Romanian Orthodox and Roman Catholic priests concelebrate Divine Liturgy in Romania

[josephdaniel29]

This thread is about concelebration, and when it can be allowed. The other one is about smearing Catholic clergy, asserting that they believe all sorts of crazy things, and how easily Catholics are duped and led astray.

It’s an endemic and uncharitable attitude by some Orthodox and stiff-necked Orthodox clergy over there.

Which yet again has no bearing on this thread. If you want to criticize “stiff-necked” Orthodox clergy then be a man and critcize them where they have the opportunity to respond.

In Christ
Joe

 

[sidbrown]

It was also an Oriental Orthodox priest, not an Eastern Orthodox priest. An important distinction.

How do you know this?
In the first place, how many OO are actually in Romania today? Perhaps a few Armenians. Secondly, the altar looks to me like an EO Church.
How do you know that it was an OO priest?

 

[StTommyMore]

Do those provisions allow for a Catholic priest to concelebrate at an Orthodox altar? Concelebration necessarily includes Eucharistic communion. Do the provisions extend to the reception of the Eucharist as is alleged in this article? Under these circumstances isn’t that forbidden under current Catholic canon law?

In Christ
Joe

The Catholic Church is a bit more open about this that the Orthodox. We recognize the validity of Orthodox Sacraments, to the point that an Orthodox that converts to Catholicism merely needs to make a confession of faith. Even an Orthodox priest only needs to recognize the authority of the Papacy. Under certain circumstances, a Catholic may receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Church, and an Orthodox may receive at a CAtholic Mass with the permission of their own Bishop. (I believe this is true ant any rate. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination).

 

[Nine_Two]

How do you know this?
In the first place, how many OO are actually in Romania today? Perhaps a few Armenians. Secondly, the altar looks to me like an EO Church.
How do you know that it was an OO priest?

I was talking about the post I was quoting, which mentioned a concelebrated liturgy between a Melikite Priest and a Syriac Orthodox Priests. The Syriac Orthodox Church is OO.

The priest in the story in question, as I said in my first post, was under the influence of a known heretic - if the original story is to be believed.

 

[Nine_Two]

This thread is about concelebration, and when it can be allowed. The other one is about smearing Catholic clergy, asserting that they believe all sorts of crazy things, and how easily Catholics are duped and led astray.

It’s an endemic and uncharitable attitude by some Orthodox and stiff-necked Orthodox clergy over there.

Speaking of being uncharitable…

We know you Catholics are far more humble than us. No need to rub it in.

 

[Ghosty]

CIC and CCEO both explicitly prohibit concelebration of the Mass or Divine Liturgy with non-Catholic clergy----there are no exceptions listed----concelebration being the consecration of the sacred elements by both priests. However, when there are intermarriages, an Orthodox priest (from a Catholic canonical perspective), may be invited to offer prayers for the couple or in the case of baptism, to say some of the prayers of the ceremony when the child is that of an intermarried couple.

For those who say concelebration is permitted, we need sources, please (I’ve provided mine), otherwise, saying this is permitted is downright scandalous and dangerous to the faith of those concerned and promotes indifference to the unity of the Church.

Well, then in this case our Bishop was allowing it under economia. Canons are there to uplift and protect, not hamper genuine celebrations in Christ.

Peace and God bless!

 

[mardukm]

Well, then in this case our Bishop was allowing it under economia. Canons are there to uplift and protect, not hamper genuine celebrations in Christ.

Peace and God bless!

Yes, indeedee. Canon law states:

“Whenever he judges that it contributes to their spiritual welfare, the diocesan bishop can dispense the faithful from disciplinary laws, both universal laws and those particulars laws made by the supreme ecclesiastical authority in his territory or his subjects.”

The only thing to remember is that a dispensation by its very nature cannot replace the law. So a dispensation can never be regarded as normative.

Blessings

 

[sidbrown]

I was talking about the post I was quoting, which mentioned a concelebrated liturgy between a Melikite Priest and a Syriac Orthodox Priests. The Syriac Orthodox Church is OO.

The priest in the story in question, as I said in my first post, was under the influence of a known heretic - if the original story is to be believed.

the original post and the pictures concerned an Orthodox priest in Romania and a Roman Catholic priest.
So you were not referring to the original post and pictures?

 

[Nine_Two]

the original post and the pictures concerned an Orthodox priest in Romania and a Roman Catholic priest.
So you were not referring to the original post and pictures?

My apologies, I was posting about the post quoted by the post I was quoting. I should have been clearer.

 

[Kokomoka]

The Catholic Church is a bit more open about this that the Orthodox. We recognize the validity of Orthodox Sacraments, to the point that an Orthodox that converts to Catholicism merely needs to make a confession of faith. Even an Orthodox priest only needs to recognize the authority of the Papacy. Under certain circumstances, a Catholic may receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Church, and an Orthodox may receive at a CAtholic Mass with the permission of their own Bishop. (I believe this is true ant any rate. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination).

Touching on this subject…and correct me if I’m in error…did the Pope and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch co-celebrate the Divine Liturgy?
Personally, I think our co-celebration at times would make our Lord most happy.!!!

 

[josephdaniel29]

Touching on this subject…and correct me if I’m in error…did the Pope and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch co-celebrate the Divine Liturgy?
Personally, I think our co-celebration at times would make our Lord most happy.!!!

The term concelebration has specific connotations including serving together at the altar and sharing of Eucharistic communion. That is different from attending each other’s services and perhaps offering prayers such as what happened at the Phanar in 2007 and at St Peter’s a couple of years ago.

So in short no, the Pope has not concelebrated with any Orthodox hierarch for many centuries.

In Christ
Joe

 

[1inICXC]

It’s very interesting to read the posts here on this thread compared to the tone and attitude on another location where this same topic is being discussed.

orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29992.0.html

Be thankful that you are not a Romanian-speaking Catholic. You would be crying your eyes out to see what they are saying on the Romanian blogs and in the press. Not a single trace of love or goodwill.

In regards to the topic, I believe it is hard to determine whether the concelebration DID in fact occur. Seeing as the consecration is done with the back to the people while there’s chanting in the background I think only the 2 priests can know whether they consecrated the gifts together or not.

I think a point to be made is that the priests are and HAVE to be in total obedience to their Bishops and the canons of the Church, but when I see what kind of venom some are spitting as a result of this, including those in the hierarchy, I wonder who those Bishops and Canons truly represent. I have a feeling that Christ would WISH for His disciples to worship together. How do we demonstrate our love the rest of the world when we make a scandal and punish 2 priests - so called “brothers in Christ”- serving together?

What father would not want his sons to dine together and what brother would be able to say to his brother that he loves him but will not share a meal with him, worse yet, expel him from his house?!

If the priests have wronged their respective Church than I understand that disciplinary action must be taken (in the case of the Orthodox priest, he has been defrocked), but the Church, if She wrongs Christ for working against His law of love and His wish “that they may all be one” what should be made of that?

Coming from a family where most are ANTI-CHURCH I can only tell you that this is the kind of scandal they love. This is precisely what they will use to validate their anti-Church position and their accusations of hypocrisy. It’s heartbreaking to see the Church give others a reason to turn against Christ.

 

[Nine_Two]

Be thankful that you are not a Romanian-speaking Catholic. You would be crying your eyes out to see what they are saying on the Romanian blogs and in the press. Not a single trace of love or goodwill.

In regards to the topic, I believe it is hard to determine whether the concelebration DID in fact occur. Seeing as the consecration is done with the back to the people while there’s chanting in the background I think only the 2 priests can know whether they consecrated the gifts together or not.

I think a point to be made is that the priests are and HAVE to be in total obedience to their Bishops and the canons of the Church, but when I see what kind of venom some are spitting as a result of this, including those in the hierarchy, I wonder who those Bishops and Canons truly represent. I have a feeling that Christ would WISH for His disciples to worship together. How do we demonstrate our love the rest of the world when we make a scandal and punish 2 priests - so called “brothers in Christ”- serving together?

What father would not want his sons to dine together and what brother would be able to say to his brother that he loves him but will not share a meal with him, worse yet, expel him from his house?!

If the priests have wronged their respective Church than I understand that disciplinary action must be taken (in the case of the Orthodox priest, he has been defrocked), but the Church, if She wrongs Christ for working against His law of love and His wish “that they may all be one” what should be made of that?

Coming from a family where most are ANTI-CHURCH I can only tell you that this is the kind of scandal they love. This is precisely what they will use to validate their anti-Church position and their accusations of hypocrisy. It’s heartbreaking to see the Church give others a reason to turn against Christ.

All well and good that we worship together, until there is unity of faith we are not in communion with each other and should not try to make it look like we are.

 

[1inICXC]

All well and good that we worship together, until there is unity of faith we are not in communion with each other and should not try to make it look like we are.

I know, what I’m saying is that it is the Church’s responsibility to do something about the unity of the faith part rather than spend time accusing, condemning and punishing/disciplining those who will it.

 

[Kokomoka]

Amen. I agree. Two Brothers In Christ being punished. Sad. I don’t want to get into what’s already been stated. Just feel badly for them. Too bad we aren’t in communion…I see work on it…hope it happens. Our Lord would, in my humble opinion, be most pleased to see this come.