Roll of Works

[KimM]

Hey everyone,
My husband and I are trying to study Catholicism. I am hoping to have our family come into the Church. I have a question that I know he’ll ask.

What is the roll of “works” at the CC sees it?

We are coming from a tradition that says that good works are be evidence of your salvation. They profit you nothing. They can not earn salvation, they only show that you are saved.

Any help is appreciated!!
Kim

 

[Fidelis]

The Council of Trent had the most to say about it and in many ways can be said to be the definitive word on the subject, but a good place to start is the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**MERIT **

You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.

2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining “the promised inheritance of eternal life.” The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. “Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts.”

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.

After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.

If you really want to get thoroughly up to speed, I’d recommend either of Robert Sungenis’ books on this subject:

amazon.com/How-Can-Get-Heaven-Salvation-Made/dp/1579180078/sr=8-6/qid=1166027014/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6/102-5404349-8137706?ie=UTF8&s=books

amazon.com/Not-Faith-Alone-Biblical-Justification/dp/1579180086/sr=8-3/qid=1166027050/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-5404349-8137706?ie=UTF8&s=books

The short answer, of course, is to make clear that Catholics do not believe you can work your way to heaven, or that good works done under one’s own power can save anyone. That would be Pelagiansim which was condemned as a heresy by the Church centuries ago. The Church has always taught that even the grace to come to Christ in the first place is a gift of God and initiated by him.

After we are “born again” through faith and baptism, God constantly sends us opportunities to perform good works and to avoid temptation (again, his initiative). Our free-will response to that grace is performing the work or avoiding the sin. The Bible is very clear that we will ALL be judged on what we have done and what we have failed to do (Romans 2:6-11). And it also makes clear that we will be held accountable for the good we did not do:

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(Matthew 25:41-46)

 

[Chesster]

In a nutshell: good works preserve and increase justification.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hi Kim,

In addition to Fidelis’ excellent and informative post:thumbsup: , I wanted to offer something else. Its not so much theological as just a practical observation.

It occured to me as I was ruminating on the wording of your post, and thinking about the differences between the Catholic teaching on grace/merit/justification and several other Protestant approaches.

Can any church really act on the notion that good works profit you nothing? It seems to me that this catches us in a contraindication. Why? Because don’t at least the good works performed by the church and the pastor profit the unbeliever?

I mean. . . doesn’t the work of preaching the gospel lead others to salvation?

So, at least in that case it seems that work leads to profit?

I suppose that there are two responses to this:

1. Good works can profit other people, it still doesn’t mean that YOUR good works can profit you.

or

1. Good works (yours and others) only profit insofar as the lead one to “Being saved”, and after that event, the good works do not profit those who are “already saved”, they just manifest the salvation already obtained.

But both responses seem unsatisfying, don’t they?

As to #1, how would we explain prayer? Would the “good work” of prayer profit us? Most churches seem to act that way. And as to #2, it would seem nonsensical to me that all that grace God gave to the prophets of old, to the pastors, to the missionaries, etc that enables them to perform those good works should is profitable before but not after a conversion. Once again, why should we pray for ourselves or others if there is no profit in it?

Anyway, Kim, these are just some of my thoughts that have occured to me as I explored the issue. What do you think?

God Bless,
VC

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Hey everyone,
My husband and I are trying to study Catholicism. I am hoping to have our family come into the Church. I have a question that I know he’ll ask.

What is the roll of “works” at the CC sees it?

We are coming from a tradition that says that good works are be evidence of your salvation. They profit you nothing. They can not earn salvation, they only show that you are saved.

Any help is appreciated!!
Kim

Imagine your daughter comes home from school saying “Mummy, the school is raising money for starving children in African, so my friends and I are going to put on a play.”
Is that not a happy incident?

The plot thickens. You see, you and your husband were of the social class where you can just afford privatge education, but only just. Looking round the sate school, you saw that it was a cademically very good, and the English teacher told you that they regularly sent girls to good universities to read English.

However the private school had a well-equipped theatre. “We have a very active yearly fund-raising drive,” said the headmaster, “and we encourage girls to find inventive ways of raising money”. You and your husband realised that the state school couldn’t match that, and so you sent your daughter to the private school. The amount of money she will raise for charity is much less than the fees you could have saved, but she doesn’t know that.

Now have you and your husband acted in the best interests of your daughter?

To thicken the plot a bit further, your son comes from the school say he is putting on a play, because he needs something to go on his UCAS or university admission form. You are not going to stop him, of course, but would you not feel a slight twinge of concern?

 

[Dan-Man916]

We are coming from a tradition that says that good works are be evidence of your salvation. They profit you nothing. They can not earn salvation, they only show that you are saved.

Any help is appreciated!!
Kim

A few points:

Catholics believe in the “process of salvation”. We believe that we have been saved, 1 Pet 3:19-21, we are being saved, 1 Cor 1:18, and that our salvation is a future contingent process Matt 10:22.

Salvation is by grace. Catholics were the first to teach this. Point out the canon of the Council of Trent on the Decree on Justification promulgated on 13 Jan, 1547.
ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM
Canon 1.
If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law,[110] without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

The initial grace of Justification is an absolute free gift.
But remember, a free gift can also be conditional. COnditions on a gift don’t mean we earn the gift, it just means a condition is palced upon it’s reception.

For instance, one condition for the grace of salvation is faith. Protestants would agree with this. Faith doesn’t earn salvation. Faith is a response to grace.

So, in addition, works is a response to grace.
When we have received the initial grace of Justification, our works are indeed meritorious.

But just HOW are they meritorious. As St. Paul says, it is not me but Christ living in me.
Our works are meritorious IN CHRIST. We don’t earn them. It is Christ in us, just as our faith is Christ in us.

Catholic belief is that salvation is by grace. That is certain. However, where Catholics differ from Protestants is that we believe that we must co-operate with God’s grace. We must say yes, and we must allow that grace to transform us.
That means saying yes to the good works that he has prepared for us (see Ephesians 2:10-11 and remind them that that is the context for reading Ephesians 2:8-9). That means saying no to sin.

We have an inheritance, as it says in Ephesians 1:13-16. But we can lose that inheritance. As it says in Ephesians, we have a promise but have not yet acquired possession of it. There is no Once Saved Always Saved.

 

[KimM]

Hey, thanks for the replys. I agree with the Catholic teaching. I just need to be able to communicate them to my husband in a way that he will understand.
Because we have been in Protestant churches for so long now, it’s hard to fight the anti-Catholic way of thinking. That’s probably why it has taken me so long to come back to the Church. I’m sure it’s going to be tough for my husband. I also know he would appreciate a well thought out, but also easy to understand agruement for the CC.

 

[KimM]

What I mean about “good works profit nothing” is that they can not save you. That is the belief of the Protestant church we are in. I don’t think the Catholic Church says that good works will save you either but that is certainly the common perception in the Protestant church.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hi Kim,

I hope these forums will be a good place for you to hash things out. Have you checked the catholic.com main website articles onvarious topics? They might be useful to you as well.

In regard to the good works not being operative for salvation, since both your church and the CC agree, what do you think might be the sticking point for your husband?

God bless!
VC

 

[KimM]

I think the sticking point, so to speak, will be overcoming his mispreceptions about the CC. I’ll have to have some good sources to show him what the church officially teaches.

 

[FCEGM]

Hey, thanks for the replys. I agree with the Catholic teaching. I just need to be able to communicate them to my husband in a way that he will understand.
Because we have been in Protestant churches for so long now, it’s hard to fight the anti-Catholic way of thinking. That’s probably why it has taken me so long to come back to the Church. I’m sure it’s going to be tough for my husband. I also know he would appreciate a well thought out, but also easy to understand agruement for the CC.

Kim, I think you’d find this article (as well as the others at the site) helpful:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a127.htm

 

[trogiah]

Hey everyone,
My husband and I are trying to study Catholicism. I am hoping to have our family come into the Church. I have a question that I know he’ll ask.

What is the roll of “works” at the CC sees it?

We are coming from a tradition that says that good works are be evidence of your salvation. They profit you nothing. They can not earn salvation, they only show that you are saved.

Any help is appreciated!!
Kim

I think Jesus answers this question best when he says:

“A tree is known by its fruit”

Another thing to consider is that if “good works” did count for something than someone with greater capacity to work would be more “saved”.

Recall the story of the widow who gave her last 2 cents to the church. As a “good work” this would be considered unremarkable to most of us. What good is 2 cents going to do…?

Jesus was impressed by it - because it showed her complete devotion to God even if the material size of her contribution wasn’t very great.

peace

Jim

 

[Fidelis]

Another thing to consider is that if “good works” did count for something, then someone with greater capacity to work would be more “saved”.

If I understand you correctly (and correct me if I’m wrong) you, as a Catholic, are saying that good works don’t count for anything? As was pointed out above, the Catholic Church says that good works, performed under God’s grace, DO count for something.

Aside from the fact that what you seem to be saying contradicts the clear teaching of the Church, how does it logically follow that one that “works more” would seem to be saved more? I’ve heard this argument from fundamentalists who erroneneously say that Catholics are taught they have to perform X amount of works to get to heaven, but that is not what the Church teaches at all. We are responsible for doing the good and avoiding the evil that God places or allows in our life, but he rewards everyone as he wishes:

Matthew 20:1-16
1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; 4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.”