things the Church can not.
 
In my opinion, the only way to fix the problem is to motivate uninterested, uninformed voters into getting the current run of politicians out and replacing them with people who will truly try to make a difference. That and prayer, of course.
 
When you tax something, you get less of it.

So, if you tax people who create jobs, then you will end up with fewer jobs.
 
glenconnor said:
In my opinion, the only way to fix the problem is to motivate uninterested, uninformed voters into getting the current run of politicians out and replacing them with people who will truly try to make a difference. That and prayer, of course.
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No, the only way to fix the problem is to motivate people to become Catholic.

In a truly Catholic society, most everyone is oriented in the same direction, most everyone is working to help himself and his neighbor to Heaven, people are having lots of children, and there are many vocations (if only because there are many people). With all the people who are consecrating themselves to the religious life and dedicating themselves to helping the needy, as well as so many relatives to help the needy, and so many who understand the nature of charity, and when everyone, including government officials, understands the purpose of government and the boundaries of government, the world will be a better place.
 
TenBobNote said:
If a tax is not equally distributed how can it be considered just?

If taxes that occur today like social security, income tax, etc are not equally distributed how can they be moral? If a group of people take the fruits of my labor and distribute them unequally to whoever they think deserves it, they are essentially doing the same thing as me going to my neighbors safe and giving 1/6th of his money to the poor. Taking ones money against their will is immoral, and handing it out to the needy appears to be good, yet how can a moral act come from an immoral one? More so the evidence is clear that government entity’s are almost never efficient with the people’s money, so how can it be moral to waste tax payer’s money on inefficient government programs when institutions such as the Catholic Church can replicate whatever good the government attempts to do, yet make it efficient and with the love of Jesus Christ?
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I’m not sure what the question is here. Are you asking if taxes are wrong in general? Or that they’re wrong because that the use of the money is not always done in the most efficient manner? Or is it that the benefits of tax system are not equally applied, for example it is not fair that large companies get tax breaks that the rest of us don’t, and that the poor get assistance that most of us don’t? Or are you asking if it would be better to not pay any taxes and just give that money to the Church and let it distribute it?
 
fultonfish said:
When you tax something, you get less of it.

So, if you tax people who create jobs, then you will end up with fewer jobs.
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Or they could get tax breaks and send jobs over seas, and pay less domestically anyway. Like what has been happening for awhile now.
 
St_Francis said:
No, the only way to fix the problem is to motivate people to become Catholic.

In a truly Catholic society, most everyone is oriented in the same direction, most everyone is working to help himself and his neighbor to Heaven, people are having lots of children, and there are many vocations (if only because there are many people). With all the people who are consecrating themselves to the religious life and dedicating themselves to helping the needy, as well as so many relatives to help the needy, and so many who understand the nature of charity, and when everyone, including government officials, understands the purpose of government and the boundaries of government, the world will be a better place.
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No doubt an entire society of practicing Catholics would change things drastically. It would be a completely different world.
 
Reepicheep said:
Uh, no. false analogy.
The government applying a tax is not like you going to your neighbour’s house and taking money from his safe.
The government is given legal authority to levy taxes. You have no authority to take your neighbour’s money.
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WRONG! The government has no legal authority except the “legal authority?” it gives itself to do whatever it wants to do, moral or immoral (remember slavery, women unable to vote, ABORTION…!!!).

All truly legal rights come from directly from God and therefore can only be just & moral.

Sancta maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
I would reccomend reading the catechism on this, specifically “The seventh commandment” It says governments have the legitimate authority to tax.

That said, taxes can sometimes be bad for the economy
 
St_Francis said:
No, the only way to fix the problem is to motivate people to become Catholic.

In a truly Catholic society, most everyone is oriented in the same direction, most everyone is working to help himself and his neighbor to Heaven, people are having lots of children, and there are many vocations (if only because there are many people). With all the people who are consecrating themselves to the religious life and dedicating themselves to helping the needy, as well as so many relatives to help the needy, and so many who understand the nature of charity, and when everyone, including government officials, understands the purpose of government and the boundaries of government, the world will be a better place.
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On the lots of children part I’d have to disagree to a limited extent. My father’s family had a lot of children and it lead to fighting and dysfunction that would put a Jerry Springer show to shame. I’m the oldest of 8 and Iv’e got many who agree with me my parents got to what they could handle about 1/2 way to that. My parent’s hardly parented the last two at all, and us older children will likely have to deal with those bad results for a long time to come. The youngest does’t have a clue to anything in life. We Catholics have to learn to stop pushing things to the limit.
 
aspawloski4th said:
On the lots of children part I’d have to disagree to a limited extent. My father’s family had a lot of children and it lead to fighting and dysfunction that would put a Jerry Springer show to shame. I’m the oldest of 8 and Iv’e got many who agree with me my parents got to what they could handle about 1/2 way to that. My parent’s hardly parented the last two at all, and us older children will likely have to deal with those bad results for a long time to come. The youngest does’t have a clue to anything in life. We Catholics have to learn to stop pushing things to the limit.
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Well, the thing is that the problem was not the number of children but how your parents handled the situation. I have seen dysfunction in families with only one or two children, and good functioning in families with many more.

(I also believe that the structure and consequent stresses of modern life sabotages large families.)
 
fultonfish said:
With lower taxes, we get 5% unemployment.
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Of course during the period of highest tax rates on the upper class, we had the lowest unemployment rates. In addition Bush gave at least two major tax breaks to the upper class and we lost jobs. Lower taxes on the wealthy has never increased jobs for the working class. To even assume such is strange to say the least. Its like saying that because I saved money on a happy meal I must go buy a comic book with the money saved. It just means the wealthy have more money. Which isn’t a bad thing, but one man having more money doesn’t necessitate the he’s going share that money.
 
rtconstant said:
Of course during the period of highest tax rates on the upper class, we had the lowest unemployment rates. In addition Bush gave at least two major tax breaks to the upper class and we lost jobs. Lower taxes on the wealthy has never increased jobs for the working class. To even assume such is strange to say the least. Its like saying that because I saved money on a happy meal I must go buy a comic book with the money saved. It just means the wealthy have more money. Which isn’t a bad thing, but one man having more money doesn’t necessitate the he’s going share that money.
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Unemployment was very low during the Bush administration.

The highest tax rates were during World War II and Korea. Is that what you have in mind to create jobs: draft everyone into the Army?

If you want to create jobs, who will provide jobs: the rich who invest in companies that employ people? Or the poor, who just barely get by?
 
fultonfish said:
Unemployment was very low during the Bush administration.
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Unemployment started low began to rise, I believe we lost about 300,000 jobs.
The highest tax rates were during World War II and Korea. Is that what you have in mind to create jobs: draft everyone into the Army?
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The 1950’s were solidly prosperous for the US and ironically is considered by many political “conservatives” as the golden years.
If you want to create jobs, who will provide jobs: the rich who invest in companies that employ people? Or the poor, who just barely get by?
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Not sure what that has to do with the subject, but back to the topic at hand. When the wealthiest Americans were being taxed between 90 - 93% they had no problem creating jobs, and they have no problem doing it now after massive tax cuts. Yet unemployment has only grown (admittedly it hasn’t grown a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but sure hasn’t gone down). Once more, just because you have more money in your pocket doesn’t mean you’re going to spend it. It certainly doesn’t mean that you’re going to go create another job. Trickle down looks good on paper but in practice really hasn’t played out.
 
OK, so job creation has nothing to do with the original topic, I would appreciate comments on the morality of current day taxes, specifically how they distribute wealth ( the politicians decide where your money is best spent) and the inefficiencies of how they spend our money. (money going to special interests and spent unwisely)
 
TenBobNote said:
OK, so job creation has nothing to do with the original topic, I would appreciate comments on the morality of current day taxes, specifically how they distribute wealth ( the politicians decide where your money is best spent) and the inefficiencies of how they spend our money. (money going to special interests and spent unwisely)
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Fair enough, I apologize in my part on the derailment.

While it is true that many government programs are ran inefficiently, that is also true of private groups as well. The difference is that political organizations have a built in accountability, while private groups don’t necessarily. Political organizations within a Democratic Republic (such as the US) can become more efficient simply by citizens becoming informed and involved in the process.
 
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