Roman Catholicism on Lying and Probablism

[meltzerboy]

My general question is whether Jesuit teaching and the Jesuit order conform to traditional Roman Catholicism. More specifically, a Catholic friend of mine informed me that, according to Jesuit belief, it is permissible to lie when the end justifies the means. In addition, I have found that Jesuits believe in the doctrine of probablism, which, based on my understanding, means that a strongly probable belief or action is acceptable in the face of uncertainty even when that belief or action is less probable than another, more lawful one. Are these principles in accord with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[giuseppeTO]

My general question is whether Jesuit teaching and the Jesuit order conform to traditional Roman Catholicism. More specifically, a Catholic friend of mine informed me that, according to Jesuit belief, it is permissible to lie when the end justifies the means. In addition, I have found that Jesuits believe in the doctrine of probablism, which, based on my understanding, means that a strongly probable belief or action is acceptable in the face of uncertainty even when that belief or action is less probable than another, more lawful one. Are these principles in accord with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church?

It is not consistent with Catholic belief, traditional or otherwise, that the commission of sin is ever acceptable. We do recognize different degrees of all sins (venial and mortal) but even the commission of a small sin is an offense against God. So one would have to ask oneself what ends would justify the means of offending God?

The Catholic faith also does not recognize degrees of lawfulness or of beliefs. An action is either lawful or it is not. Since Christ has invested His Church with the power to define lawfulness in conjunction with the Deposit of Faith, one should consult a priest when in question of lawfulness. The church also designates which beliefs are dogmatic (must be believed) in order to be Catholic.

I was not aware that Jesuits teach or believe these. I was education in a Jesuit High School. I have found that modern Jesuits formed over the last forty years have a propensity to abandon orthodoxy in several traditional Catholic areas. One need only to examine what is taught and accepted in the major Jesuit universities like Georgetown to see examples of these failings.

 

[SouthpawLink]

My general question is whether Jesuit teaching and the Jesuit order conform to traditional Roman Catholicism. More specifically, a Catholic friend of mine informed me that, according to Jesuit belief, it is permissible to lie when the end justifies the means. In addition, I have found that Jesuits believe in the doctrine of probablism, which, based on my understanding, means that a strongly probable belief or action is acceptable in the face of uncertainty even when that belief or action is less probable than another, more lawful one. Are these principles in accord with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church?

No, it is not permissible to lie; it is, however, acceptable to say something which can be interpreted rightly or wrongly by the hearer (i.e. mental reservation).

newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm

Probablism has to do with acting on advice given certain circumstances (e.g., you’re unsure of what to do, so you follow the opinion of several Church Doctors).

newadvent.org/cathen/12441a.htm

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Targeting an individual or religious order not allowed. You may discuss the subject without the targeting.

 

[laszlo]

My general question is whether Jesuit teaching and the Jesuit order conform to traditional Roman Catholicism. More specifically, a Catholic friend of mine informed me that, according to Jesuit belief, it is permissible to lie when the end justifies the means. In addition, I have found that Jesuits believe in the doctrine of probablism, which, based on my understanding, means that a strongly probable belief or action is acceptable in the face of uncertainty even when that belief or action is less probable than another, more lawful one. Are these principles in accord with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church?

When I was young there was a highly advertised offer: some millionaire offered $50,000 (on that time over 10 years of the median US family earning, so in adjusted value over .5 million) to anyone who can prove that the Jesuits ever taught that the end sanctifies the means. There were many contenders, but no winner.

About the probabilism I am not sure. Physical things can be measured, some are larger, some smaller. Moral things has no such exact measurement, this or taht ios more probable, the other less. What is the measurement? Count the argument pro and against? The Satan is intellectually superior of us, so he can tell more arguments either pro or against? If not that than what is the objective measure of more probabile?