Roman Catholic response to "born again"?

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I have a good friend who was raised Greek Orthodox Catholic but has drifted into a couple of “born again” churches because she feels they are more spiritual. I’m troubled by some of her friends who, like most “born agains” I’ve met, do not consider Roman Catholics to be Christians. That contention deeply offends me. I’m looking for a polite, yet firm, way to counter that ludicrous view. I do not want to offend my friend nor her friends (not that they necessarily care if they offend me), but I want to make it clear that their view is flat wrong. (Ironically, two of these people were raised Roman Catholic and only consider that they became Christian when they were “born again.”) Thanks in advance for any thoughts about this.
 
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LBradM:
I have a good friend who was raised Greek Orthodox Catholic but has drifted into a couple of “born again” churches because she feels they are more spiritual. I’m troubled by some of her friends who, like most “born agains” I’ve met, do not consider Roman Catholics to be Christians. That contention deeply offends me. I’m looking for a polite, yet firm, way to counter that ludicrous view. I do not want to offend my friend nor her friends (not that they necessarily care if they offend me), but I want to make it clear that their view is flat wrong. (Ironically, two of these people were raised Roman Catholic and only consider that they became Christian when they were “born again.”) Thanks in advance for any thoughts about this.
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When I am confronted with this attitude, I make light of it, look at them like they’re space aliens, and say “You know, I’ve heard that before, and it just drives me nuts! Where on earth did you ever get the idea that Catholics are not Christian?” Don’t say it as a challenge. Say it as if you think they have three heads. Saturate your intonation with the sub-text: Only a half-witted jackass could possibly believe something that ridiculous.

That’s usually enough for the opening salvo.
 
“Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”
Christ in the Eucharist.
“We beleive in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ his only begotten son, conevied by the holy Spirit and born of the Virgen Mary…”
I wish I could belong to that church. They sound like they like Jesus. Which Church uses all those kind of ideas?

The Catholic Church!!! :bigyikes:

I’m sorry. I always thought the accusation that the Catholic Church isn’t Christian was funny (and annoying).

Maybe you could come up with a nicer adaptation of this.
 
I tend to play stuff like that off as mercygate suggests. usually works well, too 🙂
 
Frankly, you should stay in the presence of people who believe Catholics are not Christian for about the same amount of time you would stay in the presence of loudly-proclaiming members of the Klu Klux Klan.

Scott
 
You have to forgive these friends, especially since their ideas are based in ignorance and bias learned from other even more ignorant and biased than they.

When people have a spiritual awakening (which is a normal part of the conversion process we are all going through all the time as we journey with Christ), they tend to think they had it because of the group in which they had it. That’s partly true. They wouldn’t have heard the Gospel put so forcefully before them in the average Catholic parish. But, what they are wrong about is what they have also been told by their new church–that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach about John 3:16 but let’s it members slide along without knowing Christ.

They aren’t going to be open to the truth that they have based their faith on a faulty interpretation of a book that doesn’t belong to them. But, you can tell them that you, as a Catholic, renew your commitment to Christ at every Mass you attend in several ways, the most important and most deeply personal being in the Eucharist.

And if you pray the daily prayer of the Church in some form of the Liturgy of the Hours or pray a daily rosary, you are also recommitting yourself to Christ in your daily prayers and devotions. Don’t let them get away with the idea that the Catholic Church has no such things or is just about rules and regs with no spiritual life. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
 
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sententia:
I tend to play stuff like that off as mercygate suggests. usually works well, too 🙂
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Yeah, Mercygates style works better but, still using some of the overt parts of worship can help in such a matter.
 
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mercygate:
When I am confronted with this attitude, I make light of it, look at them like they’re space aliens, and say “You know, I’ve heard that before, and it just drives me nuts! Where on earth did you ever get the idea that Catholics are not Christian?” Don’t say it as a challenge. Say it as if you think they have three heads. Saturate your intonation with the sub-text: Only a half-witted jackass could possibly believe something that ridiculous.

That’s usually enough for the opening salvo.
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We are born again…when we are baptised.

Although Mercy gates approach is emotional satisfying you might be missing a teachable moment. If I am not mistaken the only verses in the bible that speaks of being ‘born again’ are the ones where Jesus says that you must be born of water*** and*** spirit. A lot of the bornagainers ignore the part about water, believing that a one time decision is all that is needed. You might be able to start an interesting conversation on this alone.
 
Thanks to you all for your thoughts. If you want to get an amazing perspective on the thoughts of some “born agains” Google “Catholics not Christians.” You might be surprised by the nastiness of a lot of what born agains have posted on that subject. Some even consider Roman Catholics to be pagans! The ignorance of some people is truly amazing.
 
We become Christians by being baptised. It is baptism that makes us Christians.

We are also born again when we are baptised. Baptism removes Original Sin and makes us friends of God. We are spiritually reborn.
 
I was once asked if I had a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” (implying that because Im Catholic I don’t). I replied “Yup, in fact I’m a member of the Church He started”. That’s when the fur began to fly Lol.
 
When asked if I’ve been born again I always respond with:

“Yes… as a matter of fact I gave my life to Jesus about 13 years ago and I was born again. It was then that I started to seriously study the Bible. Two years ago God began calling me to the Catholic Church. I responded to His call and I’ve been so blessed !! In fact, I’ve never felt closer to my Savior. Isn’t it wonderful to KNOW you are doing God’s will?” Then I look at them & smile, ever so sweetly.

Honestly, it leaves them speachless.
 
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MarkR:
I was once asked if I had a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” (implying that because Im Catholic I don’t). I replied “Yup, in fact I’m a member of the Church He started”. That’s when the fur began to fly Lol.
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:rotfl:
 
Della said:
They aren’t going to be open to the truth that they have based their faith on a faulty interpretation of a book that doesn’t belong to them.
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I cant believe that you said this. This is one of the most blaitent display’s of arrogance I have witnessed on this site. The scriptures are GOD’S love letter to HIS people and do not belong to some church. (Edited uncharitable and judgemental personal attack) :mad:
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NonDenom:
I cant believe that you said this. This is one of the most blaitent display’s of arrogance I have witnessed on this site. The scriptures are GOD’S love letter to HIS people and do not belong to some church. (Edited uncharitable and judgemental personal attack)
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:mad:

No my friend, it is not based on arrogance. I’ve seen Della post for a while now and arrogance does not fit. What she said may be infelicitous, but not arrogant.

Scriptures may be “God’s Love letters” to his people but they came to His people through the Church … the Catholic Church. If an ecclesial community has scriptures, they came from the Catholic church; unfortunately they were mutulated by the reformers on the way to those ecclesial communities. Are you offended by “mutilated?” Perhaps that is infelicitous as well but never the less it is true. If I cut a leg off as person, they are mutliated. This is what Luther et al did. Non-Catholic ecclesial communities are left with a diminished portion of God’s revelation. So I would disagree with Della. This diminished revelation does belong to those ecclesial communities who embrace it. Because they cling to their version of revelation their eyes are not open to the fullness of God’s revelation.

I would amend Della’s statement as follows:

“They aren’t going to be open to the truth that they have based their faith on a faulty interpretation of an incomplete book and a diminished Revelation.”

I am sorry if this offends you, but the history is beyond dispute.
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i’d say, “of course i’m a christian… i was converted…”
and i’d say it with a smile… 🙂

Jesus uses the term “born again”, twice in the KJV
of the scriptures to mean be saved… both instances
in John… of course, he uses the term born a number
of times also…

he uses the term “converted” 5 times… 2 in Matthew,
1 in Mark, 1 in Luke, and 1 in John…

you might be surprised to find out that people don’t
realize this… (( protestant people, that is ))

Merry Christmas everyone…

🙂
 
Hi, NonDenom,

That God employed the CC -to assemble the Scriptures -
is a fact of history.

The difficulty started when the “workers in the vineyard”
‘assemblers’] claimed that they ‘owned’ the vineyard ! =
‘sole interpreter’ - ‘unerring’ in such capacity.]

And so we end up with doctrines such as the papacy, sacraments, infallibility, indulgences,
purgatory, dispensing graces, mediators…
‘interpretation’ !

While these doctrines are interesting, they are not
compelling - to one who compares these doctrines
and traditions with scripture…as did the Bereans,
checking their scriptures - to compare them, with what
St. Paul was teaching, about the Messiah.

Acts 17: 11

usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts17.htm

I was told, the other day, that this verse is mis-interpreted.

I replied: If mis-interpreted* means*

“it is not the interpretation of the CC”

then this is a case of circular reasoning.

Best,

reen12
 
Actually, this article has another good explanation, and I liked the last paragraph so much I borrowed parts for my sig:

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I *will be *saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”
 
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reen12:
Hi, NonDenom,

That God employed the CC -to assemble the Scriptures -
is a fact of history.

The difficulty started when the “workers in the vineyard”
‘assemblers’] claimed that they ‘owned’ the vineyard ! =
‘sole interpreter’ - ‘unerring’ in such capacity.]

And so we end up with doctrines such as the papacy, sacraments, infallibility, indulgences,
purgatory, dispensing graces, mediators…
‘interpretation’ !

While these doctrines are interesting, they are not
compelling - to one who compares these doctrines
and traditions with scripture…as did the Bereans,
checking their scriptures - to compare them, with what
St. Paul was teaching, about the Messiah.

Acts 17: 11

usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts17.htm

I was told, the other day, that this verse is mis-interpreted.

I replied: If mis-interpreted* means*

“it is not the interpretation of the CC”

then this is a case of circular reasoning.

Best,

reen12
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reen, what you are really claiming is that the Scriptures have an existence independent of the Church. The Church, as you acknowledge, was the instrument of their production and the matrix of their meaning. Your hired-hand image of the Church discredits the Body of Christ. The Church is the Servant of the Word. To serve with integrity means “to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” (Jd 1:3)

You seem to look at scripture as a book you can hold in your hand, something that you can “own” outside “the faith delivered to the saints.” We hold it as a family heirloom, cherished and protected against 2000 years of heresy.
 
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