Romans 5:8-11 Where did this come from??

[simplynoone]

Here is what the passage says:

“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”

Jesus was Jewish and was adament that the Law of God should not be changed and in fact, that his followers will teach others the commandments else they are considered the least in the Kingdom. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Exodus 23:7 says “Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.”

If you do not understand what that means, it simply means this: that the death of Jesus was not a sacrifice for the sins of the People let alone the sins of the world. Killing an innocent person is forbidden and as is stated, it will not justify the wicked in the eyes of God.

Exodus 23:8, “And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.”

Paul, given his stance in verse 16 of Romans 5, proves this to be truth by the gift in which he was offering.

After all, Jesus was clear that what the Christian faith is built on is not at all what it is he was teaching. Matthew 9:13 Even he makes it clear that sacrifice is for those who are righteous and not for the sinner … and why? Because the righteous understand the purpose for it, the appropriate time for it, as well as what type of sacrifices are acceptable to God.

Then, it is true that the gift perverteth the words of the righteous. The death of Jesus did not and does not justify the sins of the world even according to his own testimony. Though, that he was indeed righteous shows in that he said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” That was the mercy that is only in the heart of understanding. If the sacrifice was indeed acceptable to God as Christians believe, then there would have been no reason for Jesus to have said “… forgive them” …

Thoughts on this?

 

[John7]

Lev 16

9 "Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell,
and make it a sin offering.

-also remembering:

the copies and shadows of Hebrews 8:5, & Colossians 2:16-17 as applied to Lev 16

Ex 23:7 does not have to do with an atoning sacrifice

Ex 23:8 the Israelites received the gift of forgiveness on the Day of Atonement

 

[John7]

With respect to Ex 23:8 שחד is more like a bribe as in,

Isaiah 5:23 “Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right!” NASB

-or-

1 Samuel 8:3 “And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.” KJV

-or-

Psalm 26:10 “In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes.” KJV

the NASB translates 23:8
“You shall not take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of the just.”

 

[simplynoone]

Lev 16

9 "Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell,
and make it a sin offering.

-also remembering:

the copies and shadows of Hebrews 8:5, & Colossians 2:16-17 as applied to Lev 16

I rather think of Zechariah 10 when I read Leviticus 16. Certainly what can’t be said is that Jesus being crucified was a picture of Leviticus 16 … and even, it would be against, again, Exodus 23:7.

Ex 23:7 does not have to do with an atoning sacrifice

It has everything to do with what it is I am saying in the OP, for an innocent and righteous man can not be killed for the sins of the world.

Was Jesus innocent?
Was Jesus righteous?
Is his death seen as atonement?

If Jesus could have been sacrificed to atone for the sins of the world, the Roman leaders were not murders and rather priests being justified in their murder of the innocent and righteous man.

Then, as you can see, Exodus 23:7 has everything to do with why it is Jesus could not be deemed a sacrifice for the atonement of sins … not for his own people (Psalm 49:7-9) and certainly not for the world.

The house of Israel, whose blood was spread into the genepools of the world(Hosea 8:8), however does fit quite well what is said in Leviticus 16. The house of Judah being sent into diaspora does as well. The Jews who remained in Jerusalem … also fits. Jesus was not the embodiment of the two goats and the bullock … the People, Israel, is.

Ex 23:8 the Israelites received the gift of forgiveness on the Day of Atonement

They were rather the fulfillment of the picture painted concerning the Day of Atonment.

 

[simplynoone]

With respect to Ex 23:8 שחד is more like a bribe as in,

Isaiah 5:23 “Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right!” NASB

-or-

1 Samuel 8:3 “And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.” KJV

-or-

Psalm 26:10 “In whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes.” KJV

the NASB translates 23:8
“You shall not take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the clear-sighted and subverts the cause of the just.”

None of this argues at all what it is I drew the correlation to … that Paul was offering to those who would follow his gospel (II Timothy 2:8 KJV) a bribe. I Timothy 6:12, even in Romans he promotes seeking glory, immortality, etc. and that these things can be found in his gospel. Though, in Romans 5 (as in many places) he admits he lies, though he claims it is justifiable.

Now, the Scriptures that Jesus taught from make it clear that we, the individuals, die. Ecclesiastes 9:5 … the living know that they will die. There is only One Who is Eternal and that is our Creator.

So, what Paul has offered (even saying that God promised it to us), immortality, has blinded many to what it is Jesus said. John 5:39,40 “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.” Ecclesiastes 12:7 … when we die, we return to the dust from which we came and the breath of Life we ALL have been given returns back to the Giver, that is, God.

Paul teachings lead to service that is conditional whereas the service of the People, Israel, was faithfulness solidified through understanding.