Romans 2:13

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“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”

When Paul says this is he talking about the Jews only or also Gentiles? and if both is he talking about those Gentiles that also believe in Christ or is he talking about before they believed in Christ or only those that don’t believe in Christ?

I directed a protestant to Romans chapter 2 and quoted 2:13 but now I wonder if he will just say that is for those who are not Christians, or that Paul is talking about the Mosaic law and that doesn’t apply to us… or something along those lines.

Can someone help me understand this chapter in more detail? Thank you.
 
“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” When Paul says this is he talking about the Jews only or also Gentiles? and if both is he talking about those Gentiles that also believe in Christ or is he talking about before they believed in Christ or only those that don’t believe in Christ? I directed a protestant to Romans chapter 2 and quoted 2:13 but now I wonder if he will just say that is for those who are not Christians, or that Paul is talking about the Mosaic law and that doesn’t apply to us… or something along those lines. Can someone help me understand this chapter in more detail? Thank you.
In context, Jews. He dealt with Gentiles in the previous chapter, and then in chapter 3 explains how there is really just one principle underlying how both Jews and Gentiles are judged. While 2:13 in and of itself is for everyone regardless of religion, whether Jew, Gentile, Pagan, Christian or whatever, in this particular context the point he is making is that mere conformity to OT rules is beside the point. I think that’s where the disagreement lies between you and your friend. It sounds like your friend thinks that just because Paul applies it to Jews, therefore it doesn’t apply to Gentiles. Not so; it applies to both, but Paul is just focusing on its application to Jews in chapter 2.
 
Ok, thanks. So it’s probably not a good idea to bring up Romans 2 than with protestants b/c they will just write it off as being about the OT Jews?

Oh well.
 
This verse reminds me a lot of James 2: 17-18 ( Verses 17 through 26 say it more completely).

James 2:17-18 ,[NAB]

So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

[]1859 edition](http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id146.html) cites these two passages from scripture in reference to Romans 2:13 :

MATT 7:21

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. "

James 1:22

Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.

Verse 25 of this same chapter of the Letter of James is sounding on the same note:

25
“But the one who peers into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.”

While not commenting directly on verse 13 of Romans 2, the Haydock Commentary gives this interpretation as a way to view the whole Chapter :

“The Jews are censured, who make their boast of the law, and keep it not. He declares who are the true Jews.”

… which concurs with what Diana CC posted, that, in context it refers to the Jews but it is certainly meant for all who listen to the word of God .

Some Protestant believers understand that. There are several non-Catholic commentaries on Romans 2:13-16 all on the same page here .

Here’s a sample of one :
MacArthur adds this helpful note -
Paul here does not use the usual Greek term for hearing (akouo) but the word akroates, which was used of those whose business it is to listen. The idea is much like that of a college student. His primary purpose in class is to listen to the teacher’s instruction. Normally, he also has the responsibility of being accountable for what he hears and is tested on it. If he is simply auditing, however, he is required only to attend the class sessions. He takes no tests and receives no grade. In other words, he listens without being held accountable for what he hears. In many synagogues during Paul’s time, teaching did not focus on Scripture but on the system of man-made traditions that the rabbis had developed over the centuries since the Exile. Frequently, God’s Word in the OT was merely read and listened to, without explanation or application. Most Jews, therefore, were simply “auditing the course,” hearers of the Law and nothing more. But God recognizes no mere “auditors” of His Word. The more a person hears His truth, the more he is responsible for believing and obeying it. Unless there is obedience, the greater the hearing, the greater the judgment."
.

If someone were quoting the New Testament to me tried telling me it was only meant for the Jews , I might be tempted to answer that “God gave the *10 Commandments *directly to the Jews … Does that mean we aren’t obliged to obey them either ?”

🙂
 
Ok, thanks. So it’s probably not a good idea to bring up Romans 2 than with protestants b/c they will just write it off as being about the OT Jews?
Right. But your friend will probably invoke some form of the Protestant doctrine of “Justification By Faith” - and the quickest way to overturn that is right there in Romans:
“God … will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by **patient continuance in well doing **seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile” (2:5-10).

Notice first that he doesn’t say we are saved by faith, but by doing what is right; and James says essentially the same thing. And second, it is for both Jew and Gentile. Good luck.
 
“For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”

When Paul says this is he talking about the Jews only or also Gentiles? and if both is he talking about those Gentiles that also believe in Christ or is he talking about before they believed in Christ or only those that don’t believe in Christ?

I directed a protestant to Romans chapter 2 and quoted 2:13 but now I wonder if he will just say that is for those who are not Christians, or that Paul is talking about the Mosaic law and that doesn’t apply to us… or something along those lines.

Can someone help me understand this chapter in more detail? Thank you.
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 The word law in his statement is not referencing the OT Sinai code of law. Rather the law referenced is a law that was added Rom. 5:20. This law was put into effect through angles by a mediator. Acts 7:53, Gal. 3:19, Heb. 7:12. Only those who have the faith to obey this particular law by what it requires are the persons who will be declared righteous by God. There are no exceptions.
 
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