Rohr video: What did Jesus Really Teach?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mystical_Seeker
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, thank you. And that seemed to reveal a pretty shallow understanding of the faith, including biblical morality. Does Fr Rohr really think abortion is strictly a modern day concern, as if the Church would never have bothered addressing the issue if it became legalized in the past, which for* some *reason it wasn’t in Christian countries?
I wouldn’t like to say he has a shallow understanding of the faith, he knows a great deal more about it than I.
I think he might mean that abortion and sexual issues have become overly promoted (I do not mean that we should not stand for what we believe regarding abortion) but that it may have taken over many other issues we have concerning people living in poorer conditions etc.

I know some parishes that deal with alot of issues and are very supportive of them, so both can be done.

In the past, people thought differently, but I think I’m right in saying women still aborted their babies whether it was legal or not. Wasn’t that why abortion became legal in even christian countries, because women were hurting themselves and even killing themselves by trying to abort children.
 
I wouldn’t like to say he has a shallow understanding of the faith, he knows a great deal more about it than I.
I think he might mean that abortion and sexual issues have become overly promoted (I do not mean that we should not stand for what we believe regarding abortion) but that it may have taken over many other issues we have concerning people living in poorer conditions etc.

I know some parishes that deal with alot of issues and are very supportive of them, so both can be done.

In the past, people thought differently, but I think I’m right in saying women still aborted their babies whether it was legal or not. Wasn’t that why abortion became legal in even christian countries, because women were hurting themselves and even killing themselves by trying to abort children.
In the US the reason had to do with right to privacy/individual freedom and the argument that the fetus isn’t human life anyway although the court admitted that the stage decided on for allowing the unborn to be aborted was wholly arbitrary. In any case the matter hinges on whether or not human life is involved. If so then the Church along with the rest of humanity must protest.
 
I wouldn’t like to say he has a shallow understanding of the faith, he knows a great deal more about it than I.
Reverend Richard Rohr has expert knowledge of the Scholastic period in Catholic Church history along with knowledge of the Early Church Fathers. He has a Master’s Degree in Theology from the University of Dayton. He is an extremely talented writer and speaker. He has changed paths.
I think he might mean that abortion and sexual issues have become overly promoted (I do not mean that we should not stand for what we believe regarding abortion) but that it may have taken over many other issues we have concerning people living in poorer conditions etc.

I know some parishes that deal with alot of issues and are very supportive of them, so both can be done.

In the past, people thought differently, but I think I’m right in saying women still aborted their babies whether it was legal or not. Wasn’t that why abortion became legal in even christian countries, because women were hurting themselves and even killing themselves by trying to abort children.
I lived in the era of the “coat-hanger” abortion process and the mysterious trip of a young woman. I also remember the organization which helped women before and after birth. Adoption brought joy to my friend who wanted a family but for some reason she could not conceive.

To me, abortion will always be the death of a human person regardless.
 
Reverend Richard Rohr has expert knowledge of the Scholastic period in Catholic Church history along with knowledge of the Early Church Fathers. He has a Master’s Degree in Theology from the University of Dayton. He is an extremely talented writer and speaker. He has changed paths.
I’m curious, granny, what does it mean that he has “changed paths”?
 
I’m curious, granny, what does it mean that he has “changed paths”?
It is my understanding that Reverend Richard Rohr accomplished a lot of good. Considering his education and his vocation, he must have loved the Catholic Church with all his mind and heart. I will even guess that his early interest in emerging Christianity was prompted by his concern that people were leaving Catholicism.

His birthdate, 1943, places him in an era of deep concern for the Catholic Church and multiple solutions for problems. I have heard that this era, in certain geographical locations, is the grass roots of Vatican II.

The former Catholic priest, Matthew Fox, birthdate, 1940, is one of many who looked for “solutions” and chose against the Catholic Church. Father Rohr followed. Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women, sought new interesting solutions. One of the popular solutions was to get rid of Original Sin because it was an awful way to “indoctrinate” Catholics.

Instead of going forward on the path to understanding Catholicism’s Original Sin as found in the first three essential chapters of Genesis, Father Rohr chose the wrong fork in the road, that is, he left his original path and deliberately chose the path leading away from true Catholicism. He did this by firmly dropping those first three truth-filled chapters of Sacred Scripture. He continues with the goal of rebuilding Christianity from the bottom up. While the Catholic Church is Christian, it does not need rebuilding.
 
In the US the reason had to do with right to privacy/individual freedom and the argument that the fetus isn’t human life anyway although the court admitted that the stage decided on for allowing the unborn to be aborted was wholly arbitrary. In any case the matter hinges on whether or not human life is involved. If so then the Church along with the rest of humanity must protest.
Yes of course the church must protest.

My point was women will abort their babies whether it’s legal or not…sad I know, but this is evident from history.
 
Reverend Richard Rohr has expert knowledge of the Scholastic period in Catholic Church history along with knowledge of the Early Church Fathers. He has a Master’s Degree in Theology from the University of Dayton. He is an extremely talented writer and speaker. He has changed paths.

I lived in the era of the “coat-hanger” abortion process and the mysterious trip of a young woman. I also remember the organization which helped women before and after birth. Adoption brought joy to my friend who wanted a family but for some reason she could not conceive.

To me, abortion will always be the death of a human person regardless.
Yep he is an expert in his fields…

The coat-hanger thought sends chills down my spin…😦
A woman has got to be desperate beyond belief to go to those lengths…😦

Yes the death of a human person. Even the ‘cells’ that are first created can not be denied that they will eventually grow into a human.
 
It is my understanding that Reverend Richard Rohr accomplished a lot of good. Considering his education and his vocation, he must have loved the Catholic Church with all his mind and heart. I will even guess that his early interest in emerging Christianity was prompted by his concern that people were leaving Catholicism.

His birthdate, 1943, places him in an era of deep concern for the Catholic Church and multiple solutions for problems. I have heard that this era, in certain geographical locations, is the grass roots of Vatican II.

The former Catholic priest, Matthew Fox, birthdate, 1940, is one of many who looked for “solutions” and chose against the Catholic Church. Father Rohr followed. Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women, sought new interesting solutions. One of the popular solutions was to get rid of Original Sin because it was an awful way to “indoctrinate” Catholics.

Instead of going forward on the path to understanding Catholicism’s Original Sin as found in the first three essential chapters of Genesis, Father Rohr chose the wrong fork in the road, that is, he left his original path and deliberately chose the path leading away from true Catholicism. He did this by firmly dropping those first three truth-filled chapters of Sacred Scripture. He continues with the goal of rebuilding Christianity from the bottom up. While the Catholic Church is Christian, it does not need rebuilding.
I see. By “changed paths” I thought maybe I’d missed something along the way-and he’d moved to a more balanced position in relation to Church teachings but you seem to be saying that’s not the case. Now Mr Fox always seemed to me to be the Timothy Leary of the Catholic priesthood :).

Anyway, while I love and applaud the free thinking spirit and hearts earnestly seeking after God of past and present theologians and believers that led to much increased and clarified understanding of our faith, I know that this must still be done within the parameters set by Church teachings. Otherwise we easily end up on a variety of paths with no guidelines, no sure way of checking our progress-just winging it according to our imagination which doesn’t necessarily serve us well. Revelation is critical to human understanding or we wouldn’t need any person of the Trinity telling us anything, let alone saving us; humanity wouldn’t be lost; we’d already know where we are.
 
Good Morning Granny,
]The former Catholic priest, Matthew Fox, birthdate, 1940, is one of many who looked for “solutions” and chose against the Catholic Church. Father Rohr followed. Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women…
Granny Dear, are you bearing witness? If so, what proof do you have that Fr. Rohr has chosen against Catholicism? Before you answer that question, please read this:

DEFAMATION

Definition
Unjust injury of a person’s good name. It consists in telling facts that harm another’s reputation. In defamation, there is at least an implicit intention to harm the reputation of another, who is absent and therefore not a witness to being defamed.
Defamation may be committed in two ways: by spreading injurious facts that are true but not publicly known, or by saying things that are false.
catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=32987
… Father Rohr chose the wrong fork in the road, that is, he left his original path and deliberately chose the path leading away from true Catholicism.
SLANDER

Excerpts:

The important thing to note of slander is that it is a lesion of our neighbor’s right to his reputation.

Slander involves a violation of commutative justice and therefore imposes on its perpetrator the obligation of restitution. First of all, he must undo the injury of the defamation itself. There seems in general to be only one adequate way to do this: he must simply retract his false statement. Moralists say that if he can make full atonement by declaring that he has made a mistake, this will be sufficient; otherwise he must unequivocally take back his untruth, even at the expense of exhibiting himself a liar. In addition he is bound to make compensation to his victim for whatever losses may have been sustained as a result of his malicious imputation. It is supposed that the damage which ensues has been in some measure foreseen by the slanderer.

newadvent.org/cathen/14035b.htm

Please note: Dear, I am not accusing you of slander. For slander involves “attributing to another of a fault of which one knows him to be innocent”. It is clear that you do not “know” him to be innocent, for you have read his works and drawn your own conclusions. However, there is a gap in your knowing. You do not know his heart, and you certainly do not know his intent. What does one want for another’s reputation when one’s words are defamatory?

While ignorance is forgiven, it is not to be upheld, and it does not justify defamation.

Here are suggestions for a more Catholic approach to what you are trying to say:

“I disagree with Fr. Rohr on the importance of Original Blessing over Original Sin”

“In my opinion, Fr. Rohr is taking the wrong path.”

“While I mean no harm to Fr. Rohr’s reputation, I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that the Church needs rebuilding.”

You see, to set the example that defamation is acceptable in itself leads the flock astray, Granny. We are to love people and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. We are not to instill fear, divisiveness, aversion, and condemnation because these are against the Spirit. As I put on the other thread, I will put here, because it is worth a bit of Lectio Divina

I urge you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that all of you agree in what you say,
and that there be no divisions among you,
but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.
For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers and sisters,
by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.
I mean that each of you is saying,
“I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,”
or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
Is Christ divided?

1Cor1:10-13

Please, Granny, prayerfully consider the content of this post. Remember, I don’t always agree with him either. It doesn’t mean that we can say falsehoods.
 
Good Morning Granny,

Granny Dear, are you bearing witness? If so, what proof do you have that Fr. Rohr has chosen against Catholicism? Before you answer that question, please read this:
May I respectfully request that you know the difference between “Fr. Rohr has chosen against Catholicism” and this observation “Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women, sought new interesting solutions.”

Perhaps you are too young to understand "Old-time traditional Catholicism.

Those were the days before the first three essential chapters of Genesis were denied existence by the allegory approach. With the real first three historical chapters of Sacred Scripture in the trash, obviously new interesting solutions are being proposed.

Pardon me. Do you have any thoughts about rebuilding Christianity from the bottom up? Obviously, while the Catholic Church is part of Christianity, it does not need rebuilding from any direction.
 
grannymh;
Pardon me. Do you have any thoughts about rebuilding Christianity from the bottom up? Obviously, while the Catholic Church is part of Christianity, it does not need rebuilding from any direction.
Christianity began from the bottom up.

Christ was born in a stable and lived among the poor.

He chose 12 apostles, not from the upper class of society, but from the bottom.

The vast majority of saints, began at the bottom, or, gave up wealth and status to be at the bottom.

This is what Fr Rohr means about rebuilding from the bottom up.

BTW, please try to catch up with Vatican II, it transformed the mindsets of what you call Old Time Traditional Catholicism, which I too grew up in.

Jim
 
grannymh;

Christianity began from the bottom up.

Christ was born in a stable and lived among the poor.

He chose 12 apostles, not from the upper class of society, but from the bottom.

The vast majority of saints, began at the bottom, or, gave up wealth and status to be at the bottom.

This is what Fr Rohr means about rebuilding from the bottom up.

BTW, please try to catch up with Vatican II, it transformed the mindsets of what you call Old Time Traditional Catholicism, which I too grew up in.

Jim
This is true. On the other hand the grass roots approach has been used to support pushing for a wide variety of changes within the Church, some of them a bit beyond the pale.
 
May I respectfully request that you know the difference between “Fr. Rohr has chosen against Catholicism” and this observation “Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women, sought new interesting solutions.”
There is an enormous difference. “Choosing against Catholicism” is a general statement accusing someone of turning against the Church. “Turning away from old-time traditional Catholicism, these men, and many others, including women, sought new interesting solutions” (which is in itself an unsupported opinion, because Fr. Rohr draws from many Saints and scholars from our tradition) does not imply a turning away from the Church, but instead seeks to find solutions. “Finding solutions” is not a turning away from the Church, Granny, it is doing something to help the Church.

So, the questions remain:

Granny Dear, are you bearing witness? If so, what proof do you have that Fr. Rohr has chosen against Catholicism?

What is your source?
 
This is true. On the other hand the grass roots approach has been used to support pushing for a wide variety of changes within the Church, some of them a bit beyond the pale.
Sure, saints like St Francis of Assisi, but again, it was a bottom up call by Christ.

Heck, the Top Down are the one’s who were destroying the Church when Christ called Francis to rebuild his Church.

As Fr Rohr has written, when any religion becomes part of the power status, it looses the original teachings of the founders,… I’m paraphrasing here.

Christian Europe over the centuries has constantly gotten in bed with the wealth and powers of nations and has constantly had to be reformed, again, from the bottom up.

We become better Christians by acknowledging the dirty laundry of the past, rather than attempting to deny it existed.

Jim
 
Sure, saints like St Francis of Assisi, but again, it was a bottom up call by Christ.

Heck, the Top Down are the one’s who were destroying the Church when Christ called Francis to rebuild his Church.

As Fr Rohr has written, when any religion becomes part of the power status, it looses the original teachings of the founders,… I’m paraphrasing here.

Christian Europe over the centuries has constantly gotten in bed with the wealth and powers of nations and has constantly had to be reformed, again, from the bottom up.

We become better Christians by acknowledging the dirty laundry of the past, rather than attempting to deny it existed.

Jim
Well, yes, but my point is that it’s a two-way street; grass roots movements won’t always accomplish reform simply by virtue of coming from the grass roots level, even if the proponents have that in mind. Sometimes they’re just plain wrong-and mama church is right in her teachings regardless of whether or not her leaders, even, heed them.
 
Well, yes, but my point is that it’s a two-way street; grass roots movements won’t always accomplish reform simply by virtue of coming from the grass roots level, even if the proponents have that in mind. Sometimes they’re just plain wrong-and mama church is right in her teachings regardless of whether or not her leaders, even, heed them.
When its God calling them to reform the Church, it’s right.

As long as what the person is saying, doesn’t contradict the Gospel, the Church will eventually accept their words.

Teilhard de Chardin SJ is an example. At first, the Church silenced him as he wrote about evolution.

Now, the Church approves and even uses his work to justify the science of evolution as he and scientists have explained it.

Same is true with his teaching on the evolution of spirituality within the Church. The Church was at first, taken back, but later came to understand what he said.

Jim
 
When its God calling them to reform the Church, it’s right.

As long as what the person is saying, doesn’t contradict the Gospel, the Church will eventually accept their words.

Teilhard de Chardin SJ is an example. At first, the Church silenced him as he wrote about evolution.

Now, the Church approves and even uses his work to justify the science of evolution as he and scientists have explained it.

Same is true with his teaching on the evolution of spirituality within the Church. The Church was at first, taken back, but later came to understand what he said.

Jim
Ok-If I might ask, though, where has the church used his work?
 
Ok-If I might ask, though, where has the church used his work?
Ok, I have to admit it’s been a very longtime since I’ve read Chardin but I see that wiki offers some pretty commending citations from prominent Catholics, that at least show strong approval by them. I’m not so sure that the Church as a whole has anywhere officially approved of or utilized or integrated his teachings into her own doctrine, but I’m almost always impressed with the opinions of most of the figures listed.
 
Ok-If I might ask, though, where has the church used his work?
Where does the Church use any of the Saint’s work ?

The dogma’s of the Church haven’t changed.

So, I’m not sure what you’re asking?

Jim
 
Where does the Church use any of the Saint’s work ?

The dogma’s of the Church haven’t changed.

So, I’m not sure what you’re asking?

Jim
IDK, *you *stated that the Church uses Chardin’s work. As for the saints, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Augustine, Aquinas, Athanasius, et al, are directly “used” by the Church in the catechism in support of her doctrines. They contributed something that the Church has deemed worthy to help edify, encourage, explain, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top