Roe vs. Wade based on a lie

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mannyfit75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mannyfit75

Guest
If anyone wants to know the history of Roe vs. Wade Supreme Court Decision in 1973, the court ruling itself is based on a lie.
In 1970, attorneys Linda Coffee and Sarah Weddington filed suit in Texas on behalf of Norma L. McCorvey (“Jane Roe”). McCorvey claimed her pregnancy was the result of rape, although she now says that claim was false.[3] The defendant in the case was Dallas County District Attorney Henry Wade, representing the State of Texas.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

Norma L. McCorvey is now reformed and became Catholic in 1998. Prior to her life as Catholic she was a converted to Protestant Christianity.

For you individuals who support abortion, you are supporting abortion case based on BIG LIE. You have been deceived by Father of Lies, who said that abortion is not killing an unborn child.
 
It’s my favorite twist to the whole story…
Roe is Pro-life! She was lied to…

From that Wikipedia link…
Norma McCorvey became a member of the pro-life movement in 1995; she now supports making abortion illegal. In 1998, she testified to Congress:
It was my pseudonym, Jane Roe, which had been used to create the “right” to abortion out of legal thin air. But Sarah Weddington and Linda Coffee never told me that what I was signing would allow women to come up to me 15, 20 years later and say, “Thank you for allowing me to have my five or six abortions. Without you, it wouldn’t have been possible.” Sarah never mentioned women using abortions as a form of birth control. We talked about truly desperate and needy women, not women already wearing maternity clothes.
As a party to the original litigation, she sought to reopen the case in U.S. District Court in Texas to have Roe v. Wade overturned. However, the Fifth Circuit decided that her case was moot, in McCorvey v. Hill.[51] In a concurring opinion, Judge Edith Jones agreed that McCorvey was raising legitimate questions about emotional and other harm suffered by women who have had abortions, about increased resources available for the care of unwanted children, and about new scientific understanding of fetal development, but Jones said she was compelled to agree that the case was moot. On February 22, 2005, the Supreme Court refused to grant a writ of certiorari, and McCorvey’s appeal ended.
 
It’s my favorite twist to the whole story…
Roe is Pro-life! She was lied to…
That she did not realize in the beginning that there were others who would later abuse the right does not mean that it made it untrue that desperate and needy women would be better served with access to legal and relatively safe abortions compared to the backstreet septic illegal ones they were already pursuing, with a very high rate of maternal mortality and complications.

guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/2/gr060203.html looks at a comparison of maternal death rates due to abortion in countries with and without access to legal abortion.
 
That she did not realize in the beginning that there were others who would later abuse the right does not mean that it made it untrue that desperate and needy women would be better served with access to legal and relatively safe abortions compared to the backstreet septic illegal ones they were already pursuing, with a very high rate of maternal mortality and complications.

guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/2/gr060203.html looks at a comparison of maternal death rates due to abortion in countries with and without access to legal abortion.
The maternal mortality rates in the countries were abortion is restricted are more likely caused by poor health care availability, then the fact that abortion is restrictied. It is comparing nations with the best health systems in the world to the ones with some of the worst. That article is twisting truth in more ways then one.
 
That she did not realize in the beginning that there were others who would later abuse the right does not mean that it made it untrue that desperate and needy women would be better served with access to legal and relatively safe abortions compared to the backstreet septic illegal ones they were already pursuing, with a very high rate of maternal mortality and complications.

guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/2/gr060203.html looks at a comparison of maternal death rates due to abortion in countries with and without access to legal abortion.
The maternal mortality rates in the countries were abortion is restricted are more likely caused by poor health care availability, then the fact that abortion is restrictied. It is comparing nations with the best health systems in the world to the ones with some of the worst. That article is twisting truth in more ways then one.
 
The maternal mortality rates in the countries were abortion is restricted are more likely caused by poor health care availability, then the fact that abortion is restrictied. It is comparing nations with the best health systems in the world to the ones with some of the worst. That article is twisting truth in more ways then one.
Did you actually read the study? It separates out abortion-related mortality vs. that from other pregnancy-related causes. Are you missing the fact that illegal abortions are poor health care—that only the affluent in such a situation may be able to afford to persuade a medical practitioner to perform an illegal procedure rather than the poor woman, who will seek any means available-- regardless of the health care available otherwise?

"Of the 46 million abortions occurring worldwide each year, 20 million are illegal. As was the case with affluent U.S. women in the years before Roe, a small proportion of women living in urban areas in some developing countries may be able to afford the services of a private physician who can perform a safe, if still illegal, abortion. Not so, however, for the vast majority who live in extreme poverty, in rural areas or otherwise without access to emergency hospital care for the treatment of complications of an abortion induced by crude and often dangerous traditional methods.

According to the World Health Organization, about 13% of the 500,000 deaths worldwide from pregnancy-related causes each year are associated with unsafe abortion; in Latin America, the proportion is as high as 21%. In Egypt, abortion-related problems are responsible for about one-fifth of all obstetric and gynecologic admissions. Indeed, in some developing countries, women suffering from complications of illegal abortion account for two of every three maternity hospital beds in large urban hospitals, consuming as much as one-half of obstetrics and gynecology budgets.

In some parts of the world, lay practitioners’ use of noninvasive techniques and the increasing availability of antibiotics may be having a positive impact in lowering infection rates associated with clandestine abortion procedures. (In the United States, abortion-related maternal deaths declined sharply following the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s.) Experience in country after country has shown, however, that reducing the need to resort to unsafe procedures and untrained practitioners—through legalization and bringing the provision of services into the open—has a direct and immediate effect on reducing abortion-related mortality and, therefore, overall maternal mortality rates.

Six months after abortion was legalized in Guyana in 1995, for example, admissions for septic and incomplete abortion dropped by 41%. Previously, septic abortion had been the third largest, and incomplete abortion the eighth largest, cause of admissions to the country’s public hospitals. Another stark example is Romania, where abortion was legally available from 1957 until 1966. The Ceaucescu regime then outlawed abortion in 1966 as part of its pronatalist policy, which led to soaring maternal death rates. Maternal death rates than fell dramatically once abortion was relegalized in 1990 after Ceaucescu’s ouster (see chart)."

This is an entirely separate issue from the morality or immorality of an abortion. It is about the likelihood of fatal consequences in a relatively safe and medically sound procedure vs. a septic, backstreet one. The key is to reduce or eliminate the need/desire for abortions by reducing the factors that lead to it as much as possible.
 
KarenNC;2424007]Did you actually read the study? //////////////////////////////////////////
Yea.

http://www.artl.org/graphics/pba_sketch.gif
Abortiion isn’t health care. Legal or illegal.:mad:
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of the National Abortion Rights Action League, admits his group lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions when testifying before the Supreme Court in 1972. “We spoke of 5,000 - 10,000 deaths a year… I confess that I knew the figures were totally false … it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?”
ABORTION LIES AND MYTHS
 
So what was the motivation behind the statistics from other countries? Can’t have been Roe v. Wade.
The heck it couldn’t. People in those countries perhaps trying to persuade their own governments to legalise abortion in the light of publicised cases like Roe v Wade?
 
The heck it couldn’t. People in those countries perhaps trying to persuade their own governments to legalise abortion in the light of publicised cases like Roe v Wade?
“Another stark example is Romania, where abortion was legally available from 1957 until 1966. The Ceaucescu regime then outlawed abortion in 1966 as part of its pronatalist policy, which led to soaring maternal death rates. Maternal death rates than fell dramatically once abortion was relegalized in 1990 after Ceaucescu’s ouster (see chart).”

Roe v. Wade was in 1973.
 
“Another stark example is Romania, where abortion was legally available from 1957 until 1966. The Ceaucescu regime then outlawed abortion in 1966 as part of its pronatalist policy, which led to soaring maternal death rates. Maternal death rates than fell dramatically once abortion was relegalized in 1990 after Ceaucescu’s ouster (see chart).”

Roe v. Wade was in 1973.
And the relegalisation in 1990 couldn’t possibly have been influenced in any way by pro-abortion propaganda filtering through from the West (the US specifically)? About the unmitigated joys of the fact that US women had been able since Roe v Wade to dispose of unwanted babies at whim? :rolleyes:
 
And the relegalisation in 1990 couldn’t possibly have been influenced in any way by pro-abortion propaganda filtering through from the West (the US specifically)? About the unmitigated joys of the fact that US women had been able since Roe v Wade to dispose of unwanted babies at whim?
The relegalization in Romania, abuses of Roe v. Wade, etc have nothing to do with the simple statistically shown fact that legal abortions are less deadly to the mother than illegal ones overall. This is borne out in multiple countries in multiple situations. Whether abortion itself is desirable, moral, etc is an entirely separate question.

Did you see my statement?
“The key is to reduce or eliminate the need/desire for abortions by reducing the factors that lead to it as much as possible.”

I am not a proponent of abortion, nor do I advocate its use for birth control. I have never had one, nor do I believe that I ever could or would. However, if women are going to use it, I would rather see a medically sound avenue for that for all women who choose to use it, not just the affluent ones. I am not a proponent of capital punishment either, but, if it is going to be used, I would rather see it done in as humane a way as possible.

Making inaccurate statements does nothing but weaken your position and hence your cause.
 
The relegalization in Romania, abuses of Roe v. Wade, etc have nothing to do with the simple statistically shown fact that legal abortions are less deadly to the mother than illegal ones overall. This is borne out in multiple countries in multiple situations. Whether abortion itself is desirable, moral, etc is an entirely separate question.

Did you see my statement?
“The key is to reduce or eliminate the need/desire for abortions by reducing the factors that lead to it as much as possible.”

I am not a proponent of abortion, nor do I advocate its use for birth control. I have never had one, nor do I believe that I ever could or would. However, if women are going to use it, I would rather see a medically sound avenue for that for all women who choose to use it, not just the affluent ones. I am not a proponent of capital punishment either, but, if it is going to be used, I would rather see it done in as humane a way as possible.

Making inaccurate statements does nothing but weaken your position and hence your cause.
Oh I agree that legal abortions are generally safer (for the mother - the same result occurs in any event for the child) than illegal ones. You seemed to be implying that there was no link betwen Roe v Wade and the legalisation in Romania, and I disagre, that’s all. That’s a side issue in any event.

As Catholics we can’t condone what we believe to be intrinsically evil in any way - not even by making it safer for those who choose to commit it.
 
The relegalization in Romania, abuses of Roe v. Wade, etc have nothing to do with the simple statistically shown fact that legal abortions are less deadly to the mother than illegal ones overall. This is borne out in multiple countries in multiple situations. Whether abortion itself is desirable, moral, etc is an entirely separate question.

Did you see my statement?
“The key is to reduce or eliminate the need/desire for abortions by reducing the factors that lead to it as much as possible.”

I am not a proponent of abortion, nor do I advocate its use for birth control. I have never had one, nor do I believe that I ever could or would. However, if women are going to use it, I would rather see a medically sound avenue for that for all women who choose to use it, not just the affluent ones. I am not a proponent of capital punishment either, but, if it is going to be used, I would rather see it done in as humane a way as possible.

Making inaccurate statements does nothing but weaken your position and hence your cause.
I agree with this 100%!

Kim
 
As Catholics we can’t condone what we believe to be intrinsically evil in any way - not even by making it safer for those who choose to commit it.
I understand that. I am only trying to provide accurate information. Differentiating between facts and dramatic hype in an argument and acknowledging those facts even if they are not 100% in support of one’s cause is not condoning.
 
I understand that. I am only trying to provide accurate information. Differentiating between facts and dramatic hype in an argument and acknowledging those facts even if they are not 100% in support of one’s cause is not condoning.
You seem to focus on how many mothers die in legal v illegal abortions. I think you are completeing missing the point!! In every abortion the child is being murdered so every effort (legally) should be made into stopping all abortions whether legal or illegal.
 
You seem to focus on how many mothers die in legal v illegal abortions. I think you are completeing missing the point!! In every abortion the child is being murdered so every effort (legally) should be made into stopping all abortions whether legal or illegal.
No, I get the point. I just don’t see that anything is gained by using incorrect statements in pursuit of this goal. In fact, much is lost because the rest of your argument will be discounted.

I, too, would love to see a world in which there was no demand for abortion.
 
I understand that. I am only trying to provide accurate information. Differentiating between facts and dramatic hype in an argument and acknowledging those facts even if they are not 100% in support of one’s cause is not condoning.
If that is true then why did you post information from a pro-abortion organization?:mad:
 
If that is true then why did you post information from a pro-abortion organization?
I do not see the Guttmacher Institute as a “pro-abortion” organization. I agree it is not a Catholic institution, but I do not view religious institutions as necessarily the only source for scientific and statistical information. Looking at studies and statistical analysis on an issue does not make an organization “pro-abortion.” The CDC is not “pro-malaria” when it looks at rates of incidence and potential causes of malaria worldwide. It is simply saying “here is what is happening and here are the factors that appear from statistical analysis to be influencing it.” They certainly do not shy away from discussions of abortion or contraception, I agree.

My point to LilyM was that, whether or not one condones something, one still needs to look at whatever factual information is available on the subject to understand the actual context of the problem and whether that matches one’s perception of it. Eliminating the demand for abortion will only be accomplished by looking at the actual underlying causes and working to resolve those causes. Without an understanding of the causes, one can spend tremendous energy on strategies that will, in the end, prove ineffective.
 
I do not see the Guttmacher Institute as a “pro-abortion” organization. .
You may claim what you want, and I have comapssion for your blindness.
ALAN F. GUTTMACHER 1898-1974
The Guttmacher Institute, an independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt organization with offices in New York and Washington, D.C., was established in 1968 to provide research, policy analysis and education in the fields of reproductive health, reproductive rights and population. It was named to honor a distinguished obstetrician-gynecologist, author and leader in reproductive rights. While Alan F. Guttmacher was president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America and a leader in the International Planned Parenthood Federation in the 1960s and early 1970s, he saw the need for the institution that now bears his name, and he nurtured its development.
But it is a pro-abortion organization that wants to spread its evil message to all ends of the earth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top