Romans bible study

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A few other OT references.

(15:11) quotes (Ps 117:1)

(15:12) quotes (Is 11:10)

(15:16) seems to allude to (Is 66:18-20)

(15:21) refers to (Is 52:15)
 
Odell said:
sorry guys I just moved and my computer crashed. something to do with my PCP settings? Anyway I would really like to finish this out
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Same thing happened to me about 2 months ago.

I see Ch15:1-7 as General pastoral encouragement.
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For I say that Christ became a minister of the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, to confirm the promises to the patriarchs,
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Oh wow. I have never actually noticed this passage before but after this Romans study and how much I have learned over the last year, this passage really stands out. I’m not even in a position to grasp its fullness. This brings to mind the “righteousness of God” and God’s “truthfulness” in Romans 3:1ff. It really fits with Eph 3:2Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Wow, I am more and more convinced that justification is about Divine Adoption (as Trent says) rather than a legal decree the more I read Paul.
to confirm the promises to the patriarchs,
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For a long time I could never figure out why God put up with the Israelites for so long and even whether He even cared about the gentiles, I never put two and two together until about 2 years ago. I realized that it was God’s promises to the Patriarchs (cf Rom 11:28b) to bring about what He promised, even if that meant working with the stiff necked Israelites God’s plans would go through. Now, through this Bible study and such, I have really seen this theme come out in places like the “righteousness of God,” esp in Rom 3:1-8, as well as other places.
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but so that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: “Therefore, I will praise you among the Gentiles and sing praises to your name.”
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And again it says: “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”
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And again: “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise him.”
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And again Isaiah says: “The root of Jesse shall come, raised up to rule the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles hope.”
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Cool!
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May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the holy Spirit.
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Grace is God’s Divine Life working in us!
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I myself am convinced about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to admonish one another.
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Huh? What happened to total depravity and righteousness as ‘filthy rags’? Oh wait, Paul was not a Calvinist.
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But I have written to you rather boldly in some respects to remind you, because of the grace given me by God
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to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in performing the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering up of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the holy Spirit.
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Grace is empowering, enabling Paul to be a minister, not “divine favor.” As for the “priestly service,” that sounds pretty Catholic to me.
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In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to boast in what pertains to God.
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For I will not dare to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to lead the Gentiles to obedience by word and deed,
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by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit (of God), so that from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum I have finished preaching the gospel of Christ.
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Paul is boasting here, but it is not a prideful boasting but rather of what can happen when God works within you.
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Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another’s foundation,
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This verse brings to mind Protestants, JWs and Mormons. It is amazing how they THINK they are going out preaching the “gospel” to places like Mexico and other historically Catholic nations, but they are doing nothing but what Paul condemns here. They are building on another’s foundation, namely that of the Catholic Church which was already there with the Gospel.
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but as it is written: “Those who have never been told of him shall see, and those who have never heard of him shall understand.”
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That is why I have so often been prevented from coming to you.
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But now, since I no longer have any opportunity in these regions and since I have desired to come to you for many years,
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I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain and to be sent on my way there by you, after I have enjoyed being with you for a time.
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We don’t know if Paul ever made it to Spain, but that was clearly his intention. At that point in history, Spain was literally the ends of the earth.
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Now, however, I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the holy ones.
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For Macedonia and Achaia have decided to make some contribution for the poor among the holy ones in Jerusalem;
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they decided to do it, and in fact they are indebted to them, for if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to serve them in material blessings.
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Catholic = Universal.
 
Clement of Rome tells us: Having taught righteousness to the whole world, and having come to the extreme limits of the west, and having been martyred by the rulers, he was thus released from the world and taken up into the holy place, being a magnificent example of patience. (1 Clement 5:7)

Spain was generally considered the western limit of the Roman world.
 
ryanoneil said:
Clement of Rome tells us: Having taught righteousness to the whole world, and having come to the extreme limits of the west, and having been martyred by the rulers, he was thus released from the world and taken up into the holy place, being a magnificent example of patience. (1 Clement 5:7)

Spain was generally considered the western limit of the Roman world.
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Cool. Clement was in Rome, so he had to have meant past Rome.
 
ryanoneil said:
I think the tradition is Paul was released after Acts 28:30 around 62 A.D. and went to Spain then east to Macedonia and Asia Minor.
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But tradition has it Paul was martyred in Rome. Acts cuts off suddenly when Paul gets to Rome. However, I heard a homily by Fr Pacwa on EWTN for the feast of St Stephen which takes up the entire chapter 7 of Acts (the longest chapter in the book). Fr Pacwa makes a good point that if Paul had been martyred around that time in Rome then Acts probably would have mentioned that.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
But tradition has it Paul was martyred in Rome. Acts cuts off suddenly when Paul gets to Rome. However, I heard a homily by Fr Pacwa on EWTN for the feast of St Stephen which takes up the entire chapter 7 of Acts (the longest chapter in the book). Fr Pacwa makes a good point that if Paul had been martyred around that time in Rome then Acts probably would have mentioned that.
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The other inference dating Acts around 63 A.D. is Luke not mentioning the fire that swept through Rome sparking the persecution of Christians by Nero in 64 A.D.

So if Paul is released in 62 and then goes to Spain and then Macedonia and Asia minor (Phil 2:24; Philem 22) like he hoped to, he has time to return to Rome and be martyred in the mid 60’s.

The Clement quote and Titus 1:5 makes it plausible at least. Titus says Paul evangelized the island of Crete in the east, which doesn’t really fit into Paul’s travels earlier in Act.
 
😦 I’m sorry. I’ve been very busy debating in another thread. I’m glad to see the Romans Bible study continues. 🙂

God Bless,
Michael
 
Im glad we are coming to the conclusion. I would love to do another study of one of Pauls letters but time is just not allowing me to. If anyone starts one let me know

thanks guys

**Chapter 16
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I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is (also) a minister of the church at Cenchreae,
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that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the holy ones, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a benefactor to many and to me as well.
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Greet Prisca and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus,
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who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I am grateful but also all the churches of the Gentiles;
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greet also the church at their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who was the firstfruits in Asia for Christ.
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Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.
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Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me.
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Greet Ampliatus, my beloved in the Lord.
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Greet Urbanus, our co-worker in Christ, and my beloved Stachys.
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Greet Apelles, who is approved in Christ. Greet those who belong to the family of Aristobulus.
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Greet my relative Herodion. Greet those in the Lord who belong to the family of Narcissus.
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Greet those workers in the Lord, Tryphaena and Tryphosa. Greet the beloved Persis, who has worked hard in the Lord.
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Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
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Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas, and the brothers who are with them.
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Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the holy ones who are with them.
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Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.
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I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them.
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For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.
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For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise as to what is good, and simple as to what is evil;
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then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
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Timothy, my co-worker, greets you; so do Lucius and Jason and Sosipater, my relatives.
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I, Tertius, the writer of this letter, greet you in the Lord.
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Gaius, who is host to me and to the whole church, greets you. Erastus, the city treasurer, and our brother Quartus greet you.
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Now to him who can strengthen you, according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret for long ages
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but now manifested through the prophetic writings and, according to the command of the eternal God, made known to all nations to bring about the obedience of faith,
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to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ be glory forever and ever. Amen.) **
 
Odell said:
Im glad we are coming to the conclusion. I would love to do another study of one of Pauls letters but time is just not allowing me to. If anyone starts one let me know
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This thread was a miracle, I never thought it would last to ch16, but it did! And we had some great discussion! Great idea.
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I, Tertius, the writer of this letter, greet you in the Lord.
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This can be used as a trick question for people. Ask them who WROTE the book of Romans. Most will say “Paul,” but you tell them “nope.” Then they will go accusing you of following a liberal scholar, but you just point here and say “Tertius wrote it.” Paul orally dictated but Tertius did the actual writing.
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Now to him who can strengthen you, according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, **according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret for long ages **
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**but now manifested through the prophetic writings and, according to the command of the eternal God, made known to all nations to bring about the obedience of faith, **
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to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ be glory forever and ever. Amen.)
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Great ending. I really like v25-26 which I had not noticed before. This passage fits Rom 1 and 3 of the “righteousness of God” being revealed.
 
Hi,

I just love the way Paul writes.

It is interesting that Paul mentions they had a deaconess named Phoebe. This doesn’t necessarily imply that she was under some kind of holy orders as our modern deacons are, although it is interesting especially when we juxtapose this with:

1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

What was Phoebe’s roll then?

Aquila and Priscilla, who risked their necks for my life:

Acts 18:1-3 After this he left Athens and went to Corinth. And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, lately come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. And he went to see them; and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them, and they worked, for by trade they were tentmakers.

Acts 18:18 After this Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he cut his hair, for he had a vow.

Acts 18:24-26 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately

1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia send greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord.

Back in the day when communication between distant places occurred infrequently, people made more efficient usage of their letters. Which is perhaps what we see here in Paul listing all the people he wanted to send a greeting to all in the same letter, as opposed to what we would do today when we would send a letter to each person.

I feel like when we look over all these names that Paul mentions, that we come to realize just how much occurred in the early church of the apostles which is completely lost to recorded history… there could be stories in themselves behind each of these names, but which we do not know because their records haven’t been left to us.

He calls Adronicus and Junias his ‘fellow prisoners’… one could have interpreted this to mean that they were literally being imprisoned in some way, but I think what Paul instead was meaning was his own experience of being a prisoner in Christ… Christ had appointed him to perform a task which he could not refuse without penalty of sin, and which involved many hardships he would not have wanted to go through, and in that sense he was a ‘prisoner in Christ’ as were the other apostles.

I remember when I was joining the church, Fr. Terry Boyle gave a homily about how the Spirit sends us to places we would rather not go… and I imagine that that was true for Paul.

Paul appeals to his audience to avoid those who cause dissension and difficulty in opposition to the doctrine that they/we had been taught. He reminds us that such people who throw away the correct teaching and deceive others are not serving Christ but themselves. We need to be not only obedient, but also wise towards this. God will crush the devil who is the author of heresy.

Gaius who is host to me and to the whole church, greets you:

1 Corinthians 1:14 I am thankful that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius;

Acts 19:29 So the city was filled with the confusion; and they rushed together into the theatre, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Paul’s companions in travel.

Acts 20:4 Sopater of Beroea, the son of Pyrrhus, accompanied him; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy; and the Asians, Tychicus and Tophimus

Tertius is most likely a scribe that Paul dictated this letter too.

Timothy and Erastus:

Acts 19:22 And having sent into Macedonia two of his helpers, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while.

Acts 20:4 Sopater of Beroea, the son of Pyrrhus, accompanied him; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy; and the Asians, Tychicus and Tophimus

If Timothy was with him at this point as the letter states that that would place the time at which this letter was written in the period described in Acts 20-21. And if Gaius was his host, then he couldn’t have been in Caesarea as I earlier speculated, since he was host of Philip in Caesarea. Due to the number of Greek names which he cites in reference to the location he was in, I am going to put forward my last guess for the time being, that he wrote this letter when he was in Asia, and perhaps in Miletus before he set sail on his voyage to Israel.

As a last mention, he talks about the gospel which had long been kept secret and was now reavealed to all. He finishes by glorifying God.

We should always glorify God in everything we do.

(anyone can say this herself if she chooses)

Lord, make us take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties in opposition to the doctrine we have been taught, make us avoid them, and make us wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil. Strengthen us according to the gospel and preaching of your Son. To you alone be glory for evermore through Jesus. We ask this if it is your will, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

(Thank you Odell for hosting this series, and good work to everyone who contributed)

God Bless,
 
D_M said:
What was Phoebe’s roll then?
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I’ve heard she is possibly the carrier of Paul’s letter. Diakonos more generally refers to a servant or assistant (Rom 13:4; 15:8). Deaconesses in the Church assisted with the baptism of women and similair tasks.
Aquila and Priscilla, who risked their necks for my life:
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They are also mentioned in 2 Tim 4:19

16:13 Rufus is possibly mentioned in Mark 15:21 as the son of Simon of Cyrene
Timothy and Erastus:
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Erastus is probably the figure in 2 Tim 4:20 as well.

16:21 Jason is possibly mentioned in Acts 17:5.
As a last mention, he talks about the gospel which had long been kept secret and was now reavealed to all. He finishes by glorifying God.
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**he has made known to us the mystery of his will in accord with his favor that he set forth in him as a plan for the fullness of times, to sum up all things in Christ, in heaven and on earth. (Eph 1:9-10)

When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to human beings in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, that the Gentiles are coheirs, members of the same body, and copartners in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. (Eph 3:4-6)

For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. (Eph 5:29-32)

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. (1 Cor 15:51-53)**
 
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