Romans 13:1-7 Please Help Me Understand This!

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I am very confused about Romans 13:1-7. It says God appoints our rulers. This is hard to understand because some are pro-choice, some are tyrants, communists, or even Hitler! I think I can understand 13:4(For he is God’s servant to do you good.) because I look at it as they(the leaders) are there for your ETERNAL good, as in being used by God for the cause of some people becoming martyrs, etc. Can someone please read through Romans 13 and please write a commentary on it? Thank you so much! Any little bit of help will help!
 
I read it as don’t reject the authority in place, merely do God’s will. There are many passages in the Bible of Jesus or other important figures avoiding governing authority because of judgement against them. Such as Jesus and parents avoiding Herod’s wrath, but they did not try to usurp Herod’s position or throne…
 
nospamgorecycle said:
I read it as don’t reject the authority in place, merely do God’s will. There are many passages in the Bible of Jesus or other important figures avoiding governing authority because of judgement against them. Such as Jesus and parents avoiding Herod’s wrath, but they did not try to usurp Herod’s position or throne…
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Exactly. Remember that when Romans is written, it’s written to Christians living in the Imperial capital, hiding for their lives from a secular authority that wanted them dead. The Romans killed Christ, and then killed almost all the Apostles, including the author of Romans, Paul. So it isn’t as if Paul was just unaware that some of the God-ordained rulers might be terrible. But Paul’s point is simpler: God created humans to be social animals, drawn towards ordered societies. He predestined some for power, including folks like Pilate – just look at John 19:11. And He predestines them for a reason - broadly, to maintain order in society. As for why He chooses those He chooses, it’s beyond us. Why choose Judas as an Apostle? Why let Hitler survive assassination? These are mysteries we’re not going to grasp in our lifetime, but it might be worth remembering that there’s always more than what goes on on the surface.

We look at a given leader as a success or disaster based on the tangibles, but it’s quite possible that through a failed leader, God draws people to Himself. For example, the persecution of the early Church had the effect of making sure that Christians weren’t lukewarm – you were either in or not, and if you were in, you were dedicated to God to an intense degree, willing to die for Him. It’s worth noting that at least some of the early Church Fathers seemed to almost lament Constantine making Christianity legal, since it meant people grew increasingly lax in their faith. But even this ended up being a boon - it lead to the rise of monasticism, for those who wanted to go the extra mile. All I’m saying is God has a plan that’s generally not obvious at the time, if at all, but there’s still clearly a plan.
 
Belloc Fan and nospamorecycle - Thank you so much for taking the time to share your understanding with me! I really appreciate it and have a clearer understanding of Romans 13 now. I was especially comforted by, “All I’m saying is God has a plan that’s generally not obvious at the time, if at all, but there’s still clearly a plan.”
 
I almost feel it is we are to follow authority if it is ordained by God. However, we know that this authority is ordained by God if [it rewards good works and is a terror to bad], therefore it is Godly to disobey someone like Hitler. Also always follow God, even if following God is against the State, and if following God is the rule of the State than the rule of the state is redundant.
 
I struggle with it too.

I like to live my life in a quiet and simple manner and I think the State (no matter what government it is) seeks to interfere with that ideal.

Though I can obey the law of man so long as I do not disobey the law of God, I see no reason to give the State a higher regard than that. I’ll never understand why so many people place a very high regard on their “patriotism” or take pride in their government or seek employment within it (especially military service). I’m not saying that you cannot, it is just something I’m not comfortable with.

1 Timothy 2:1-2:

I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

2 Timothy 2:3-4

Labour as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No man, being a soldier to God, entangleth himself with secular businesses; that he may please him to whom he hath engaged himself.

🤷

Grace and peace to you all.
 
Not Sure and Medic Mark - Thank you for all your insights! Medic Mark - the verses from Timothy 1 and 2 really enlightened me!
 
St. Catherine of Siena said that “Everything comes from love, all is ordained for the salvation of man, God does nothing without this goal in mind.” I think it’s a good idea to read Romans 13:1-7 with the words of this Doctor of the Church in mind!
 
Even Jesus recognized that Pontius Pilate had the authority to condemn him to death. He told Pilate that his authority came from above, and therefore the real blame would rest with those who had delivered Jesus to him.

DaveBj
 
Concerning being ordered to stop preaching in the name of Jesus, Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” So there are times to obey God instead of rulers. Although, notice that the punishment for disobedience remains. A bad ruler can be a judgement from God for rebellion as in the Old Testament.
The Bible in a Verse

But now once at the conclusion of the ages Jesus has
appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9: 26b
 
Jesus also said give to Ceaser what belong to Ceaser.

Peter in his letter said eventhough we are in the world we are not of the world. We are only residence alien.

Paul was only exhorting us even as we live in this world we should set good example by following the rule of the authority and should not create trouble by disobedience. We are such people; people who can obey authority (of God) and we should have no problem obeying human who have authority. So that when people see the good that is done by us they will glorify the God in heaven.

This does not mean that we obey blindly. We obey insomuch as it is not against the law of God otherwise the rest, well, just give to Ceaser. Not just the money in our pocket, but even then when we pay it to him, the tax actually help us in return, but also we give our loyalty insofar it will not at the expense of our own loyalty to God.

God bless.
 
DaveBj, dtg, Reuben J - Thank you all so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
 
Belloc Fan seems to have answered your question the best. If one was to read the rest of this scripture passage, one will see that the apostle Paul states that civil authorities are appointed for the lawless. In other words, those who are not obedient to the will of our heavenly Father, will much more likely be lawless, and thus require rulers that invoke the fear of punishment for lawless behavior.

Unfortunately, strong rulers or governments can also be ruthless. As Christians we are not required to be agents of this sort of ‘tyranny’. No doubt, there were Christians under Hitler who struggled with this issue. As a Christian, one would be obedient to the civil laws of ‘law and order’, but refuse to participate in the persecution of minorities, for all of us are created in God’s image.

Nevertheless, you have asked a good question, and one that generates reflection on the role of Christians with governing civil authorities. The apostle Paul also says that we should pray for civil authorities that we might live in godliness and peace.
 
Gods_Holy_Will said:
I am very confused about Romans 13:1-7. It says God appoints our rulers. This is hard to understand because some are pro-choice, some are tyrants, communists, or even Hitler! I think I can understand 13:4(For he is God’s servant to do you good.) because I look at it as they(the leaders) are there for your ETERNAL good, as in being used by God for the cause of some people becoming martyrs, etc. Can someone please read through Romans 13 and please write a commentary on it? Thank you so much! Any little bit of help will help!
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Haydock Commentary:

haydock1859.tripod.com/id157.html
 
All authority is derived from God’s authority. This doesn’t mean that any particular ruler or system of Government is endorsed by God. Rather, Paul is making the point that we should be subject to those who God has places over us. This within reason of course. We can not obey the directive to commit evil for instance.

St. Thomas more said something like, “The king’s good servant, but God first.”
 
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