Roman Breviary 1962

[Mark1970]

Be careful how you respond. Summorum Pontificum is only speaking to those clerics who are not consecrated religious. Those who are both: priest and religious, must get permission from their major superior, who can only grant it, if the constitutions of his community allow him to do so.

When reading and speaking about clerics, one must always be careful if the statemet applies to all clerics or only to secular clerics. If we misapply a document such as SP, we can innocently set people up for disappointment. The average person in the pew does not know that not all priests are consecrated men. People often use terms interchangeably, when in fact they are not interchangeable, such as : priest, cleric, consecrated, and religious.

SP is one of those ducuments that makes it very clear that it’s only speaking to secular clerics. For clerics who are ALSO religious, the privileges of SP only apply with the permission of the major superior and the constitutions.

The answer to the question is that all secular clerics may avail themselves of the Holy Father’s generous offer without further permission.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I acknowlegde that you are correct and I was wrong. Is that response OK for you? I will no longer post on this subject and will ensure I know what I’m talking about in future.

 

[JReducation]

I acknowlegde that you are correct and I was wrong. Is that response OK for you? I will no longer post on this subject and will ensure I know what I’m talking about in future.

Please don’t take offense. None was intended. I apologize, if I offended you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[diggerdomer]

As far as I’m aware, no permission is needed from the bishop. Reading Summorum Pontificum, it looks as though a priest doesn’t need permission from the Bishop to use the 1962 Missal, Breviary or Ritual

Who can use the 1962 Breviary according to Summorum Pontificum (Art 9, p3) are "3 Clerics ordained “in sacris constitutis”

Notwithstanding, as Pope Benedict taught in his accompanying letter, “Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity…”

So it’s perhaps not quite accurate to simply say “no permission is required from the Bishop.”

 

[JReducation]

Who can use the 1962 Breviary according to Summorum Pontificum (Art 9, p3) are "3 Clerics ordained “in sacris constitutis”

Notwithstanding, as Pope Benedict taught in his accompanying letter, “Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity…”

So it’s perhaps not quite accurate to simply say “no permission is required from the Bishop.”

You are correct. As I said above, we must also remeber that those clerics who were ordained under obedience to a religious community are not under a bishop. In those cases, they are first and foremost, religious, then they are clerics. Therefore, they must pray as their community mandates. This privilege does not apply to these clerics.

I was watching a program with the Superior General of the Missionaries of the Poor. He was explaining their organization. They were founded as a community of brothers. They deliberately ordain 1/10 men, because they want to have the liturgical life as part of their charism, without being overwhelmed by a clerical presence or by clericalism. Their clerics take their marching orders from the brothers. In a case such as theirs, they may not use the Breviary of 1962, because the lay brothers did not vote it into their statutes. There is no room for discussion.

In my community, we have no room for discussion, because we don’t use the Roma Breviary. The same is true for many other communities. These clerics are not included in SP.

The pemission given by the Holy Father did not include as many clergymen as people assume. It gives that impression, but it’s not the case. It only includes about 60% of the ordained priests. If you add permanet deacons to this number, that changes the balance. Then it includes about 90% of the ordained, since the deacons outnumber the priests and permanent deacons are usually secular or diocesan. Though there are some who are religious, but not many.

That’s why I keep saying, let’s be careful how we discuss this so that people do not become disappointed. When people don’t know these details and they walk up to Father expecting one thing only to find another, they get discouraged and that’s sad.

We just had a similar situation. We had a person who approached one of our ordained brothers for spiritual direction. Brother said that he could not do spiritual direction, because he is not allowed to do it. He pointed the person to another brother who does spiritual direction. The other brother is an expert on the spiritual life. He’s not a priest, but he’s a theologian and an excellent pastoral counselor. He’s a gifted spiritual director and retreat master.

To make a long story short, the layman was disappointed, because he had always been told that all priests could do spiritual direction and that all of them were trained in it. Nothing can be further from the truth. Some are good at it because they are well trained in it and others have a natural gift for it. When superiors see that a person has the gift, either by training or by God’s grace, they allow him to use it.

I felt badly for the layman. I stopped to think about it for a moment. I thoght to myself, “We must be very clear about the priesthood, rules, roles, and duties, if we are to avoid seeing our people be frustrated or confused.” On this subject, we must be just as clear. If we love our brothers and sisters, we must do everything in our power to minimize frustration and increase the possibility for spiritual growth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[diggerdomer]

You are correct. As I said above, we must also remeber that those clerics who were ordained under obedience to a religious community are not under a bishop. In those cases, they are first and foremost, religious, then they are clerics. Therefore, they must pray as their community mandates. This privilege does not apply to these clerics.

I was watching a program with the Superior General of the Missionaries of the Poor. He was explaining their organization. They were founded as a community of brothers. They deliberately ordain 1/10 men, because they want to have the liturgical life as part of their charism, without being overwhelmed by a clerical presence or by clericalism. Their clerics take their marching orders from the brothers. In a case such as theirs, they may not use the Breviary of 1962, because the lay brothers did not vote it into their statutes. There is no room for discussion.

In my community, we have no room for discussion, because we don’t use the Roma Breviary. The same is true for many other communities. These clerics are not included in SP.

The pemission given by the Holy Father did not include as many clergymen as people assume. It gives that impression, but it’s not the case. It only includes about 60% of the ordained priests. If you add permanet deacons to this number, that changes the balance. Then it includes about 90% of the ordained, since the deacons outnumber the priests and permanent deacons are usually secular or diocesan. Though there are some who are religious, but not many.

That’s why I keep saying, let’s be careful how we discuss this so that people do not become disappointed. When people don’t know these details and they walk up to Father expecting one thing only to find another, they get discouraged and that’s sad.

We just had a similar situation. We had a person who approached one of our ordained brothers for spiritual direction. Brother said that he could not do spiritual direction, because he is not allowed to do it. He pointed the person to another brother who does spiritual direction. The other brother is an expert on the spiritual life. He’s not a priest, but he’s a theologian and an excellent pastoral counselor. He’s a gifted spiritual director and retreat master.

To make a long story short, the layman was disappointed, because he had always been told that all priests could do spiritual direction and that all of them were trained in it. Nothing can be further from the truth. Some are good at it because they are well trained in it and others have a natural gift for it. When superiors see that a person has the gift, either by training or by God’s grace, they allow him to use it.

I felt badly for the layman. I stopped to think about it for a moment. I thoght to myself, “We must be very clear about the priesthood, rules, roles, and duties, if we are to avoid seeing our people be frustrated or confused.” On this subject, we must be just as clear. If we love our brothers and sisters, we must do everything in our power to minimize frustration and increase the possibility for spiritual growth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks again…as always appreciate your knowledge and insights.