Rock Music at Mass

[japhy]

Wasn’t Jesus a rebel who bucked trends and challenged the authoritative religious rites of the day?

Like Passover, right? Yeah, he had nothing to do with those!

 

[VociMike]

Wasn’t Jesus a rebel who bucked trends and challenged the authoritative religious rites of the day?

In the first place, nobody here is God. He plays by different rules. In the second place, to rebel against human authority is one thing. To rebel against divine authority is an entirely different matter. Are there any Catholics here who don’t believe the Church posesses divine authority?

 

[benedictgal]

In the first place, nobody here is God. He plays by different rules. In the second place, to rebel against human authority is one thing. To rebel against divine authority is an entirely different matter. Are there any Catholics here who don’t believe the Church posesses divine authority?

Furthermore, Jesus wasn’t rebelling. As God, Jesus had every right to correct those Pharisees who were misinterpreting the law. Not all Pharisees were bad. Some had the genuine interest of the Jewish faith at heart. There were others, though, who were misinterpreting the Torah and not holding fast to the faith of Ancient Israel.

What Jesus did was nothing new. He was simply reiterating what Yahweh repeatedly told Ancient Isreal. If anyhing, the Pharisees Jesus was addressing were, themselves, the rebels.

 

[ethelzguy]

“Repeated claims”!?! I defy you to show a single post in this thread where this position has been put forth. Talk about exaggeration!

And if any “traditionalist” did put for such a claim (repeatedly! ), I would be the first to challenge it, and I would use these same Church documents to do so. And I know the other promoters of the ideals of sacred music as put forth by the Church would join me in challenging such a claim.

The “Advanced Search” feature of CAF reveals that “benedictgal” alone has made nearly 150 posts referencing chant.

And that’s just for starters…

 

[ethelzguy]

Then, perhaps you would care to post authoritative documentation form the Holy See that would support your stance. The words of the popes are very clear on the issue of Sacred music. The problem is that the spirit of rebellion and creativity that existed in the 1960s keeps rearing its ugly head. The younger generation actually appreciates genuine, sacred music, while the aging flower children of the 1960s, the ones who were responsible for this mess in music in the first place, continue to rebel and insist that the spirit of Vatican II is more important than what the documents actually said.

Your posts sound more and more like a particular protestant denomination that I am familiar with…

“If the bible says you can’t, you can’t”…If the bible doesn’t say you CAN, you still can’t"…

 

[ethelzguy]

The sad truth is that publishing houses like OCP that continue to shove the banal and the trite and market it as sacred music (making this junk especially palpable to poor parishes by offering deep discounts and grants)

If all else fails, resort to traditionalist conspiracy theories…

Where’s the Siri Thesis when I need it?

 

[LRThunder]

Your posts sound more and more like a particular protestant denomination that I am familiar with…

“If the bible says you can’t, you can’t”…If the bible doesn’t say you CAN, you still can’t"…

If all else fails, resort to traditionalist conspiracy theories…

Where’s the Siri Thesis when I need it?

I think we know you now disagree with her. Please don’t resort to personal attacks.

 

[ethelzguy]

I think we know you now disagree with her. Please don’t resort to personal attacks.

These kinds of comments should not go unaddressed…

The sad truth is that publishing houses like OCP that continue to shove the banal and the trite and market it as sacred music (making this junk especially palpable to poor parishes by offering deep discounts and grants)

When others attack the Church in this manner, I have no choice but to respond.

 

[japhy]

The “Advanced Search” feature of CAF reveals that “benedictgal” alone has made nearly 150 posts referencing chant.

In how many of these posts has she made “claims that anything but Gregorian Chant and pipe organs are unsuitable for Mass”?

 

[LRThunder]

These kinds of comments should not go unaddressed…

The sad truth is that publishing houses like OCP that continue to shove the banal and the trite and market it as sacred music (making this junk especially palpable to poor parishes by offering deep discounts and grants)

When others attack the Church in this manner, I have no choice but to respond.

I’m not saying you can’t, but it’s how you’re responding that means the difference between persuading people and just plain alienating them.

 

[ibkc]

The “Advanced Search” feature of CAF reveals that “benedictgal” alone has made nearly 150 posts referencing chant.

I, for one, appreciate benedictgal’s depth of knowledge about liturgy and music and the fact that she wants everyone to be educated about the Church’s official documents on these matters.

 

[ethelzguy]

I, for one, appreciate benedictgal’s depth of knowledge about liturgy and music and the fact that she wants everyone to be educated about the Church’s official documents on these matters.

Educating others through use of Church documents is one thing. Exaggerating interpretation of said documents to mislead others is quite another.

The documents so frequently quoted, comment as to types of music and instruments that are held in high regard or preferred.

Those statements in no way, shape, or form, specifically (or even sureptitiously) restrict or prohibit other forms of music or instrumentation.

Stating one’s opinion is one thing…proffering said opinion as “Church Teaching” is quite another.

TBL

 

[ibkc]

Educating others through use of Church documents is one thing. Exaggerating interpretation of said documents to mislead others is quite another.

I think most of us here are intelligent enough to read the excerpts she posts ourselves and figure out what they mean.

 

[ethelzguy]

The sad truth is that publishing houses like OCP that continue to shove the banal and the trite and market it as sacred music (making this junk especially palpable to poor parishes by offering deep discounts and grants) don’t seem to have ever read what the authoritative Church documents actually say about music. Just becuase something has Catholic in the middle of its name doesn’t necessarily make it so.

Would you please document where OCP has “made this junk especially palpable to poor parishes by offering deep discounts and grants”, including documentation that demonstrates that more “prosperous” parishes were offered lesser “discounts and grants” than “poor parishes” were?

I am concerned by the possible libelous nature of the above remarks.

Thanks.

 

[benedictgal]

OCP is not an ecclesial authority. It is merely a publshing house. Furthermore, it seems to perpetuate bad liturgical music through the many conferences that it sponsors.

Read this article:

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?id=4265

The author makes some points that are very clear and quite honest. It seems as though OCP is operating more under the “spirit” of Vatican II than by what the documents actually say.

 

[ethelzguy]

OCP is not an ecclesial authority. It is merely a publshing house. Furthermore, it seems to perpetuate bad liturgical music through the many conferences that it sponsors.

Read this article:

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?id=4265

The author makes some points that are very clear and quite honest. It seems as though OCP is operating more under the “spirit” of Vatican II than by what the documents actually say.

I am not addressing the authority of OCP. I am addressing your claim that implies that they deliberately target poor parishes as a method of purveying “bad liturgical music”.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

You’ve quoted the Marian antiphon for the season of Easter, no? That’s a great prayer, but it’s not what gives the three Sundays I mentioned their names.

I didn’t realize this was a quiz–I just answered yes.

Lux

 

[japhy]

I didn’t realize this was a quiz–I just answered yes.

I was asking a legitimate liturgical question that I would bet most American Catholics don’t know the answer to. I wonder how many have ever heard of “Gaudete Sunday” and “Laetare Sunday” (let alone “Rorate Sunday”).

These days get their names from the Introit. How many Catholics know that… or know what an “introit” is?

 

[VociMike]

I was asking a legitimate liturgical question that I would bet most American Catholics don’t know the answer to. I wonder how many have ever heard of “Gaudete Sunday” and “Laetare Sunday” (let alone “Rorate Sunday”).

These days get their names from the Introit. How many Catholics know that… or know what an “introit” is?

Quasimodo (Hunchback of Notre Dame) was so named because he was found on the church steps on Quasimodo Sunday, which term comes from the Introit for that Sunday (1st Sunday after Easter).

*“Quasi modo geniti infantes, rationabile, sine dolo lac concupiscite ut in eo crescatis in salutem si gustastis quoniam dulcis Dominus.” *
(“As newborn babes, desire the rational milk without guile, that thereby you may grow unto salvation: for you have tasted that the Lord is sweet.”)

 

[Sarabande]

Last Sunday we were subjected to a rock band at Mass that was comprised of cymbals, drums, electric guitars and the like - your basic secular grouping of instruments that comprise most top 40 and hard rock music bands.

While the band did play Matt Maher (sp) songs and “praise” music, tit just seemed completely inappropriate at Mass. I listen to his music on CD and enjoy it. But the idea of sacred music during the Mass is obviously not a consideration. There was no quiet time for prayer from 45 minutes before the Mass and after the Mass the breakdown made it impossible to sit or kneel in prayer following the Mass. There was never a quiet moment duriong the Mass at all. Entire lines of the Gloria and the Agnus Dei were omitted and during the great Amen and other responses, lines were added to the response that the assembly was not aware of. The Responsorial Psalm was not the assigned Psalm for that Sunday.

This particular Mass is probably the most “traditional” at our church and I really question the wisdom of the pastor choosing to make this particular Mass the new guitar Mass for the New Millenium. What are the guidelines and requirements for music at Mass. I am not a canon lawyer and really do not have the time to find where I might make a defense of a more reverent Mass for those in our parish who would rather not be subjected to this type of Mass every Sunday. I adore our homilist at this Mass and do not want to change parishes or Mass times. How can the pastor be approached and with what ammunition that helps to preserve the solem atmosphere of Sunday Mass?

When you do meet with him, first let him know in your own way and own words how important you believe he is to the parish. Let him know how excellent of a homilist he. Focus on his reverence and inspiration as a priest, etc. (Only do it if you believe it. Flattery is horrible and can be smelled a mile away when it’s not sincere.) When you bring up potentially touchy subjects like this, especially with people who you like and respect, it’s vital to show that you mean no harm, condemnation or negativity towards them.

Then let him know how important this parish is to you and your family, how you want to see the parish thrive spiritually, etc. After that, get into discussing about the mass you attended and kindly express your concern about the music choices and the lack of silence and reverence prior and after mass. Kindly explain why you feel this way, but also ensure him that it’s not necessarily the music that you dislike (as you enjoy listening to it outside of mass), but the usage of it and the way it was played during a mass. He may want to respond at this point. Listen attentively and respectfully to really hear what he has to say and then make your educated response to him, whatever it may be.

Some of the people on here provided a bunch of sources that you can use for your reasonings. It’s important NOT to present it as if you are saying, “I’m absolutely right on this and you must change the music at the mass.” You can say kindly and sweetly how more and more you’ve been feeling that the present music employeed for mass just doesn’t seem to fit into what the Church appears to have been requiring us to uphold. Be sure to let him know that you are not some person who only wants chant, as that is not your intent with speaking to him about this. But let him know your concern as to how the parish is striving to try to meet what the Church appears to like to have us as Catholics achieve universally in our churches. Present those documents to him which were linked here so that he knows you’re not just pulling it out of the air. Ensure him that you are not trying to turn the parish upside down and that you are bringing this up with the utmost respect. If he appears open to this, offer to help him implement this at least at one of the masses or to just work on making it a more reverent little by little so that the change is gradual and not socking people in the face.

Anyway, I’ve found that handling any situation in a similar way has always helped to get people on both sides to listen and to eventually make a change for the better. If one or both sides appear closed and stubborn, though, it won’t work. So always be sure that you make them comfortable into knowing that you are not their enemy, but someone who wants to make things work for the better of everyone and for the Church. God bless.