Role of women

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As an aside, would anyone know how I would explain “*For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body” * or “*As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. *” to my mom as well?
 
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harmonious:
Alright, I found out the name of the book. It’s called How to Change Your Husband. The author gives his name as “By a Friend of Medjugorje.” He supposedly made himself anonymous since he did not want to have any credit for writing the book.
The author probably wants proceeds from the book to go in support of the visionaries at Medjugorje. Those visions have nothing to do with the content of the book I’m sure. Medjugorje has not been officially accepted but has not been officially denied either.

If the book is well written it might contain information on how a woman might directly change herself in order to indirectly help her husband to change. Example: my husband claimed to be “too tired” to go to Mass one day. He knows that it is tough for me to take the baby by myself so he thought that I would just skip Mass. I packed up the baby and all his stuff and I went, alone. About ten minutes into Mass he sheepishly showed up and took charge of the squirming baby. That is how to change your husband, by changing yourself.

If your mom is feeling like she cannot communicate her needs to your dad she might be using this bahavior as a “back door” to get a point across. From what you have been saying here I would guess your mom is trying to get your dad to take a stronger leadership role. She is going about it in a negative manner by belittling herself. I am the first to say if a woman can stay home and care for her children, great! If not, then each family does the best with their own particular circumstances. I think this is more about your mom not being able to express herself and is using the Bible to say things for her. I could be wrong. It’s just a guess.
 
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LittleDeb:
The author probably wants proceeds from the book to go in support of the visionaries at Medjugorje. Those visions have nothing to do with the content of the book I’m sure. Medjugorje has not been officially accepted but has not been officially denied either.

If the book is well written it might contain information on how a woman might directly change herself in order to indirectly help her husband to change. Example: my husband claimed to be “too tired” to go to Mass one day. He knows that it is tough for me to take the baby by myself so he thought that I would just skip Mass. I packed up the baby and all his stuff and I went, alone. About ten minutes into Mass he sheepishly showed up and took charge of the squirming baby. That is how to change your husband, by changing yourself.

If your mom is feeling like she cannot communicate her needs to your dad she might be using this bahavior as a “back door” to get a point across. From what you have been saying here I would guess your mom is trying to get your dad to take a stronger leadership role. She is going about it in a negative manner by belittling herself. I am the first to say if a woman can stay home and care for her children, great! If not, then each family does the best with their own particular circumstances. I think this is more about your mom not being able to express herself and is using the Bible to say things for her. I could be wrong. It’s just a guess.
Actually, I was wondering the same thing! But then I guess anyone with such a beautiful name as Deb must have great thoughts.😃
 
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harmonious:
Alright, I found out the name of the book. It’s called How to Change Your Husband. The author gives his name as “By a Friend of Medjugorje.” He supposedly made himself anonymous since he did not want to have any credit for writing the book.
I will look into this book. I can tell you, just the name seems problematic to me.

It certainly sounds like your mom has gone overboard with this.

And about Medjugorie…Others were right in saying that it has not been proved or disproved.[Mod Edit: Removed discussion of private revelation]

I might suggest to your father that a Catholic counseler might be a good route to follow with her. I would meet with the counseler first alone about what to do with this, and if needed, later bring my spouse to the counseling sessions.
 
I went to Amazon.Com and read the reviews of this book. There were several women who raved about it, and one who gave it a low rating. From her, I glean that this book is very derogatory towards working women. The other women praised it as “saving” their marriage.

It seems the premise of the book is not unlike Dr. Laura’s Care And Feeding Of Husbands book. BUT, it also sounds liked it’s a bit unbalanced in its treatment of the subject, and that it does not authentically represent what the Catholic Church teaches.

[Mod Edit: Removed discussion of private revelation]

I think the best approach is to buy copies of the documents I referenced earlier, the Encyclicals and Apostolic Letters, and give them to your mom. You can buy them for a couple of bucks each at a Catholic bookstore, or print them out from EWTN.
 
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harmonious:
Yeah, my mom constantly uses this verse to support her claims that the wife should be totally submissive to the husband. I don’t know how I would explain the true meaning of this verse to her.

My mom would say that this proves that the husband is the head of the household, being willing to die for the family. That much, I know, she has is true. But, she uses the reason that since the man is the head of the household, the wife has no right to be making any decisions with the husband.
The encyclicals & other writings of JPII and Pius XI that I posted earlier speak to this subject with authentic Catholic teaching.

Perhaps your dad should suggest Catholic counseling by a counselor or priest because to me it sounds like your mom has some other issues going on and this is a by-product.
 
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harmonious:
Alright, I found out the name of the book. It’s called How to Change Your Husband. The author gives his name as “By a Friend of Medjugorje.” He supposedly made himself anonymous since he did not want to have any credit for writing the book.
RUN from anything that is remotely connected to Medjugorje.
It was NEVER approved by the local Bishop and is a sham.

So many people I know get their “spirituality” uplifted by this sham, just to lead others to this evil site. Stay far away from anything connected to it.

This kind of thing is the “fruit” of Medjugore.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
RUN from anything that is remotely connected to Medjugorje.
It was NEVER approved by the local Bishop and is a sham.

So many people I know get their “spirituality” uplifted by this sham, just to lead others to this evil site. Stay far away from anything connected to it.

This kind of thing is the “fruit” of Medjugore.
I beg to differ. for 2 reasons. first I know people personally of which I have known and trusted them many years before going to medugorje, so thier word is good with me. they have gone on few trips to that aparition and have told me many accounts of mericles they saw with their own eyes. to say medugorje is a sham is no less to call them liars. if they were to be called liars Id take great umbridge at that.these friends include a priest who has been a family friend for 30 years. 2nd the bishop of mostar, has a very questionable history. any of here know better than to trust bishops carteblnache, would you trust the non apporval of these apparitions of the bishop was bishop utener? I think not. this bishop has was in the back pocket of the rigeme that ruled over yugoslavia when it was communist. as far as Im concearned anything coming out of medugorje is trustable as my friends who went there.
 
I have read this book and I think your mother is going a little bit too extream. while I do not aggree with everything the author says, he makes some great points. one thing he discusses is women working and how it’s ruined the home. that doesn’t mean that all women who work are ruining their home. But us women have a special role and it centers around the home and the children and if the wife is not hime with the children, than who is? now, you say your father is not on board with this whole thing. so right there, your mother is desenting from what the autohr says. he says to be subordanate to the husband and she is not by going against his wishes and quiting her job.

one of the chapters is titled, “women, equal worth…yes! equal dignitity…yes. equal authority…no!” our roles in the home are different and someone has to be the head of the family and that someone is the husband. if your father wants your mother to work, than in order to satisfy his wishes, she should continue her job.

I thought a lot of this book was wonderful and has helped me leran to put my husband ahead of myself for the sake of his soul and mine another scripture passage the author uses is from anothe rone of the pisiles, I think mabye its 1 peter2:3 but not sure. it says that a wife will win over her husband with out a word from her mouth. a lot of his points are on quite, loving and willing submission. our culture has us brainwashed to think that when someone says “submit to your husband” they picture the wife on the floor on her hands and knees scrubbing from a bucket and her husband standing over saying, "woman, go to the fridge and get me a beer…and look good while you’re doing it!"that’s hogwash!

anyway, it’s late and I must go to bed. I hope this helps you some. please read the book and discuss it with your mom. challanger her by asking her if she’s being submissive to your father by throwing this whole thing up in his face and quitting her job against her wishes.
 
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harmonious:
Alright, I found out the name of the book. It’s called How to Change Your Husband. The author gives his name as “By a Friend of Medjugorje.” He supposedly made himself anonymous since he did not want to have any credit for writing the book.
Irrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkk! This book is heavily based on the Poem of the Man-God which is on the Catholic banned book list which is still in force. It is quite flawed in it’s Catholicsim. I’d search the forums for the Poem topic.

That said, women should be submissive to their husbands. If the husbands are following through with the rest of the scripture verse, loving their wives as Christ loves the Church, this shouldn’t be a problem. It doesn’t mean that husbands don’t discuss things with their wives. When this is done and some mutual understand can’t be reached, we wives have got to go with the husband’s call with the understanding that he is doing what he believes is in our best interest (as long as we know his decision is not a sinful one).
 
Both my daughter and daughter in law read this book before their marriages.In a world that has been so hard on fathers and husbands they found great insight in the book. When I read it I could identify many things I regret not doing. By that time it was too late and my marriage was over.
Both women love being stay at home mothers and wives.
To do and abrupt change to staying home should never be done without total agreement from ones husband. That would be contrary to the book.
st julie
 
Wow, it’s great to see all these answers that I can use to help clarify this situation. Hopefully I’ll be able to use them accordingly. With that said, I would just like to thank everyone with their responses. Everyone has been very helpful, and because of this, I have various options to approach this subject with my mom. If I have any more questions, I hope that I can continue to post here.

By the way (haha, I couldn’t resist asking one more question), there is one verse that I’m being told by my mom. It goes along the lines of “Woe to the man who makes his wife work,” or something like that. I wonder if anyone is familiar with this verse, if in fact it’s even a verse at all, and if someone could explain it’s true meaning to me?

Thanks again everyone.
 
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harmonious:
Wow, it’s great to see all these answers that I can use to help clarify this situation. Hopefully I’ll be able to use them accordingly. With that said, I would just like to thank everyone with their responses. Everyone has been very helpful, and because of this, I have various options to approach this subject with my mom. If I have any more questions, I hope that I can continue to post here.

By the way (haha, I couldn’t resist asking one more question), there is one verse that I’m being told by my mom. It goes along the lines of “Woe to the man who makes his wife work,” or something like that. I wonder if anyone is familiar with this verse, if in fact it’s even a verse at all, and if someone could explain it’s true meaning to me?

Thanks again everyone.
What wife and mother doesn’t work? Look, I’d agree that a mother inside the home is the best way to go. That said, there are circumstances that don’t allow for this situation. It sounds like she got herself into a large amount of debt. She might have been able to budget accordingly to allow herself to stay home if she hadn’t.
 
For whatever reason she sounds dissatisfied with her lot in life, in her marriage and thinks maybe that life would be better if she was a housewife…I think you (and your dad!) need to find out WHAT it is that has made her so dissatisfied! Prayers!

Anna x
 
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harmonious:
By the way (haha, I couldn’t resist asking one more question), there is one verse that I’m being told by my mom. It goes along the lines of “Woe to the man who makes his wife work,” or something like that. I wonder if anyone is familiar with this verse, if in fact it’s even a verse at all, and if someone could explain it’s true meaning to me?
There is no such verse.

However, you should read the book of Proverbs for what it does have to say about a wife:

Prov 12: 4 A wife of noble character is her husband’s crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones.

Prov 21:9 Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.

Prov 27:15 A quarrelsome wife is like a constant dripping on a rainy day;

Prov 31 speaks specifically to a** working ** wife:

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 *She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life. *

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 *She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. *

17 *She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks. *

18 *She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night. *

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes


25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 *She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness. *

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 “Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all.”

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
 
I googled Woe to the man who makes his wife work," and found nothing. Ask her where she heard or read it.
1ke–great references!
 
Harmonious,

I’d suggest the text of the Book of Tobit.

In Chapter 2 Tobit, a pious man is stricken with Blindness.

His Wife works
10 For four years I was deprived of eyesight, and all my kinsmen were grieved at my condition. Ahiqar, however, took care of me for two years, until he left for Elymais.

11 At that time my wife Anna worked for hire at weaving cloth, the kind of work women do.

12 When she sent back the goods to their owners, they would pay her. Late in winter she finished the cloth and sent it back to the owners. They paid her the full salary, and also gave her a young goat for the table.

13 On entering my house the goat began to bleat. I called to my wife and said: “Where did this goat come from? Perhaps it was stolen! Give it back to its owners; we have no right to eat stolen food!”

14 But she said to me, “It was given to me as a bonus over and above my wages.” Yet I would not believe her, and told her to give it back to its owners. I became very angry with her over this. So she retorted: “Where are your charitable deeds now? Where are your virtuous acts? See! Your true character is finally showing itself!”
There seems to be nothing uncommon or sinful about the Work for wages that Anna did.

It was acceptable, and in this case very necssesary.

In fact, it is Tobit who sins by accusing his wife of stealing. He shows the sin of Pride.

After this incident - Tobit falls into despair and asks God for Death – But God has other plans for him.

In the end it is Tobit’s early spiritual leadership that has paved the way for good things !

My Point ??

Your family is at a point of discerment and change.
“Subordinate/Submissive” may not mean what she thinks it means in practice, right now.

“Head of the house” may not mean what she thinks it does in practice, right now.

Pray that your parents use good judement and discerment in how their wife/husband relationship will play out.

God Bless

todd
 
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