Romance vs Sex

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I have a friend, Mary, who’s a christian who identifies as most asexual (I know the church doesn’t really recognize asexuality, so let’s just call her a person who has a super low sex drive). She is really good friends with Anna, who also identifies as asexual. Mary has told me that they have talked about how they want to be “best friends forever” sort of thing… if it’s not sexual, and they’re not going to try to get married or anything, wouldn’t it be okay for them to be like roommates or something?

I know there’s also emotional chastity, not just sexual chastity… how do you determine whether they’re feeling romantic (yet still non-sexual) love for each other vs. like just friendship love? And does the difference really matter?

So confused 😦
 
Why would you think there is anything wrong with two females being roommates?
 
CatholicNinja said:
I have a friend, Mary, who’s a christian who identifies as most asexual (I know the church doesn’t really recognize asexuality, so let’s just call her a person who has a super low sex drive). She is really good friends with Anna, who also identifies as asexual. Mary has told me that they have talked about how they want to be “best friends forever” sort of thing… if it’s not sexual, and they’re not going to try to get married or anything, wouldn’t it be okay for them to be like roommates or something?

I know there’s also emotional chastity, not just sexual chastity… how do you determine whether they’re feeling romantic (yet still non-sexual) love for each other vs. like just friendship love? And does the difference really matter?

So confused 😦
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Asexual would mean that they aren’t having sex or considering themselves a romantic couple. If they are even defining it as “best friends forever”, then I don’t really think it’s sinful at all. Humans are social creatures and even if Mary and Anna don’t want to be in romantic relationships with men, it is nice to know that someone has their back. This is really no different then a roommate situation between best friends.
 
Asexuality does not necessarily mean aromantic. A person may be asexual but still seek out and desire romantic relationships. Just because someone doesn’t want sex, doesn’t mean they do not desire intimacy, or an intimate relationship.

Just leave the women be and stop trying to figure out if you can chastize them for being sinners or not. They may or may not be two women in a romantic relationship that doesn’t include sex. Why does it matter to you?
 
Until this whole same-sex couple stuff started up, no one would have thought twice about two single women living together…
 
If she is asexual, and homoromantic (romantically attracted to the same sex), what does it matter to you? If Anne and Mary are non sexual partners, what of it?
 
Just leave the women be and stop trying to figure out if you can chastize them for being sinners or not. They may or may not be two women in a romantic relationship that doesn’t include sex. Why does it matter to you?
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Perhaps it matters to CN because CN wants to feel high and mighty by condemning them them, but more likely it is because CN lives consistently with what CN professes to believe and, genuinely caring for Mary and her friend, wants to do whatever he can to encourage them to act in a way conducive to their eternal welfare.

The good as it is apparent to the subject is not always identical to what is objectively good for them. You would probably have no difficulty with friends staging an intervention for an habitual drug user. A Catholic correcting his brother adopts an identical attitude. He tries to wrest the friend from some false perception of what is good for him, to show him how it is hurting him, and to encourage him to amend his life in beneficial and healthy ways.

CN’s moral sense is apparently somehow disturbed by the situation, but instead of rashly judging and reproving them for an assumed fault, CN has come here and attempted to discover whether that perception is accurate or not. That is a very prudent and cautious course of action.
 
CatholicNinja said:
I have a friend, Mary, who’s a christian who identifies as most asexual (I know the church doesn’t really recognize asexuality, so let’s just call her a person who has a super low sex drive). She is really good friends with Anna, who also identifies as asexual. Mary has told me that they have talked about how they want to be “best friends forever” sort of thing… if it’s not sexual, and they’re not going to try to get married or anything, wouldn’t it be okay for them to be like roommates or something?

I know there’s also emotional chastity, not just sexual chastity… how do you determine whether they’re feeling romantic (yet still non-sexual) love for each other vs. like just friendship love? And does the difference really matter?

So confused 😦
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What is condemned as sinful is sex with the same sex, theologically there is nothing technically wrong with what you have described to us.
 
Deinceps said:
CN’s moral sense is apparently somehow disturbed by the situation, but instead of rashly judging and reproving them for an assumed fault, CN has come here and attempted to discover whether that perception is accurate or not. That is a very prudent and cautious course of action.
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That is consistent with my intentions. I have no desire to chastise anyone; I simply to desire to know the theological implications of their situation.
Sapphiregirl said:
If she is asexual, and homoromantic (romantically attracted to the same sex), what does it matter to you? If Anne and Mary are non sexual partners, what of it?
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The phrase “non sexual partner” seems to be theologically fine except for the “partner” aspect. I’m trying to unpack the theological implications of the word “partner” as it applies to two people who are asexual.
Dakota_Roberts said:
What is condemned as sinful is sex with the same sex, theologically there is nothing technically wrong with what you have described to us.
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There’s nothing “technically wrong?” So there is something wrong?
 
CatholicNinja said:
That is consistent with my intentions. I have no desire to chastise anyone; I simply to desire to know the theological implications of their situation.

The phrase “non sexual partner” seems to be theologically fine except for the “partner” aspect. I’m trying to unpack the theological implications of the word “partner” as it applies to two people who are asexual.

There’s nothing “technically wrong?” So there is something wrong?
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Technically: according to the facts or exact meaning of something; strictly

They are doing nothing immoral according to Catholic theology.
 
Are you seriously asking if it’s wrong to have a deep, profound and long lasting friendship with someone of the same sex? Seriously?

I knew the gay activists were getting silly about attempting to “out” anybody in history who ever had a deep friendship with somebody, but do yourself a favor and let them keep that flaw in their own camp, OK?

Refer to King David and his friend Jonathan in the OT for your answer. Short version: Of COURSE it’s a good thing! Where I’d draw the line is if they demanded tax breaks, benefits coverage from each other’s employers, etc. Those things were established to incentivize marriage, which is ordered towards producing successive generations of happy, healthy, civilized citizens. Single people can afford to pay their own way.
 
The thing is, Mary talks about Anna like she’s in love with her. Not like she’s her best friend, even though that’s how Mary describes it. And Mary is confused too, asking me questions like “what do you think about this?” She’s established that it is not sexual, but she talks like she’s a young woman talking about her beloved.
 
If there’s no sexual aspect to the intimacy then there’s just no reason to worry. Be honest, is this concern YOURS or is she asking you questions about the propriety? If she has zero urge to cuddle up with this woman, then there simply is nothing wrong with her and possibly something wrong with you for worrying about it! Since when does having a deep and devoted friend constitute a problem?? Maybe I’m just not there and don’t get it, but at least consider the possibility that the problem is in you before being worried for her.
 
I will consider that possibility–but there is a strong cuddle urge. Being physically close is a huge part of their relationship, just not sexually.
 
CatholicNinja said:
I will consider that possibility–but there is a strong cuddle urge. Being physically close is a huge part of their relationship, just not sexually.
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Maybe we’re talking past each other. Sex is not just genitalia. Sexuality is the whole gamut of physical intimacy. If she’s constantly wanting to hold her, cuddle, feels the desire to kiss, then she IS having a sexual attraction. But your role can’t be more than general recommendations for her to talk to a priest in order to figure out the root of this all. I’m assuming you’re a guy here. Unless you are a SINGLE guy and are willing to be potentially tangled up in this poor girls damaged emotional life (asexual is NOT normal), don’t get further personally involved - especially if you’re already married! She needs help from someone safe and trained enough to avoid her attaching to the helper.

Nobody here on the web who has never met this girl can really say more than this.
 
I’m simply trying to understand her situation. So cuddling, even if they don’t want to do anything more sexual than that, would still be considered a sexual attraction and thus a potentially (or actually?) sinful situation?
 
Wow.

I am surprised to see CATHOLICS saying it’s permissible for same sex attracted to persons to engage in romance if it doesn’t involve sex. This completely undermines the disordered status of same sex attraction. Catholics are so entirely caught up in the dogmas and doctrines that they forget principle and reason.

Indulging in any way shape or form in one’s same sex attraction can lead to particularly catastrophic and sinful consequences, and is thus disordered. To say that there is nothing sinful about the inclination itself, does not mean there is nothing wrong with following the inclination as long as you don’t have sex. It is a disordered inclination.

Treat these people with respect and compassion. That doesn’t mean telling them nothing is wrong so long as they don’t fornicate.
 
manualman said:
If there’s no sexual aspect to the intimacy then there’s just no reason to worry. Be honest, is this concern YOURS or is she asking you questions about the propriety? If she has zero urge to cuddle up with this woman, then there simply is nothing wrong with her and possibly something wrong with you for worrying about it! Since when does having a deep and devoted friend constitute a problem?? Maybe I’m just not there and don’t get it, but at least consider the possibility that the problem is in you before being worried for her.
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When did cuddling become sexual?
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_88/1160019777h8aIS7.jpg
manualman said:
Maybe we’re talking past each other. Sex is not just genitalia. Sexuality is the whole gamut of physical intimacy. If she’s constantly wanting to hold her, cuddle, feels the desire to kiss, then she IS having a sexual attraction. But your role can’t be more than general recommendations for her to talk to a priest in order to figure out the root of this all. I’m assuming you’re a guy here. Unless you are a SINGLE guy and are willing to be potentially tangled up in this poor girls damaged emotional life (asexual is NOT normal), don’t get further personally involved - especially if you’re already married! She needs help from someone safe and trained enough to avoid her attaching to the helper.

Nobody here on the web who has never met this girl can really say more than this.
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Do you mean “making out” when you say “feels the desire to kiss”?
CatholicNinja said:
I’m simply trying to understand her situation. So cuddling, even if they don’t want to do anything more sexual than that, would still be considered a sexual attraction and thus a potentially (or actually?) sinful situation?
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It isn’t according to Catholic teaching.
FaithBuild18 said:
Wow.

I am surprised to see CATHOLICS saying it’s permissible for same sex attracted to persons to engage in romance if it doesn’t involve sex. This completely undermines the disordered status of same sex attraction. Catholics are so entirely caught up in the dogmas and doctrines that they forget principle and reason.

Indulging in any way shape or form in one’s same sex attraction can lead to particularly catastrophic and sinful consequences, and is thus disordered. To say that there is nothing sinful about the inclination itself, does not mean there is nothing wrong with following the inclination as long as you don’t have sex. It is a disordered inclination.

Treat these people with respect and compassion. That doesn’t mean telling them nothing is wrong so long as they don’t fornicate.
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Being very close and romance are not the same thing. You’re drawing all sorts of unwarranted conclusions from what is in the Catechism and in Encyclicals
 
Dakota_Roberts said:
When did cuddling become sexual?
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Two adults “cuddling” has an element of sexuality. A parent and a child can “cuddle” and anyone of any age can “cuddle” a pet. But two adults embracing and staying in a cuddle…Yes, you know it’s sexual.

If just one of these women wants things to get sexual and the other doesn’t, it’s time to put up some boundaries or things will start to happen.
 
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