Robert Spencer?

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Apparently this is where Robert Spencer obtains at least some of his information.

raymondibrahim.com/islam/islams-doctrines-of-deception/

Exposing a doctrine

"All of the above is an exposition on doctrine and its various manifestations, not an assertion on the actual practices of the average Muslim. The deciding question is how literally any given Muslim follows sharia and its worldview.

So-called “moderate” Muslims – or, more specifically, secularised Muslims – do not closely adhere to sharia, and therefore have little to dissemble about. On the other hand, “radical” Muslims who closely observe sharia law, which splits the world into two perpetually warring halves, will always have a “divinely sanctioned” right to deceive, until “all chaos ceases, and all religion belongs to Allah” (Quran 8:39)."
 
Oh really? Then I’ll help you. Google his name and read about what these muslim scholars have to say. If you can’t find the links let me know. In fact here…

politico.com/blogs/media/2013/04/al-jazeera-announces-investigative-unit-161669.html

raymondibrahim.com/islam/al-azhar-scholar-christian-copts-will-pay-jizya/
I see, we can ignore the obvious bias of the site you linked in your first post because you provide us with a link to a completely different site for an author who works for a completely different secular political organization pushing a secular political agenda based on its founder’s political views.
 
I see, we can ignore the obvious bias of the site you linked in your first post because you provide us with a link to a completely different site for an author who works for a completely different secular political organization pushing a secular political agenda based on its founder’s political views.
What obvious bias, muslims against muslims? :rotfl: First they were not intelligent enough for you. Then they were Christain’s with an agenda. I doubt anything but radical Islam itself in person will convince you. 🤷
 
I see, we can ignore the obvious bias of the site you linked in your first post because you provide us with a link to a completely different site for an author who works for a completely different secular political organization pushing a secular political agenda based on its founder’s political views.
You seem hung up on the “political” aspects of this conversation, but I think they are unavoidable given the political nature of Islam. Islamic states are a prominent feature if the religion. To debate the religious content of Islam also requires us to look at the political aspects as well. It seems obvious that those opposed to philosophical points if Islam will also coincide with its political opponents.
 
What obvious bias, muslims against muslims? :rotfl: First they were not intelligent enough for you. Then they were Christain’s with an agenda. I doubt anything but radical Islam itself in person will convince you. 🤷
You might want to actually do some research prior to posting or making claims against my comments.
  1. No where have I made any indication or mention of the religious faith of any of the individuals or organizations I have mentioned or you have cited.
  2. (given the importance of it, it really should be 1)- That site you linked in the first post I responded to; yeah it’s run by an organization founded and funded by a Rabbi. Kinda hard for me to claim that they are “Christian’s with an agenda” when the guy, and his family, who founded it and fund it aren’t even Christians.
Additionally, no radical Islamists won’t change my views concerning the complete lack of any real value in Mr. Spencer’s works or the complete lack of any real value in the sites you linked. I know this, because I’ve actually spent time in a Muslim country and have had to do numerous tactical questionings (for those who don’t know this term- think police interviews as portrayed on shows like Law and Order) of insurgents. Now granted most of the insurgents I had to question weren’t religious fanatics (most were common criminals or had to be insurgents or see their families killed), but enough of them were that I can safely say that their radical religious views won’t force me to abandon my use logic, reason, and critical thinking when determining the scholarly value of someone’s or some organizations work. Thanks, but the “well I agree with their conclusions so I don’t care how they arrived at them or even if their conclusions are accurate” approach just doesn’t work for me.
 
Muslims who criticise Robert Spencer do it on raw emotion (most of the time) without having seen or articulated why he is wrong.
 
Well, it seems like the exact same situation we have been confronted with year after year. And the same misinformation program.

The muslim Dr. Mahmoud Shu‘ban in two links above seems to have been caught by emotion in speaking, probably where he didn’t intend to. That’s how I read it between the two links. There can be no doubt he clearly understands the Islamic situation in Egypt. Impossible he would be employed in the University their otherwise.

Raymond Ibrahim is another well regarded scholar, in particular his area of study was jihad 700-AD.

Robert Spencer seems to be connected their through a separate sight of Jihad Watch in the middle east, the above links which mimic the same thinking and wording, “moderate” stands out which I cut and pasted. Too much coincidence for me. Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but its very similar.
 
You seem hung up on the “political” aspects of this conversation, but I think they are unavoidable given the political nature of Islam. Islamic states are a prominent feature if the religion. To debate the religious content of Islam also requires us to look at the political aspects as well. It seems obvious that those opposed to philosophical points if Islam will also coincide with its political opponents.
The “political aspects of this conversation” I’m “hung up on” have nothing to do with the linkage between Islam; religious aspects and Islam, political aspects. I fully understand that one can not really separate the two like one can with the Christian faith. My issue is with the politics and political motivations of the sources being cited.

Look at it this way, if I cited a bunch of articles from sites founded by, funded by, and ran by politically liberal individuals as proof that the Church hates homosexuals would you view these articles and sites as scholarly and/or unbiased? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because their aim is to push a political agenda, with their works designed to support this agenda (selective reporting, biased research, non-scholarly methodology, etc).

What if I did the same in regards to Mr. Dawkins and the organizations he is associated with/funds as proof that religion (as a whole) is evil? Would you view his works as unbiased and scholarly? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because, like above, he has a political/social agenda and, like Mr. Spencer, he isn’t anywhere near what one should consider a subject matter expert or “learned individual” on the subject he is writing on.

Now look at the sites that have been cited to me. Are these sites owned by organizations that have a clearly identifiable political agenda? Yes. Were these organizations founded by and funded by individuals whose main goal was to push their political views/agenda? Yes. Are these sites and the articles on them scholarly works? No. Are they news stories (as in “just the facts ma’am” news stories)? No. Are they politically biased news stories (as in really opinion pieces or “tow the party line” articles) that had they been about the “evils” of the Church would be decried by most of the posters on here as yet more proof that the “main stream media” is a political tool of liberals? Yes.
 
GaryTaylor:
That’s your personal honest examination in the public realm. Thus I contend as with the Syria link above I too have this right and so too does Spencer.
We all have this right. So what?

robwar:
Someone who points out the real picture not the pc lets all be nice should be lauded and in fact Robert Spencer is not in the least hateful or mean about any Muslim.
Robert Spencer is hateful and mean about EVERY Muslim. Because in essence of all his theory( what he writes is theory and not reality) is: Muslims are violent because they are Muslims.
Again Robert Spencer is correct and this is a problem that ever ended in the middle east. The Arab slave trade was bigger than whatever European ever did which equally is evil. Popes through the centuries always condemned slavery and while Europe in the middle ages had serfs and more of an indentured servants, slavery as in Rome and Greece is not found.
Only in Italy there are around 1 milion sex slaves.
In the last 500years Europe enslaved practically the whole World - almost. So you can’t get bigger then that, can’t you? Just picture big famines under the British rule in India.
I think it is hard to imagine christian countries as perpetrators instead of victims, because of ideological framework that was build throught centuries, that forces us to perceive ourselves as superior to others (morally…). Let’s take islamic radicalization today. In Iraq for example christians must flee from the country after 2000years. Why? what happened there? Sure , if you have such a theory as Spancer that Islam is the cause of all evil in the world then I can’t argue with you, but is this reality?
 
You might want to actually do some research prior to posting or making claims against my comments.
  1. No where have I made any indication or mention of the religious faith of any of the individuals or organizations I have mentioned or you have cited.
  2. (given the importance of it, it really should be 1)- That site you linked in the first post I responded to; yeah it’s run by an organization founded and funded by a Rabbi. Kinda hard for me to claim that they are “Christian’s with an agenda” when the guy, and his family, who founded it and fund it aren’t even Christians.
Additionally, no radical Islamists won’t change my views concerning the complete lack of any real value in Mr. Spencer’s works or the complete lack of any real value in the sites you linked. I know this, because I’ve actually spent time in a Muslim country and have had to do numerous tactical questionings (for those who don’t know this term- think police interviews as portrayed on shows like Law and Order) of insurgents. Now granted most of the insurgents I had to question weren’t religious fanatics (most were common criminals or had to be insurgents or see their families killed), but enough of them were that I can safely say that their radical religious views won’t force me to abandon my use logic, reason, and critical thinking when determining the scholarly value of someone’s or some organizations work. Thanks, but the “well I agree with their conclusions so I don’t care how they arrived at them or even if their conclusions are accurate” approach just doesn’t work for me.
Research such as the none you did? Oh wait you contributed a serious lacking analogy.

This is your opinion, and you contributed nothing here but that opinion. And yes you did say exactly Robert Spencer wasn’t educated enough for you. 🤷 Right?

No-one suggested you adandon your logic, very much on the contrary.
 
Research such as the none you did? Oh wait you contributed a serious lacking analogy.

This is your opinion, and you contributed nothing here but that opinion. And yes you did say exactly Robert Spencer wasn’t educated enough for you. 🤷 Right?

No-one suggested you adandon your logic, very much on the contrary.
Yes, Mr. Spencer lacks enough education in regards to Islam to be considered a valid source. I hold the same view in regards to Mr. Dawkins. Given the similarities between the two authors in regards to their motivations and education I assume most people on here would logically hold the views I do. It would be illogical and against reason to view one as valid despite his lack of qualifications and one as invalid because of his lack of qualifications when both pretty much have the same qualifications in regards to the subjects the write on.

Additionally, notice how I didn’t respond to your education comment; but instead responded to your comment concerning “Christians with an agenda” and how I never mentioned anyone’s faith in any of my comments and how your accusation against me doesn’t even work for the first site I objected to given that the founder and major funder of it is a Jewish Rabbi.

As for research on my part, I’ve at least bothered to figure out that the sites you keep linking as proof that your conclusions concerning Mr. Spencer and Islam are not sites one should consider scholarly or unbiased given their and their founders/funders’ political agenda and motivations.
 
Yes, Mr. Spencer lacks enough education in regards to Islam to be considered a valid source. I hold the same view in regards to Mr. Dawkins. Given the similarities between the two authors in regards to their motivations and education I assume most people on here would logically hold the views I do. It would be illogical and against reason to view one as valid despite his lack of qualifications and one as invalid because of his lack of qualifications when both pretty much have the same qualifications in regards to the subjects the write on.

Additionally, notice how I didn’t respond to your education comment; but instead responded to your comment concerning “Christians with an agenda” and how I never mentioned anyone’s faith in any of my comments and how your accusation against me doesn’t even work for the first site I objected to given that the founder and major funder of it is a Jewish Rabbi.

As for research on my part, I’ve at least bothered to figure out that the sites you keep linking as proof that your conclusions concerning Mr. Spencer and Islam are not sites one should consider scholarly or unbiased given their and their founders/funders’ political agenda and motivations.
Right, point taken, I’m not here to promote Robert Spencer, in fact I pay little attention to him, in Christian charity I see need to trash the man though. I fail to see where he is wrong nevertheless here. As for the Islamic sources, I disagree. so we’ll agree to disagree there. I’m convinced he acted off his feelings and thus the truth came out. Nothing was intentional with his rant. That’s my opinion, so we both have one.

Lost interest, watching the bombing in Boston.
 
GaryTaylor:
“sigh” The Point is you presented a Double Standard which now you may or may not understand you admit.
The Point is that you are talking nonsese.
What kind of double standard?
You twist words that’s all.
 
GaryTaylor:
The Point is that you are talking nonsese.
What kind of double standard?
You twist words that’s all.
You charity precedes you. Same issue I have with you and your comments on Spencer. You just don’t get it. Have a nice day.
 
The “political aspects of this conversation” I’m “hung up on” have nothing to do with the linkage between Islam; religious aspects and Islam, political aspects. I fully understand that one can not really separate the two like one can with the Christian faith. My issue is with the politics and political motivations of the sources being cited.

Look at it this way, if I cited a bunch of articles from sites founded by, funded by, and ran by politically liberal individuals as proof that the Church hates homosexuals would you view these articles and sites as scholarly and/or unbiased? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because their aim is to push a political agenda, with their works designed to support this agenda (selective reporting, biased research, non-scholarly methodology, etc).

What if I did the same in regards to Mr. Dawkins and the organizations he is associated with/funds as proof that religion (as a whole) is evil? Would you view his works as unbiased and scholarly? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because, like above, he has a political/social agenda and, like Mr. Spencer, he isn’t anywhere near what one should consider a subject matter expert or “learned individual” on the subject he is writing on.

Now look at the sites that have been cited to me. Are these sites owned by organizations that have a clearly identifiable political agenda? Yes. Were these organizations founded by and funded by individuals whose main goal was to push their political views/agenda? Yes. Are these sites and the articles on them scholarly works? No. Are they news stories (as in “just the facts ma’am” news stories)? No. Are they politically biased news stories (as in really opinion pieces or “tow the party line” articles) that had they been about the “evils” of the Church would be decried by most of the posters on here as yet more proof that the “main stream media” is a political tool of liberals? Yes.
Public discourse takes many forms and us not limited to articles published in “peer-reviewed” journals. Your argument would be better served by less bluster, and more facts. Where does Spencer get it demonstrably wrong?
 
  1. While this may be true, this is no different than what most military strategists would do in such circumstances. Also, as a group becomes stronger, they would become more assertive and impose their influence over other groups. And when they were still weak and small in number, they usually are meeker but show their true color when they become stronger.
  2. Muslims would tell us that about 80% of Jihad is an internal struggle to overcome personal weaknesses. Only the remainder is for war purpose and that is only when Islam is threatened and under attack.
  3. If Jihad is meant to spread Islam among the infidels then this is Christians’ mission too, to baptize them and bring them to know God except that it is Christianity.
  4. What Spencer is advocating is the abuse of Jihad by Muslim idealists, politicians and freedom fighters as the definition for Jihad. Well, it is not. What Christians should be wary of is to deal with the Muslim extremists that may threaten our own freedom and that probably are Spencer’s main agenda. But of course we hear a few statements by non-Muslim posters here that there are no Muslim moderates, only Muslims and true Muslims are extremists.
  5. That’s right. They believe that prophets do not sin but only make mistakes. Mohammad is an example that all Muslims strive to follow. Like I said, it is a given that when a group is in the majority, they would exert their influence over other groups and this should not come as a surprise. Muslims are a good example in this attribute since Mohammad showed them by his own action. Of course that goes without saying that Mohammad is not a true prophet.
  6. Christians should take heed of this but the best defense is when Christians are strong in their own faith. Worldly victory is never a Christian’s priority. So what if we can save our bodies but cannot save our souls? Why would the number of Muslims increased and Christians have become indifferent to their faith?
Numbers added to address points clearly.
  1. We are agreed that this is how military commanders behave when considering both their strategic and tactical situation. Unfortunately Muhammed enjoys a status in Islam well beyond that of any christian sainted general within christianity. Islam has the fundamental problem that its FOUNDER used deception to defeat his enemies in long term strategy. This makes it awfully hard for would-be reformers to claim that Allah despises deceit and treachery, no?
  2. This is often asserted by Western muslims. But again, Muhammed’s life did NOT look like this. The 80/20 proportions are reversed, I’d say. Awkward…
  3. Really? You equate the Great Commission in which Jesus sent his followers like lambs unto the wolves (though empowered by the Holy Spirit) to tell the world that our Savior is come to Muhammed’s example and command to conquer and dominate? One can hardly argue that Muhammed’s words were figurative given the actual history of what happened thereafter. In contrast to Muhammed, Jesus revealed his words about physical conflict to be spiritual, not physical when he rebuked his apostle who cut off the ear of one who had come to arrest Jesus with a sword.
  4. Again, don’t you find it awkward that Muhammed himself engaged in behavior that can only be described as “Islamic Extremism.” Spencer asks the fair question: “Are non-violent muslims of good character and honor that way BECAUSE of their muslim faith or in SPITE of it?” It’s a fair question, given the example of Muhammed.
  5. How can you write this and be fully critical of Spencer. Granted, he’s got a bit ofa rabble rousing style, but this is his major intellectual point! Islam is ALL about Muhammed. If Muhammed lived a life that set an evil example, how can one pretend that Islam can be a force for good in global society and culture?
  6. I don’t think Spencer is much concerned about “worldly victory.” I think he’s concerned that while the West obstinately pretends that all religions are equally benign at heart, christians are being systematically slaughtered and oppressed in the Islamic world at the same time muslims are immigrating to the West at unprecedented rates. I share your belief that victory belongs to the Holy Spirit and the conversion of hearts, but that’s cold comfort to those believers in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, etc. right now that are having their churches bombed, their priests murdered, whole villages leveled, etc. We in the West have to face up to the fact that it is NOT mere coincidence that this is happening in Islamic countries. Islam certainly has no monopoly on sin or atrocity, but it is a question worth asking if its teachings are inherently more disposed in that direction than other worldviews.
 
The Know Nothings of the 19th century simply made up their assertions about diabolical catholic plots to dominate the world even though such things are in explicit conflict with the actual teachings of catholicism.
While I agree that these ideas are in conflict with actual Church teaching and that the Church does not permit deliberate deception, the accusations were not simply made up out of whole cloth but were at least loosely based on theologians’ moral speculations and debates over the use of equivocations and amphibologies in mental reservation (a very practical concern in England prior to Newman’s time). Hence the reference by Blessed John Henry Newman’s accuser to St. Alphonsus Liguori, a defender of mental reservation (the wide rather than the strict variety).

Strict mental reservation was, as I understand it, actually condemned by Innocent XI, but some Catholics still debate about what’s acceptable mental reservation. (Unfortunately, some Catholics even debate whether outright lying is ever justified-- cf. Mark Shea v. Peter Kreeft. :()
Spencer, on the other hand, points out the example of Muhammed himself in using deception to placate the enemies of Islam and buy time for the faithful to become strong enough to wage jihad on the infidels.
As I’ve heard the Ishaq story related, it’s Nuaym ibn Masud who asks Muhammad’s permission to lie, suggesting it’s not normally allowed. Muhammad encourages him to sow dissension among the confederates who are laying seige to the city and adds “war is deceit.” Nuaym ibn Masud is the one who creates the deception.

The Ibn Ishaq story is somewhat problematic as a religious source, because Muslim scholars of hadith (sayings & acts of Muhammad) and fiqh (morality, conduct, jurisprudence) question its reliability especially for fiqh. In light of that, I don’t know whether and to what extent Muslims would actually look to that story for personal guidance. The “war is deceit” comment is stated in reliable ahadith, but without Ishaq’s contextualizing story.

But I think there are probably more useful sources anyway.

In Sahih Muslim, considered by Muslims to be the second most authentic hadith collection, one finds tension between absolute honesty and some form of dissembling:
Sahih Muslim:
Chapter : The evil of a lie and the goodness of truth and its merit.

'Abdullah reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavours to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah; and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps telling lies and endeavours to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah.
On the other hand, there is this:
Sahih Muslim:
Chapter : Forbiddance of telling a lie and the cases in which telling of lie is permissible.

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons, and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).
According to the Muslim commentaries I’ve looked at, this is understood to allow dissimilitude in only three circumstances: in the midst of war, to reconcile people, and specifically to reconcile husbands and wives.

Elsewhere, it is suggested that some such acts should not be considered “lying.” In the most reliable hadith collection, Sahih Bukhari, it is said, for example: “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar,” (3.49.857). In commentary, this is often applied to the spousal scenario, for example, if a wife asks “Does this dress make me look fat?” and her husband replies “You look radiant.” Here, the husband says something good to avoid saying either yes or no and to maintain peace. And, having answered neither yes nor no, it’s easy to see why he would not necessarily be called a liar.

(cont’d)
 
You have to admit that’s a rather glaring difference, no?
Perhaps not quite so much as appears at first glance. When we move away from the ahadith into actual practice, it seems that the two most common forms of dissimulation among Muslims are taqiyya (caution; among Shi’a) and idtirar (forced; among Sunni).

Shi’a have, compared to Sunni Muslims, often been a minority group. In order to preserve life, health, property, and relative peace, Shi’a moralists allowed taqiyya, concealment of one’s affiliation with Shi’a. While some of the examples I’ve seen venture out into the territory of strict mental reservation, many appear to fall under wide mental reservation. In the case of the latter, Catholic teaching would not necessarily forbid this to Catholics; Blessed Miguel Pro might say, when asked whether he is a priest, “I am a farmer.” It’s strict mental reservation that would be wrong.

The Sunni concept of idtirar appears similar to taqiyya, at least to an outsider such as myself: when one’s life is in jeopardy, one may conceal one’s faith. Still, it’s insisted that Sunnis do not accept taqiyya, so the distinction is something that would bear more study on my part.

That we can be far from Muslims on these issues does not mean we always are. Both religions permit wide mental reservation in some circumstances. Ours does not permit strict mental reservation, but it does not seem that all Muslims do, either.
While this may be true, this is no different than what most military strategists would do in such circumstances.
This, for example. I wonder how many Catholics consider this morally permissible?
 
No they are not bound at all, Deception in reaching out to others is allowed.
Would you please verify this with a passage from the Qur’an, reliable hadith, or something similar?
This is off topic but Aspirant stated that modern slavery doesn’t exist in Saudi Arabia since it was banned in 1962 and that Robert Spencer has it wrong.
That’s not what I said. Here’s what I actually said:
Slavery was officially abolished in Saudi Arabia in 1962. I do not doubt that the practice continues in Saudi Arabia despite the law. Abolition has, unfortunately, not put an end to slavery. It continues around the world, including right here in the United States and across Europe, as I mentioned. Claiming that this happens “only in Muslim lands,” as Robert Spencer has done, does a profound disservice to people enslaved in many other nations, including our own…

It was abolished in 1962. I’m sure it does continue despite abolition, just as it continues here despite abolition. It is profoundly unjust, especially unjust to people enslaved in non-Muslim nations, for Robert Spencer to claim that it only happens in Muslim lands.
Again Robert Spencer is correct
What is says is quite wrong.
Popes through the centuries always condemned slavery and while Europe in the middle ages had serfs and more of an indentured servants, slavery as in Rome and Greece is not found.
Not found?!?! Europe has a huge problem with slavery right now-- hundreds of thousands of people are trafficked through Europe annually. Although every nation in the world now has laws prohibiting slavery, there are an estimated 30 million slaves around the world today on every populated continent. It’s a $30+ billion dollar industry, and about half that amount is generated in industrialized economies. An estimated 7% of human trafficking occurs in the European Union, United States, Canada, Australia, Israel, and Japan. :mad:
The peaceful {Muslims} seem to be the secular ones who are only nominally Muslim.
There are observant and peaceful Muslims around here.
Look at it this way, if I cited a bunch of articles from sites founded by, funded by, and ran by politically liberal individuals as proof that the Church hates homosexuals would you view these articles and sites as scholarly and/or unbiased? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because their aim is to push a political agenda, with their works designed to support this agenda (selective reporting, biased research, non-scholarly methodology, etc).

What if I did the same in regards to Mr. Dawkins and the organizations he is associated with/funds as proof that religion (as a whole) is evil? Would you view his works as unbiased and scholarly? I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t because, like above, he has a political/social agenda and, like Mr. Spencer, he isn’t anywhere near what one should consider a subject matter expert or “learned individual” on the subject he is writing on.
👍
Islam has the fundamental problem that its FOUNDER used deception to defeat his enemies in long term strategy.
According to an account many Muslims are reluctant to give too much credence to (among other reasons, because it does not cite sources), Muhammad allowed someone else to devise a plan to deceive confederated siege armies. Not quite what some seem to depict this event to be.
This makes it awfully hard for would-be reformers to claim that Allah despises deceit and treachery, no?
Correction on this point: According to the Muslim commentators I read, Islam forbids treachery even in war. The dissimulation that is allowed does not extend to betrayal of treaties, covenants, etc. There are ahadith in which Muhammad refuses spoils taken by treachery.
 
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