Romans 8:29-30 Predestination

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Waynec

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Romans 8:29-30 29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son: that he might be the first-born amongst many brethren.

(foreknew, predestined aren’t we all made in the image of Jesus?)

30 And whom he predestinated, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

DR Commentary

Ver. 29. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son, in suffering with Christ, in following his doctrine, in imitating his life. This foreknowledge of God, according to St. Augustine,[6] is not merely a foreseeing of what men will do by the assistance and graces of God’s ordinary providence, much less a foreseeing of what they will do by their own natural strength, as the Pelagian heretics pretended: but is a foreknowledge including an act of the divine will, and of his love towards his elect servants; (as to know in the Scriptures, when applied to God, is many times the same as to approve and love) God therefore hath foreseen or predestinated, or decreed that these elect, by the help of his special graces, and by the co-operation of their free-will, should be conformable to the image of his Son, that so his Son, even as man, might be the first-born, the chief, and the head of all that shall be saved. (Witham) — God hath preordained that all his elect shall be conformable to the image of his Son. We must not here offer to dive into the secrets of God’s eternal election: only firmly believe that all our good, in time and eternity, flows originally from God’s free goodness; and all our evil from man’s free will. (Challoner)

Ver. 30. And whom he predestinated, them he also called to the true faith and to his service, without any deserts in them, nay, when all mankind were guilty of eternal death, by original sin. — And whom he called, them he also justified, by faith, by hope, by a love of him, and a true penance. — And whom he justified, them he also glorified. That is, hath decreed to glorify. Yet not all who have been justified, but only his elect, who are under his special protection, and to whom he grants a perseverance in his grace to the end: so that the call to faith, their sanctification, their final perseverance, and glorification in heaven, are the effects of their free election and predestination. (Witham)

Does this mean that God predestines those going to heaven and gives them special graces to get there?

God does not follow linear time therefore He knows who will get to heaven or not? Does God ordain a special few who get to heaven?

If we follow Jesus and all Jesus teaches does that make us the elect and God knows who will follow Jesus?

Is the elect all peoples, just followers of Jesus or just the Catholic Church? I was taught that salvation is in the Catholic Church.only. I know that the CCC has a few exceptions to this teaching.

Any help will be appreciated.

Confused!!
 
Waynec said:
Does this mean that God predestines those going to heaven and gives them special graces to get there?
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Yes, and through their voluntary cooperation with these graces.
God does not follow linear time therefore He knows who will get to heaven or not?
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Yes, He knows.
Does God ordain a special few who get to heaven?
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We don’t know the numbers or percentage, but all those who go to Heaven were elected from all eternity (not at a particular moment in time).
If we follow Jesus and all Jesus teaches does that make us the elect and God knows who will follow Jesus?
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If you do so 'til death, yes. But not everyone who receives God’s graces will persevere until the end. People can lose justification after receiving it. There are Protestants who say that if a person leaves the faith they were never justified, but that isn’t the Catholic position.

[quoteIs the elect all peoples, just followers of Jesus or just the Catholic Church? I was taught that salvation is in the Catholic Church.only. I know that the CCC has a few exceptions to this teaching.
[/quote]

The elect are all those who will eventually be made perfect in Heaven. All salvation is through the Church, but that doesn’t necessarily mean all the saved will have been formally Catholic in this life. If they are not formally in the Church due to invincible ignorance on their part, but they still sincerely seek God (who is Goodness and Truth), they can still be saved.

The important thing in predestination is that we never lose sight of the fact that this is not opposed to man’s voluntary will or God’s desire to associate men with His work and calling them to actively participate in it.
 
God “wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth” (1Timothy 2,4). He gives everybody enough grace to achieve salvation: just “ask and you will receive” (John 16,24), as Jesus Christ said. I suggest you read Saint Alphonsus de Liguori’s “The Great Means of Salvation and of Perfection”.

However, it’s true He gives more grace to some people, like the Virgin Mary. This is not a problem for us, because we are members of the same body, which is the Church: when someone is specially favored by God, we all benefit from it. Moreover, as the landowner said to his laborers: “am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?” (Matthew 15,20).

The Magisterium “teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved” (Lumen Gentium, 14).

But we have to remember: “Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience” (Lumen Gentium, 16).

God bless you.
 
Waynec said:
DR
Romans 8:29-30 29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son: that he might be the first-born amongst many brethren.

(foreknew, predestined aren’t we all made in the image of Jesus?)

30 And whom he predestinated, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

DR Commentary
Ver. 29. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son, in suffering with Christ, in following his doctrine, in imitating his life. …our good, in time and eternity, flows originally from God’s free goodness; and all our evil from man’s free will. (Challoner)

Ver. 30. And whom he predestinated, them he also called to the true faith and to his service, without any deserts in them, nay, when all mankind were guilty of eternal death, by original sin. — And whom he called, them he also justified, by faith, by hope, by a love of him, and a true penance. — And whom he justified, them he also glorified. That is, hath decreed to glorify. Yet not all who have been justified, but only his elect, who are under his special protection, and to whom he grants a perseverance in his grace to the end: so that the call to faith, their sanctification, their final perseverance, and glorification in heaven, are the effects of their free election and predestination. (Witham)

Does this mean that God predestines those going to heaven and gives them special graces to get there?

God does not follow linear time therefore He knows who will get to heaven or not? Does God ordain a special few who get to heaven?

If we follow Jesus and all Jesus teaches does that make us the elect and God knows who will follow Jesus?

Is the elect all peoples, just followers of Jesus or just the Catholic Church? I was taught that salvation is in the Catholic Church.only. I know that the CCC has a few exceptions to this teaching.

Any help will be appreciated.

Confused!!
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Hi!

It is difficult to understand some of this stuff…

…but only if we fixate on a particular theme or passage…

When we take into consideration the Fullness of Revelation we find that:
  • God does not predestine anyone (certain individuals only) to Salvation
  • God does not predestine anyone (anyone at all) to damnation
All are predestine to Salvation–all, means all of mankind:
17 For God sent his Son into the world not to condemn the world, but so that through him the world might be saved.
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(St. John 3:17)
Yet, while Salvation is a Free and Irrevocable Gift, each person must, through freewill, make the Gift his/her own:
11 He came to his own domain and his own people did not accept him. 12 But to all who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to all who believe in the name of him 13 who was born not out of human stock or urge of the flesh or will of man but of God himself.
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(St. John 1:11-13)
These are the “elect;” those who choose to Believe in Jesus and accept God as their Father. Yet, Salvation, as Election, remains subject to man’s freewill:
16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not be lost but may have eternal life. 17 For God sent his Son into the world not to condemn the world, but so that through him the world might be saved. 18 No one who believes in him will be condemned; but whoever refuses to believe is condemned already, because he has refused to believe in the name of God’s only Son. 19 On these grounds is sentence pronounced: that though the light has come into the world men have shown they prefer darkness to the light because their deeds were evil. 20 And indeed, everybody who does wrong hates the light and avoids it, for fear his actions should be exposed; 21 but the man who lives by the truth comes out into the light, so that it may be plainly seen that what he does is done in God;’
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(St. John 3:16-21)
So we are all predestined to Salvation; some of us willfully choose to remain in sin while some of us seek God and become coheirs with Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!

It is difficult to understand some of this stuff…

…but only if we fixate on a particular theme or passage…

When we take into consideration the Fullness of Revelation we find that:
  • God does not predestine anyone (certain individuals only) to Salvation
  • God does not predestine anyone (anyone at all) to damnation
All are predestine to Salvation–all, means all of mankind:

Yet, while Salvation is a Free and Irrevocable Gift, each person must, through freewill, make the Gift his/her own:

These are the “elect;” those who choose to Believe in Jesus and accept God as their Father. Yet, Salvation, as Election, remains subject to man’s freewill:

So we are all predestined to Salvation; some of us willfully choose to remain in sin while some of us seek God and become coheirs with Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel
Click to expand...
This is very good. For me understandable. thanks
 
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