Role of Pleasure in Sexual Intercourse

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Some things (A) we do because they are required (going to Mass is an example). Some things (B) we do because they are the best thing we could be doing at the moment. (Do I eat another piece of chocolate cake, or spend some time outside playing with my children?)

If neither spouse is particularly incented (in the contemporary way) to engage in the marital embrace, and the marriage is a healthy one (not in jeaopardy of separation) then I believe this falls into the (B) category of morality. If the couple has positive, grace-filled opportunities they are taking advantage of during time they might be ‘physically relating’ (e.g. spending time with the kids, serving the parish, feeding the hungry, teaching the illiterate, visiting the elderly and the sick, evangelizing the masses), then I don’t think there is much benefit in them participating in the act when it is not naturally compelling them to do so.

However, if they are watching TV in bed every evening instead of taking a little time to physically relate, I think they are missing out on good opportunities to make a better choice, to do something that we know helps marriages spiritually as well as emotionally. The marital act, performed in the manner in which God ordained, is a grace-filled event. Our souls, if not our bodies, benefit.

Dan
 
Once I watched in horror as an allegedly devout Catholic on another board ripped a poster to shreds for using the phrase “had sex with my wife” instead of using the term “make love.” Interestingly enough, the oh-so-offended poster was not married.

Of course it’s all right to have sex with your spouse because you want sex. “…Rejoice in the wife of your youth, a lovely deer, a graceful doe. May her breasts satisfy you at all times; may you be always intoxicated by her love,” Proverbs 5:18-19.

P.S. — if for some reason you disagree, whatever you do, don’t tell my wife!!!
 
Why would God not want us to have pleasure during sex, with our spouse? I guess I don’t understand the question. If one is selfishly only looking out for one’s self…then, that in and of itself would be sinful–but so would that behavior OUT OF THE BED.

I have often been taunted by my non Catholic friends in the way that they assume us Catholics ‘want’ to always feel guilty about something. God created sex for life…but to think that He wouldn’t want us to have pleasure with our spouse, is rather presumptious. There is nothing in the Cathechism that speaks to such a notion.
 
From the CCC:

2362 “The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude.”

Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.

2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
 
Feanaro said:
**This is a two part question.
  1. Do you think pleasure in sex is a purpose of sex?
and
  1. Do you think it is sinful to seek sex with ones spouse simply for pleasure, as long as the unitive and procreative aspects are kept intact?
Please explain your answers.
**
Click to expand...
  1. Yes, pleasure is a purpose of sex. It is not the only purpose.
  2. No, I don’t feel that it is sinful to seek sex with ones spouse simply for pleasure.
 
I can’t vote, I agree with Dan, because of the semantics problem.

No, pleasure is not a purpose of sex in the contemporary use of the word. Is it often a result? Yes. I note that I think the opposite of some people here. Unity results in pleasure, not the other way around. (I happen to think procreation results in pleasure too, but that could just be the pregnancy hormones talking. :p) Pleasure results in a feeling of unity, but not actual unity. Otherwise all of the fornicating couples who find sex so pleasurable would truly be united with a spouse, not just feeling united because of sex.

Is it sinful to engage in sex with one’s spouse simply for pleasure? Yes. Its that word simply that is the clincher for the yes. I can’t see how the procreative and unitive remain intact if it is sought simply for pleasure. What then, is causing the pleasure?

I compare this situation often to eating and sleeping. Gluttony and sloth rate right up there with lust in the ‘deadly’ category. Both eating and sleeping are also pleasurable, but only because God made it that way. The way I guess I am looking at the situation, especially based on Theology of the Body, is something sought simply for pleasure can’t keep the purpose of the act intact. Again, take eating. Eating some non-nutritious food satisfies the hunger signal. BUT, when does it become gluttony? It is when we eat simply for pleasure.
 
** In retrospect, I can see how simply was a bad word to use. Maybe primarily would have been better. That is why I stated “as long as the unitive and procreative aspects are kept in place”. I’ll give an example to better explain what I’m trying to get across.**
** I love my wife with all my heart, am extremely attracted to her and think she’s very sexy. When she walks by in skimpy underwear and tank top I want to make love to her right then. We are not contracepting, so the procreative is in place. I love how intimate I feel toward her when we are doing it and afterwards, so the unitive is there also. However, these may not be the first things on my mind at that moment. That’s what I mean by pleasure being the prime motivator. Now, I don’t think this is lust, because I don’t see her as just an object. The love is always there.**
**I still see physical pleasure as a purpose of sex. I repeat a purpose and not the purpose. We know some things have more than one purpose. The reason I see it as a purpose is because it is intrinsic to the act, just as unity and procreation are. I will admit that it is the least important one, but it is one nonetheless. Trouble occurs when we seek pleasure alone by trying to separate it from the unitive, procreative, or both. However, trouble also occurs when we seek procreation alone. Thus all the problems with in-vitro and what not.
 
Feanaro,

I am much like you. One difference, though. You think your wife is sexy. I know that mine is! 😛

Just kidding, I know what you meant!

I don’t find much that you say in your post that I disagree with.

What is the difference between sexual desire and sexual pleasure? What you refer to in your example appears to be sexual desire. That is what incents you to act! It is the ‘sex drive’. It is not necessarily the possibility of pleasure that gets you moving. If you had no desire to obtain the pleasure, and it took effort to do so, you probably would just sit there when your wife walked by.

It is obvious that God generally made us to physically desire sexual relations. I would say then, that the purpose of the desire is to call one to have sexual relations. So, when we use the term of ‘desire’, desire exists for sex’s purpose, sex does not exist for desire’s purpose.

The pleasure part is then just a result. Many call it just a release from the desire, a quenching of the thirst. So, I propose the following chain of events in your example above:
  1. Wife walks by, dressed as described.
  2. God-given sexual desire kicks in, creating a need.
  3. Brain, if it is functioning properly, quickly goes through the checklist:
    ----a. Is this my wife? Check.
    ----b. Am I willing to accept God’s will for the procreative aspects for what I am about to do? Check.
    ----c. Can I do this in such a way that she will reap the other benefits of the act, too? Check. (Might have to ask on this one, “Honey, are you in the mood?”)
    ----d. Are the blinds pulled, the kids in bed, and the door locked? Check.
    ----e. Shut down analytical brain. Turn on love machine.
  4. Emotional and Physical Desire Increase, propelling us towards the procreative, self-giving act.
  5. Act is completed, desire is extinquished, pleasure results.
I think desire was the primary reason for the action in your example.

Dan
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
The pleasure part is then just a result. Many call it just a release from the desire, a quenching of the thirst. So, I propose the following chain of events in your example above:
  1. Wife walks by, dressed as described.
  2. God-given sexual desire kicks in, creating a need.
  3. Brain, if it is functioning properly, quickly goes through the checklist:
    ----a. Is this my wife? Check.
    ----b. Am I willing to accept God’s will for the procreative aspects for what I am about to do? Check.
    ----c. Can I do this in such a way that she will reap the other benefits of the act, too? Check. (Might have to ask on this one, “Honey, are you in the mood?”)
    ----d. Are the blinds pulled, the kids in bed, and the door locked? Check.
    ----e. Shut down analytical brain. Turn on love machine.
  4. Emotional and Physical Desire Increase, propelling us towards the procreative, self-giving act.
  5. Act is completed, desire is extinquished, pleasure results.
I think desire was the primary reason for the action in your example.

Dan
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:eek: What a great example, I had to read it twice, I was laughing too hard the first time. That was funny, CHECK!! 👍
 
Thanks for the clarification Feanaro. “Simply” was the major problem I had and “a purpose” is still under discussion.

Dan, I totally agree with your assessment. This part was especially helpful,
“It is obvious that God generally made us to physically desire sexual relations. I would say then, that the purpose of the desire is to call one to have sexual relations. So, when we use the term of ‘desire’, desire exists for sex’s purpose, sex does not exist for desire’s purpose.”
Click to expand...
Since a virgin can experience desire for sex but not pleasure from sex, this definition works.

And I still agree that pleasure is only a result, but not a purpose. I think that why I believe that is because both procreation and unity can be interpreted objectively on some level. Pleasure is entirely subjective. For it to be a “purpose” it must be objectively sought. At least that is how I see it. I might be misunderstanding the older meanings of “purpose.”

Since my husband seldom uses the word “sexy,” I just waddled my pregnant body out there and asked a question. I stood in front of him with my arms straight out to the sides and asked, “Am I sexy?” Without missing a beat and with lit up eyes he answered, “Oh yeah!” It made my day. Thanks for the idea guys! 👍
 
This is a two part question.
Click to expand...
  1. Do you think pleasure in sex is a purpose of sex?
Click to expand...
and
Click to expand...
  1. Do you think it is sinful to seek sex with ones spouse simply for pleasure, as long as the unitive and procreative aspects are kept intact?
Click to expand...
Please explain your answers.
Click to expand...
Is this thread serious or a windup? 😛

Given the enormous areas of brain tissue in both male and female dedicated to processing pleasure of sex,.it does not seem likely that God would have allowed our hardwiring to be created in order to be sinful 😛

Neither does it make sense to say that God created neuronal circuitry to make us suffer 🙂

God created the brain, its inheritent hardwiring and neuro-chemistry to enable the pleasure of sex. That suggests to me that God intended us to enjoy it 👍

THIS MUST HOWEVER BE QUALIFIED: I am not making tacit agreement to perversion, paedophilia, violence in sex or forcing another into participating against their will, or other immoral acts which are in blatant breech of God’s moral law.

I would say ‘yes’ to both providing it is reciprocal and in a loving stable and committed relationship.

The questions have been put too simply but the issues are far more complex.
 
Let’s be honest, sex is an incredible, incredible pleasure that who gave us? God! Of course He intended for it to be wonderful and feel great, but it is to be kept in line. Sex is meant for bonding with your spouse and por-creation. Like alcohol, and even food, mankind abuses sex and it causes all kinds of problems physically and emotionally.
 
The_Catholic said:
Let’s be honest, sex is an incredible, incredible pleasure that who gave us? God! Of course He intended for it to be wonderful and feel great, but it is to be kept in line. Sex is meant for bonding with your spouse and por-creation. Like alcohol, and even food, mankind abuses sex and it causes all kinds of problems physically and emotionally.
Click to expand...
excellent insight!
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
Feanaro,

I am much like you. One difference, though. You think your wife is sexy. I know that mine is! 😛

Just kidding, I know what you meant!

I don’t find much that you say in your post that I disagree with.

What is the difference between sexual desire and sexual pleasure? What you refer to in your example appears to be sexual desire. That is what incents you to act! It is the ‘sex drive’. It is not necessarily the possibility of pleasure that gets you moving. If you had no desire to obtain the pleasure, and it took effort to do so, you probably would just sit there when your wife walked by.

It is obvious that God generally made us to physically desire sexual relations. I would say then, that the purpose of the desire is to call one to have sexual relations. So, when we use the term of ‘desire’, desire exists for sex’s purpose, sex does not exist for desire’s purpose.

The pleasure part is then just a result. Many call it just a release from the desire, a quenching of the thirst. So, I propose the following chain of events in your example above:
  1. Wife walks by, dressed as described.
  2. God-given sexual desire kicks in, creating a need.
  3. Brain, if it is functioning properly, quickly goes through the checklist:
    ----a. Is this my wife? Check.
    ----b. Am I willing to accept God’s will for the procreative aspects for what I am about to do? Check.
    ----c. Can I do this in such a way that she will reap the other benefits of the act, too? Check. (Might have to ask on this one, “Honey, are you in the mood?”)
    ----d. Are the blinds pulled, the kids in bed, and the door locked? Check.
    ----e. Shut down analytical brain. Turn on love machine.
  4. Emotional and Physical Desire Increase, propelling us towards the procreative, self-giving act.
  5. Act is completed, desire is extinquished, pleasure results.
I think desire was the primary reason for the action in your example.

Dan
Click to expand...
**
My wife and I got a good laugh out of this post, especially 3e, thanks. :rotfl:

Although I’m sure my brain goes through all those steps subconsciously. Consciously, I think I go from step 1 straight to step 4. 😃

Seriously though, that was a good point you brought up about desire. I guess that might have been what I was getting at with the second poll question. The point I think I was trying to make is that sexual intimacy between married couples isn’t always a conscious decision, but a physical reaction to stimulus. I tried to illustrate this with my example, and you clarified it well. Passion in a marriage is a good thing in my opinion. That’s why I like these threads. This is the time to analyze sexual conduct and the morality of our actions, not when we are in the throws of passion. It kind of kills the mood if you know what I mean.**
 
Dangrelinger wrote:
  1. Wife walks by, dressed as described.
  2. God-given sexual desire kicks in, creating a need.
  3. Brain, if it is functioning properly, quickly goes through the checklist:
    ----a. Is this my wife? Check.
    ----b. Am I willing to accept God’s will for the procreative aspects for what I am about to do? Check.
    ----c. Can I do this in such a way that she will reap the other benefits of the act, too? Check. (Might have to ask on this one, “Honey, are you in the mood?”)
    ----d. Are the blinds pulled, the kids in bed, and the door locked? Check.
    ----e. Shut down analytical brain. Turn on love machine.
  4. Emotional and Physical Desire Increase, propelling us towards the procreative, self-giving act.
  5. Act is completed, desire is extinquished, pleasure results.
Click to expand...
I would add:
  1. By the grace of God, a baby 🙂
 
Definition of Unitive.

**
**The **
Click to expand...
unitive element in the conjugal act is that the act by its very nature was meant to make a man and a woman “one flesh,” i.e.,** to unite them physically together****

ContraceptionByFatherChad.

**From most of the above posts it seems that unitive is understood as something spouses feel instead of the physical union. **
 
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