Converts from where?
From other churches: Mainstream Protestants, non-denominationals, some Catholics:
Would that be true of the Greek Orthodox too? (By “Greek Orthodox”, I mean Church of Greece, or Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in the US.) My impression has always been that they are thoroughly Greek in both a religious and a cultural sense. To a lesser extent I’ve seen this among Antiochian (Syrians/Lebanese) as well, though where I lived, there was a sizeable Levantine population.Angel_Gabriel:
Exactly - I’d say “all”. It seems to be the normal status of an Orthodox parish (of any jurisdiction) in America that the majority of parishioners are converts (ours is over 90% convert)
That’s certainly the case in Australia. ++Stylianos, GO Archbishop of Aus, sadly passed away last year and his funeral (which was broadcast) was a very Greek affair. Most of the speeches were delivered in Greek and then translated into English.
You’re right, there are definitely more “cradle-Orthodox” in Greek churches (since Greeks are the biggest Orthodox population in America) but even their churches have a healthy portion of converts:
I have always gotten the vibe — no one has ever come right out and said it — that Orthodox like the idea of men converting to Orthodoxy, then becoming priests, because, you know, more priests. I can fully understand why they would feel this way.HomeschoolDad:
You’re right, there are definitely more “cradle-Orthodox” in Greek churches (since Greeks are the biggest Orthodox population in America) but even their churches have a healthy portion of converts:
St. Philothea (Athens, Georgia) is one of the closest Greek churches to me - their (American) priest converted to Orthodoxy in his 20s. Half their parish is ethnic Greek, the other half are American converts who speak with Southern accents.
I think Catholics would like that too, of course
Oh, yes, we surely would.HomeschoolDad:
I think Catholics would like that too, of course
keep in mind, though, that in some cases, it is the EC church that is the historic church, with the orthodox counterparts having been raised after the church itself entered communion with Rome . . .
I’d compare them more to the old believers . . . or the SSPX to the Popovtsy, and the sedevacantiss to the Bezpopovtsy . . .
Yes. That analogy would work as well.
(Although yes, I realize that at one time SSPX at least appeared to be fully vagante in its earlier days under LeFebre, but ROCOR was also perilously close to being vagante as well, being only in communion with the Serbian and Jerusalem Patriarchates.)And yet, there are roughly 20million Lutherans in Africa, and roughly half of all Anglicans live there.
My post is about both communites’ particular experience in Australia, not Africa.And yet, there are roughly 20million Lutherans in Africa, and roughly half of all Anglicans live there.
But you framed the problem in terms of Anglicans too English, Lutherans too German.JonNC:
My post is about both communites’ particular experience in Australia, not Africa.And yet, there are roughly 20million Lutherans in Africa, and roughly half of all Anglicans live there.
Yes. The decline of attachment to English and German identities have been well trotted out in Australian Anglican and Lutheran literature in explaining - in part - the substantial decline of both churches in Australia.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.JonNC:
Yes. The decline of attachment to English and German identities have been well trotted out in Australian Anglican and Lutheran literature in explaining - in part - the substantial decline of both churches in Australia.
The point was that the Orthodox Churches often bear the brunt of charges of ethnophyletism or being bound to particular cultural expressions of Christianity. Often an unfavourable comparison is made to Western Christianity which has more extensive mission. But in Australia, it seems that Western Christianity often experiences the same problem.
An example: Former Anglican Abp. Of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, said that he didn’t convert to EO in part because he didn’t want to ‘go around in funny ethnic costume’, and the profound irony is that the same thing is being said today by many Australians about the Anglican Church of Australia: nobody wants to attend a Mothering Sunday service, or the vicar’s tea party, or talk about George Herbert because all these things are evocative of a tradition that is otherwise culturally foreign to contemporary Australia.
There are times and places when no amount of “ethnic peculiarities” will even slow down the spread of the gospel. Africa might be like that. Even my own American RC diocese, as well as local Lutherans, flourished despite ethnic peculiarities and divisions beyond belief. (Think WW1 and WW 2, etc)
I think of ROCOR as the kinda-sorta “Russian Orthodox SSPX”.dochawk:
Yes. That analogy would work as well.
Except the SSPX is in a state of " irregular communion" with the rest of the Catholic Church while the Popovtsy were in a state of full schism with the Russian Orthodox Church, if my limited knowledge of Old Believerism is true.