Robert Spencer?

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GaryTaylor said:
Robert Spencer

“This is a recurring phenomenon: when non-Muslims point out that Islamic jihadists commit acts of violence and justify them by reference to the Qur’an, many non-Muslim and Muslim apologists for jihad, include many who are widely known as “moderates” respond by claiming that the one who is pointing out all this is committing an act of “hatred,” “bigotry,” “Islamophobia,” and the like. They don’t have a word to say about the actual acts of violence, hatred and supremacism committed by the jihadists — no, the real villain is the one who reports on these actions.”

Predictable I would say.
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that’s it in a nut shell. People don’t want to hear the truth and when people lIke Robert Spencer have the guts to research and publish it, then instead of looking at the evil and violence, they want to shoot the messenger or try to discredit him in saying that he doesn’t use the right Islamic sources which is a bogus argument.
 
Right, we are either going to have a charitable conversation on these issues, or re-action and circular nonsense, walls and defense, again Robert Spencer relates to this as “only the latest to find themselves on the receiving end of this strange form of cognitive dissonance”

We are seeing it unfold before our eyes. 😉
 
GaryTaylor:
Nope just discuss it, the “re-action” isn’t needed. Sounds like a page out of Robert Spencer.
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Women in Islam, freedom of religion, crime-punishment.
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“This is a recurring phenomenon: when non-Muslims point out that Islamic jihadists commit acts of violence and justify them by reference to the Qur’an, many non-Muslim and Muslim apologists for jihad, include many who are widely known as “moderates” respond by claiming that the one who is pointing out all this is committing an act of “hatred,” “bigotry,” “Islamophobia,” and the like. They don’t have a word to say about the actual acts of violence, hatred and supremacism committed by the jihadists — no, the real villain is the one who reports on these actions.”
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Predictable I would say.
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Why can’t you understand that Islam is not an issue here.
You are connstantly shifting debate to Islam. I don’t want to discuss Islam because it doesn’t matter!!!
If you what disscus Islam open a new thread.
 
pietro1 said:
GaryTaylor:

Why can’t you understand that Islam is not an issue here.
You are connstantly shifting debate to Islam. I don’t want to discuss Islam because it doesn’t matter!!!
If you what disscus Islam open a new thread.
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indirectly it is about Islam because this is about Robert Spencer who writes about Islam and exposes it’s history and teaching which cuts against the so called politically correct idea that we are more similar or equal to islam and all the Christians have to do is have more “understanding” and dialog. The problem is that if real teachings and practice are exposed it uncomfortable and rather ugly. Talking about how women and children are treated as well as non-Muslims in Muslim countries is difficult to listen too but it needs to be done. Robert Spencer has a lot of guts, he has to have a body guard because there is a fatwa against him. Looking at Islam is not very pretty and its teaching and history is violent. Exposing this takes time and bravery. He deserves our admiration not belittling.
 
pietro1 said:
Why can’t you understand that Islam is not an issue
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Robert Spencer is discussing Islam, we are discussing Robert Spencer and his view on Islam. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation to start.

If you don’t want to discuss the views that Robert Spencer is discussing, I get it. you don’t have to. I really do, as you see it occurs with Christians also. It is difficult for many to accept that such an ideology can be real and that people kill and die for it. Therefore it is even more difficult and painful on a point to point basis. But indeed this is what Robert Spencer is talking about.

Is this difficult for you to talk about?
 
pietro1 said:
GaryTaylor:
Why can’t you understand that Islam is not an issue here.
You are connstantly shifting debate to Islam. I don’t want to discuss Islam because it doesn’t matter!!!
If you what disscus Islam open a new thread.
Click to expand...
Then please tell us where is Robert Spencer wrong when he writes about Islam?

It should not be so difficult.
 
Then please tell us where is Robert Spencer wrong when he writes about Islam?
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It should not be so difficult.
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He is
Where is he right or wrong , when he writes about Islam isn’t the right question.
The question is: Is he speaking hatred against Muslims? - yes he is! I have already explainded this in detail before, but in fact it is very simple: if you claim that Muslims are violent becuase they are Muslims, you will prejudice Muslims. Of course he is denying this accusation but this doesn’t mean he is right. Ok? - It’s obvious.
 
pietro1 said:
He is
Where is he right or wrong , when he writes about Islam isn’t the right question.
The question is: Is he speaking hatred against Muslims? - yes he is! I have already explainded this in detail before, but in fact it is very simple: if you claim that Muslims are violent becuase they are Muslims, you will prejudice Muslims. Of course he is denying this accusation but this doesn’t mean he is right. Ok? - It’s obvious.
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pietro1, I addressed this on post #180, cut and paste below, its circular reasoning without addressing the issues.

“many non-Muslim and Muslim apologists for jihad, include many who are widely known as “moderates” respond by claiming that the one who is pointing out all this is committing an act of “hatred,” “bigotry,” “Islamophobia,” and the like. They don’t have a word to say about the actual acts of violence, hatred and supremacism committed by the jihadists — no, the real villain is the one who reports on these actions.” Spencer

Your claim is framed above. You see Robert Spencer has the Constitutional Right as an American. Are you aware of this, this is part of why I asked you about where you live. I believe he has the right to speak.
 
Robert Spencer is discussing Islam, we are discussing Robert Spencer and his view on Islam. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation to start.
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If you don’t want to discuss the views that Robert Spencer is discussing, I get it. you don’t have to. I really do, as you see it occurs with Christians also. It is difficult for many to accept that such an ideology can be real and that people kill and die for it. Therefore it is even more difficult and painful on a point to point basis. But indeed this is what Robert Spencer is talking about.
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Is this difficult for you to talk about?
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I think we’ve been through this already.
indirectly it is about Islam because this is about Robert Spencer who writes about Islam and exposes it’s history and teaching which cuts against the so called politically correct idea that we are more similar or equal to islam and all the Christians have to do is have more “understanding” and dialog. The problem is that if real teachings and practice are exposed it uncomfortable and rather ugly. Talking about how women and children are treated as well as non-Muslims in Muslim countries is difficult to listen too but it needs to be done. Robert Spencer has a lot of guts, he has to have a body guard because there is a fatwa against him. Looking at Islam is not very pretty and its teaching and history is violent. Exposing this takes time and bravery. He deserves our admiration not belittling.
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No it is not about Islam at all, it is about christianity and should be, because Robert Spencer is Christian - and we are too right?
 
GaryTaylor:
pietro1, I addressed this on post #180, cut and paste below, its circular reasoning without addressing the issues.
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“many non-Muslim and Muslim apologists for jihad, include many who are widely known as “moderates” respond by claiming that the one who is pointing out all this is committing an act of “hatred,” “bigotry,” “Islamophobia,” and the like. They don’t have a word to say about the actual acts of violence, hatred and supremacism committed by the jihadists — no, the real villain is the one who reports on these actions.” Spencer
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Your claim is framed above. You see Robert Spencer has the Constitutional Right as an American. Are you aware of this, this is part of why I asked you about where you live. I believe he has the right to speak.
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i have told you already he has that right, but should be someome that preach hate tolerated ? - no. and I know that one bishop canceled his speech. so it is not so obvious for all Americans
 
Right in circular reasoning without addressing the issues Robert Spencer is discussing. That’s what I am patiently waiting to discuss. I have lots a questions and patience. If your good, then I’ll wish you a good day. I still want to have this conversation. Or we can agree to let Robert Spencer speak since its his Right of Freedom of Speech in America. And agree to disagree. But the slander campaign is unacceptable. And if it was an American muslim I would feel the same way.

Do you have Freedom of Speech in your land?
 
JHow said:
Then please tell us where is Robert Spencer wrong when he writes about Islam?

It should not be so difficult.
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Please tell us how that Ancient Aliens guy and Mr. Dawkins get it wrong, but Mr. Spencer doesn’t given that all three are equally “qualified” to write about the subjects they do and all three are basically treated in a similar manner by actual experts and professionals on those subjects (i.e. they’re not taken seriously at all).
 
GaryTaylor said:
Right in circular reasoning without addressing the issues Robert Spencer is discussing. That’s what I am patiently waiting to discuss. I have lots a questions and patience. If your good, then I’ll wish you a good day. I still want to have this conversation. Or we can agree to let Robert Spencer speak since its his Right of Freedom of Speech in America. And agree to disagree. But the slander campaign is unacceptable. And if it was an American muslim I would feel the same way.

Do you have Freedom of Speech in your land?
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Please cite where anyone has slandered Mr. Spencer.
 
Post 180, is my reference. Here its a campaign to silence Spencer and against his Right as an American which I’m sure you agree he has?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Post 180, is my reference. Here its a campaign to silence Spencer and against his Right as an American which I’m sure you agree he has?
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Funny thing about post 180. I googled the comment and discovered that it links to- archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30431 (the site by the way is owned by the same guy who owns one or two other of the sites you’ve linked) which is a fluff piece supporting a movie by Geert Wilders who’s belief in religious freedom is so shallow that he has repeatedly called for the Quran to be banned in the Netherlands, compares it to Hitler’s book and calls for an immigration policy based around a person’s faith (ban Muslims from immigrating to the Netherlands).

I don’t know about you, but I personally wouldn’t go around citing comments that support a guy who’s view are so divergent from the views of my faith. But, that’s just me.

That aside, the comment itself reads like the standard “those mean bullies are trying to take away our rights and or silence us” type comments one sees posted by socially liberal groups who would rather play on emotions and fear than address the fact that their position lacks merit.
 
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