Romans 3:23 cannot be applied to Mary

[WesleyF]

Romans 3:23 - “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

Here, Paul is talking about those people who are “under the power of sin” (Romans 3:9). In other words, he is talking about all the people who have the stain of** original sin**, who have the fallen human nature.

As Catholics, we know that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin, she didn’t have the fallen human nature, so Romans 3:23 would not apply to her, since it applies to those who have the stain of original sin.

Some objections could be raised here:

1. “When Paul said that “all have sinned” he didn’t say that there were any exceptions.”

Well, Jesus is an obvious exception, babies who die just after their birth (or who die in their mothers’ wombs) are also exceptions. They didn’t commit any sins. So all doesn’t necessarily mean everyone, and there can be exceptions. It could be that Paul didn’t feel necessary to state the exceptions, he probably didn’t want to divert the attention of his audience.

1. “Where does scripture say that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin?”

This is not explicitly mentioned in scripture, but the same is true in the case of the Trinity and the two natures of Christ, which are also not explicitly mentioned in scripture. However, they are implied in scripture.

The Catholic teaching on the Immaculate Conception is implied in the gospel of Luke, where the angel calls Mary “full of grace” (Luke 1:28). Grace and sin cannot co-exist, they are opposites (Romans 5:20). To say that Mary was **full of grace **would imply that she was without sin.

Also, when Mary met Elizabeth, Elizabeth (filled with the Holy Spirit) said, “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb.” (Luke 1:42) The Hebrew (Aramaic?) language which they spoke, has no way to express the superlative or the comparative. There’s no way of saying greater,better, best, etc. They get across the idea by the use of prepositions. “You are good from him” means you are better than him. In the same way when Elizabeth, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said, "Blessed are you among women", she implied that Mary is more blessed than all other women, including the first woman Eve. Eve was born without the stain of original sin, and if Mary is more blessed than her, it is fitting that she too should be without the stain of original sin.

 

[Scoobyshme]

You might mention, too, that in Luke 1:28, where the angel calls Mary, “Full of Grace” that the word used in the original Greek was “kecharitomene.” This word (kecharitomene) is only used for Mary in Scripture and indcates that she was “full of grace” from the moment of her conception in such a fashion as to be permanent. If one is “full of grace” one cannot be in sin. Therefore, Mary was sinless from the moment of her conception and throughout the rest of her life. All by a unique gift of God.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Romans 3:23 - “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

Here, Paul is talking about those people who are “under the power of sin” (Romans 3:9). In other words, he is talking about all the people who have the stain of** original sin**, who have the fallen human nature.

As Catholics, we know that Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin, she didn’t have the fallen human nature, so Romans 3:23 would not apply to her, since it applies to those who have the stain of original sin.

Some objections could be raised here:

1. “When Paul said that “all have sinned” he didn’t say that there were any exceptions.”

Romans 3:22-24
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Since Mary was saved from the stain of original sin she does receive her righteousness from God through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Henning]

Romans 3:23 - “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

What about this verse? Doesn’t sound like there are any exceptions here.

Ecclesiastes 7:21 DR, “For there is no just man upon earth, that doth good, and sinneth not.”

Ecclesiastes 7:20 NAB, “yet there is no man on earth so just as to do good and never sin.”

 

[Scoobyshme]

Henning,

One cannot properly interpret Scripture in a vacuum.  We cannot simply choose snippets of Scripture out of the context of surrounding passages or the Bible as a whole.

One must interpret Scripture with an eye towards the literary style, language, and culture in which it was written (it wasn't written in 21st century America in English), and always keep an eye toward Holy Tradition (the oral tradition of the Apostles passed down from generation to generation till today), as well as good Bible exegesis.

 If one assumes an absolute in those passages, one need only find ONE exception to destroy the absolute.   Here's one:  Jesus Christ.  Jesus Christ was a man.  He was God, too.  But, He was a man.  Here's millions:  Babies and children before the age of reason:  We cannot sin outside of our free will.  We must knowing CHOOSE to disobey God to sin.  Babies and children cannot do so, because they truly don' t know.  Same for the severely retarded, mentally ill, etc.  Sin is in the will, because love is in the will.  We sin by choosing not to love God, i.e., by willfully disobeying Him.  There are those who are not capable of doing so.  God can, and does make exceptions.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Ecclesiastes 7:21 DR, “For there is no just man upon earth, that doth good, and sinneth not.”

How does that fit with:

Psalm 18:23 I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin.

Job 1:8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you noticed my servant Job, and that there is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil?”

Job 6:10 Then I should still have consolation and could exult through unremitting pain, because I have not transgressed the commands of the Holy One.

 

[Philthy]

What about this verse? Doesn’t sound like there are any exceptions here.

Ecclesiastes 7:21 DR, “For there is no just man upon earth, that doth good, and sinneth not.”

Ecclesiastes 7:20 NAB, “yet there is no man on earth so just as to do good and never sin.”

Hi Henning -

Apart from what has already been mentioned, I would add the following reasons for not applying this to Mary:

1. Mary is not a “man” - the verses speak of men, not women.
2. Mary was not alive at the time of this statement - this statement speaks in the present tense regarding all men.

If you insist that this represents all men for all time, then you get into the problem of denying the justness, goodness and sinlessness of Christ himself! Christ “became man” for our sake yet he was just…upon the earth…did good…and did not sin. How is it - exactly - that Christ is exempted from this verse while Mary is not?

 

[ryanoneil]

I don’t think Paul had such a rigid understanding for the word “all.”

For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous. (Rom 5:19)

If the many means “all” here, then we will “all” be made righteous.

 

[mpernot]

Romans 3:23 - “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

I didn’t see this posted, I apologize if it was. In Romans 3, Paul is talking about sin in context of the Old Testament; he quotes Psalm 14 right before what he says in Romans 3:23. From the RSV-CE:

Romans 3:10-18 - *as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave, they use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood, in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes.” *

Psalm 14:1-5 - The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one. Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread, and do not call upon the LORD? There they shall be in great terror, for God is with the generation of the righteous.

So to understand Romans 3, the Psalm that St. Paul is quoting has to be taken into account. This Psalm is obviously not talking about everyone without exception; if it was, how could it go on to describe “my people” and the “generation of the righteous” in contrast to the “evildoers”? These people must be exceptions to “none have done good, no not one”.

As WesleyF stated in the OP, most people will agree that infants and young children aren’t yet capable of committing any personal sin, so they also would be exceptions. Likewise, Luke 1 explains how Zechariah and Elizabeth were “blameless” before the Lord, and John the Baptist is described similarly - if they had committed personal sin, God surely wouldn’t find them blameless. It is more likely than these exceptions that Mary, the woman through which salvation came into the world, also would have been freed from sin.

Since with all these exceptions it sounds like St. Paul is probably not talking about personal sin, it seems reasonable to suggest as in the OP that he is talking about the burden of original sin that we are all under. And in the same way, we have a Scriptural precedent where God created Adam and Eve without sin. Isn’t Mary so much greater than Eve that she, also, could be an exception? Strictly looking at Scripture for the answer, it is a logical thought process and not counter to Scripture when the full context of Romans 3 is understood.