Romans bible study

[Catholic_Dude]

Chapter 11

1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? Of course not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3"Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life."
4But what is God’s response to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand men who have not knelt to Baal.”
5So also at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
6But if by grace, it is no longer because of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7What then? What Israel was seeking it did not attain, but the elect attained it; the rest were hardened,
8as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear, down to this very day.”

This should be taken in line with ch9 and ch10. The theme is that Israel the chosen one has been pushed aside because of their sin. The notion of predestining to evil is absent because v4 shows this is due to a removal of a blessing because of sin, a falling from a high place because of sin. Those who did not fall I would say were given something along the lines of the gift of perseverance.

11
Hence I ask, did they stumble so as to fall? Of course not! But through their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make them jealous.

This is incompatible with a Calvinist theme of predestining to hell.

12
Now if their transgression is enrichment for the world, and if their diminished number is enrichment for the Gentiles, how much more their full number.
15
For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

A very traditional pillar of Catholic theology is the teaching that God only allows evil if a greater good can come from it, and this is what Paul is describing here.

13
Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I glory in my ministry
14
in order to make my race jealous and thus save some of them.

This shows God incorporates our plans and actions into His Grand Plan of salvation. Here Paul’s own action has the potential to lead his fellow Jews to conversion (cf James 5:20).

Indeed you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20
That is so. They were broken off because of unbelief, but you are there because of faith. So do not become haughty, but stand in awe.
21
For if God did not spare the natural branches, (perhaps) he will not spare you either.
22
See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
23
And they also, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

As our friend Odell would say: OSAS :tsktsk:

This passage gives a lot of trouble (and some quite humorous and desperate excuses) for those who claim salvation cannot be lost. This “unbelief” and “faith” mentioned here is not just an act of faith but includes your lifestyle.

This passage also strongly supports the Catholic notion of justification, in which “eternal life” comes by being attached to the life-giving Vine and in which you are ‘dead’ by definition when you are cut off from that Vine.

25
I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise (in) your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in,
26
and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come out of Zion, he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;
27
and this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28
In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs.
29
For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
30
Just as you once disobeyed God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience,
31
so they have now disobeyed in order that, by virtue of the mercy shown to you, they too may (now) receive mercy.
32
For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

This is one of the hardest and deepest passages in the Bible and has been surrounded by controversy (even among Catholics, though only on the private/speculation level not dogmatic).**

The main question about Paul’s teaching here is: Will literally every Jew be saved according to v25f? **Or is this only in reference to the Jews alive at the time of **the return of Christ?
**
Faith in Christ is required for salvation, so if some/all who originally rejected Christ are saved a belief in Christ must fit into that theory.

Sola Scriptura is easily in trouble here, and there is a strong opinion in some groups of Protestants (esp mainstream Evangelicals) that the Jews don’t need to convert and we must leave them alone. (the Catholic Church condemns that notion, but sadly some Catholics hang around these protestants too much and repeat after them) Other more conservative Protestant groups rejects the mainstream Evangelical view.

33
Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways!
34
“For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?”
35
“Or who has given him anything that he may be repaid?”
36
For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

This is pretty meaty and tough stuff to think about, and all realization of God’s ways being so much higher and purer and truer than what we can imagine.

 

[Pax]

Romans 11:25-34

Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” ** As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.** For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. Just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy. For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”

This passage is interesting in terms of "election.’ The Jews are elect, but not all are saved. Their election and disobedience is parallel to the disobedience and the election among the gentiles. It is not only parallel but is intrumental in the mercy shown to the gentiles. Final perseverence unto salvation will be granted to a remnant, but not until the full number of gentiles are saved.

The apostle Peter touches on this when he says:

For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.[2 Peter 1:9-11]

This is all very interesting language in terms of “election.”

 

[ryanoneil]

This is one of the hardest and deepest passages in the Bible and has been surrounded by controversy (even among Catholics, though only on the private/speculation level not dogmatic).**

The main question about Paul’s teaching here is: Will literally every Jew be saved according to v25f? **Or is this only in reference to the Jews alive at the time of **the return of Christ?
**
Faith in Christ is required for salvation, so if some/all who originally rejected Christ are saved a belief in Christ must fit into that theory.

I’m trying to understand this as well. I’ve read “all Israel” is likely ethnic Israel considering Paul speaks only of “Jews” in Rom 1-8, then he shifts to “Israel” in Rom 9-11. In other words the reunification of the 10 northern and 2 southern tribes.

On that day, The Lord shall again take it in hand to reclaim the remnant of his people that is left from Assyria and Egypt, Pathros, Ethiopia, and Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and the isles of the sea. He shall raise a signal to the nations and gather the outcasts of Israel; The dispersed of Judah he shall assemble from the four corners of the earth. (Isa 11:11-12)

Northern Kingdom references

**And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the Israelites were like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved; for decisively and quickly will the Lord execute sentence upon the earth.” (Rom 9:27-29)

For though your people, O Israel, were like the sand of the sea, Only a remnant of them will return; their destruction is decreed as overwhelming justice demands. Yes, the destruction he has decreed, the Lord, the GOD of hosts, will carry out within the whole land. (Is 10:22-23) **

But what is God’s response to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand men who have not knelt to Baal.” (Rom 11:4)

Yet I will leave seven thousand men in Israel–all those who have not knelt to Baal or kissed him." (1 King 19:18)

Southern Kingdom references

And as Isaiah predicted: “Unless the Lord of hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom and have been made like Gomorrah.” (Rom 9:29)

Unless the LORD of hosts had left us a scanty remnant, We had become as Sodom, we should be like Gomorrah. (Isa 1:9)

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Rom 10:13)

Then everyone shall be rescued who calls on the name of the LORD; For on Mount Zion there shall be a remnant, as the LORD has said, And in Jerusalem survivors whom the LORD shall call. (Joel 3:5)

 

[mikeledes]

**5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.

6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. **

I like the Haydock Catholic Commentary’s exegesis of this verse:

Ver. 6. It is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. The election of God, and the first grace at least, are always without any merits on our part; but if we speak of works done in a state of grace, and by the assistance of God’s grace, we co-operate with the graces given, and by thus co-operating, we deserve and merit a reward in heaven. (Witham) — If salvation were to come by works, done by nature, without faith and grace, salvation would not be a grace or favour, but a debt; but such dead works are indeed of no value in the sight of God towards salvation. It is not the same with regard to works done with and by God’s grace; for to such works as these he has promised eternal salvation. (Challoner)

And what the Haydock commentary states perfectly corresponds to what Paul states in Romans 2:6-7:

**6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; **

Many Protestants explain this verse away as being merely hypothetical, a point Paul is making for the sake of argument. Of course, this exegesis is rooted in an erroneous interpretation of passages like Romans 11:5-6. In fact, what Paul states in Romans 2 he repeats in Galatians 6:7-9

7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Paul is clearly not speaking hypothetically here and reinforces the Catholic interpretation of Romans 2.

To be continued…

 

[mikeledes]

I believe that the key to reconciling passages like Romans 2 with passages like Romans 4 or 11:5-6 is found in Romans 11:34-36

34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?
36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Two of the major themes of Romans are God’s absolute freedom and man’s enslavement to sin. Any system in which God functions as an employer making obligatory payments for services rendered makes God subject to someone other than Himself. God is not absolutely free. An employer needs the service rendered by an employee and hence has to pay for that needed service. No money, no work. Moreover, if the worker wants money, he or she has to work. No work, no money. :bighanky: So - all things being equal - there is a relationship of mutual dependence between an employer and a worker and hence equality.

If we translate this employer-worker relationship to man's relationship with God, then God is no longer free and is, in a sense, equal to man because there is a relationship of mutual dependance.  Romans 11:35-36 sets the record straight.  What have we given to God *first* that would make God a debtor to us?  The one who gives *first* is the one who has the upper hand because he is the one to whom the debt is owed.  *Everything* that we have is from God.  The only thing we have that is *not* from God is sin.  And this leads to Paul's other theme, man's enslavement to sin.

Even if man were perfect, God still has the upper hand. But man in his natural state is not perfect, due to Adam’s sin. In our natural state, we are under the power of sin and, left to our own devices, we will end up in … :coolinoff: We’re spiritually broke, busted and disgusted. So while we may think we’re :nunchuk: , we’re really :stretcher: What can we give to God in this state? How can sinful and weak man make the Almighty and All Holy God his debtor? There is no equality or mutual dependance between God and man and hence there can be no employer-worker relationship with God. We need God, God doesn’t need us. Man needs salvation and only God can give it.

 God is sovereign and is free to distribute His graces however He wishes, according to His good pleasure.  God is not bound by any man or law outside of His own will.  Hence, there is nothing of purely natural or human origin (works of the law, lineage, ethnicity) that obligates God to give salvation.  Israel illustrates this point.  If anyone was entitled to salvation, it was the Israelites.  They worshipped the true God, they had and observed the God given Mosaic Law, they were the descendants of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).  But their unbelief and the faith of the Gentiles illustrates the point that God is not obligated by biological descent or observance of the law.  While the Israelites had a zeal for God and observed the Mosaic Law, this zeal and observance were not rooted in faith.  They wanted to be obey God according to *their* terms.  Hence, when told that Christ was the Messiah, that He was the fulfillment of the law and hence the terms and conditions of the Old Covenant had "expired," they refused to believe.  And this makes it clear that apart from grace and faith, observance of the law and lineage means nothing.

Since we have nothing of our own to offer God for salvation, we must not come to God with an attitude of entitlement. :yeah_me: We must come to God believing in the truths and promises He has revealed and with a contrite heart. :imsorry: When Paul says that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, he means that we are justified by faith apart from anything that is of purely human origin. Faith is a gift of God, and so are the infused virtues of love and hope. Any work pleasing to God - confession, calling upon His name, etc. - must have faith as it’s foundation. So works done out of faith and love are the fruits of grace and thus have their origin in God and not in human nature.

To be continued…

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Romans 11:25-34

This passage is interesting in terms of "election.’ The Jews are elect, but not all are saved. Their election and disobedience is parallel to the disobedience and the election among the gentiles. It is not only parallel but is intrumental in the mercy shown to the gentiles. Final perseverence unto salvation will be granted to a remnant, but not until the full number of gentiles are saved.

The apostle Peter touches on this when he says:
2 Peter 1:9-11

This is all very interesting language in terms of “election.”

This is interesting, and one part which I didn’t really notice. It does talk of ‘election’ yet not in the fullest sense of salvation. I’ll have to keep this in mind when I read it in the future.

I’m trying to understand this as well. I’ve read “all Israel” is likely ethnic Israel considering Paul speaks only of “Jews” in Rom 1-8, then he shifts to “Israel” in Rom 9-11. In other words the reunification of the 10 northern and 2 southern tribes.
(Isa 11:11-12)

Northern Kingdom references
(Rom 9:27-29)
(Is 10:22-23)

(Rom 11:4)
(1 King 19:18)

Southern Kingdom references

(Rom 9:29)

(Isa 1:9)

(Rom 10:13)

(Joel 3:5)

Very interesting as well. This almost leads me to think that just as God surprised the world with Revealing His Son, there could very well be another surprise (which we can only see a glimpse of) in the future of how God will reconcile the Jews.

I believe that the key to reconciling passages like Romans 2 with passages like Romans 4 or 11:5-6 is found in Romans 11:34-36

34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?
36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Two of the major themes of Romans are God’s absolute freedom and man’s enslavement to sin. Any system in which God functions as an employer making obligatory payments for services rendered makes God subject to someone other than Himself. God is not absolutely free. An employer needs the service rendered by an employee and hence has to pay for that needed service. No money, no work. Moreover, if the worker wants money, he or she has to work. No work, no money. :bighanky: So - all things being equal - there is a relationship of mutual dependence between an employer and a worker and hence equality.

If we translate this employer-worker relationship to man's relationship with God, then God is no longer free and is, in a sense, equal to man because there is a relationship of mutual dependance.  Romans 11:35-36 sets the record straight.  What have we given to God *first* that would make God a debtor to us?  The one who gives *first* is the one who has the upper hand because he is the one to whom the debt is owed.  *Everything* that we have is from God.  The only thing we have that is *not* from God is sin.  And this leads to Paul's other theme, man's enslavement to sin.

Even if man were perfect, God still has the upper hand. But man in his natural state is not perfect, due to Adam’s sin. In our natural state, we are under the power of sin and, left to our own devices, we will end up in … :coolinoff: We’re spiritually broke, busted and disgusted. So while we may think we’re :nunchuk: , we’re really :stretcher: What can we give to God in this state? How can sinful and weak man make the Almighty and All Holy God his debtor? There is no equality or mutual dependance between God and man and hence there can be no employer-worker relationship with God. We need God, God doesn’t need us. Man needs salvation and only God can give it.

 God is sovereign and is free to distribute His graces however He wishes, according to His good pleasure.  God is not bound by any man or law outside of His own will.  Hence, there is nothing of purely natural or human origin (works of the law, lineage, ethnicity) that obligates God to give salvation.  Israel illustrates this point.  If anyone was entitled to salvation, it was the Israelites.  They worshipped the true God, they had and observed the God given Mosaic Law, they were the descendants of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).  But their unbelief and the faith of the Gentiles illustrates the point that God is not obligated by biological descent or observance of the law.  While the Israelites had a zeal for God and observed the Mosaic Law, this zeal and observance were not rooted in faith.  They wanted to be obey God according to *their* terms.  Hence, when told that Christ was the Messiah, that He was the fulfillment of the law and hence the terms and conditions of the Old Covenant had "expired," they refused to believe.  And this makes it clear that apart from grace and faith, observance of the law and lineage means nothing.

Since we have nothing of our own to offer God for salvation, we must not come to God with an attitude of entitlement. :yeah_me: We must come to God believing in the truths and promises He has revealed and with a contrite heart. :imsorry: When Paul says that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, he means that we are justified by faith apart from anything that is of purely human origin. Faith is a gift of God, and so are the infused virtues of love and hope. Any work pleasing to God - confession, calling upon His name, etc. - must have faith as it’s foundation. So works done out of faith and love are the fruits of grace and thus have their origin in God and not in human nature.

To be continued…

Simply Superb. (esp with the new emoticons)

 

[ryanoneil]

Very interesting as well. This almost leads me to think that just as God surprised the world with Revealing His Son, there could very well be another surprise (which we can only see a glimpse of) in the future of how God will reconcile the Jews.

It is definately alot to think about, including converting or not converting “Jews”. It was just mentioned that one must confess faith in Jesus to be saved (10:9) so all “Israel” could also be spiritual Israel (the Church made up of Jews and Gentiles who convert to Christianity).

(Rom 11:26-27) echos Jesus selecting the twelve apostes who were sent them out to recover the “lost sheep” of Israel. (Mt 10:2-6) AND

Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)

Then in Acts we see the rebuilding of the kingdom. Very fascinating stuff.

 

[D_M]

Hi,

This chapter is part of an overrall theme in Romans wherein Paul is reconciling the promises of the old covenant with the new covenant. The importance of this chapter specifically has to do with reconciling this whole fact that God had chosen Israel to be His people and had made promises to them… but how were they going to be fulfilled now, seeing that the Messiah had come and Israel had rejected Him? (and in truth, the rejection of the Messiah was itself a fulfillment of prophecy)

Paul goes back again once more after making such harsh statements towards the jews who have not listened to what has been preached to them, and asks has God rejected His chosen people?

And the answer is certainly not, for God’s covenant with Israel is for ever, and God could not have made this covenant if He foreknew that He would reject Israel. But there is an added dimension to this, which is seen clearly in Paul’s example of the story of Elijah, in that God has not rejected His people but rather He has chosen a remnant of Israel (in which Paul is evidently included) who shall not be blotted out of the book of life, just as He chose remants of Israel to be saved in previous times when God sent His punishment upon Israel.

God told the prophet Ezekiel to shave his hair and his beard, to take a third of the hair and burn it, to take a third of the hair to strike with the sword, and a third of the hair to scatter to the wind, but he would take a small bit of the hair and bind them in his robe.(Ezekiel 5) It’s the same theme, wherein God has chosen a remnant according to grace, which Paul reminds us is not itself earned as a work (it cannot be earned) but given as a gift. It is only with grace that we may do good works.

So what we have then is that God has rejected much of the children of Isreal, but there was an elect who were not hardened. And in truth, they have hardened… many jews have refused to accept Jesus, some even think that (like the American evangelicals) that Jesus is meant only for gentiles but jews are supposed to retain their old traditions… and the corruption of their ancient religion in the past 2000 years has been noteworthy… they do not follow what Moses taught, reform jews question his authority if it really came from God, and we find monstrosities like kabbalah, which teaches that God is simply a grand energy force of sorts that people tapped into to create the sacred scriptures… as Paul quotes ‘let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs for ever’

Paul continues and talks about the great good that God has brought out of this darkening of the children of Israel, because in their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, and this will make Israel jealous; for God has now chosen gentiles in preference to the people whom He had chosen who are darkened. If their trespass does this, which itself is so great, will not their inclusion bring so much more?

With this we are getting into that mystery in God’s plan with Israel. Paul magnifies his minstry… that is to say he is going to the gentiles and preaching to them in addition to the jews, partly in order to make the jews jealous so that they change from being hardened, repent and find salvation. If their rejection brings the covenant to the gentiles, itself a very great, their inclusion will bring life from the dead…that is to say, once the jews convert to christianity, death will finally be destroyed and judgment day as well as the resurrection has then come.

That is to say: the world will end and the new creation will come after the jews convert.

Some chiliastic evangelicals in the United States suppose the existence of a ‘rapture event’ in which in a brief instant all of the jews will suddenly become christians and then the world will end… some even think they can predict it… but we must not listen to them…not even Jesus knows when the last day will come.

In the 17th century, in Cromwell’s Britain, arrangements were discussed to bring the jews back into England after having been expelled for several hundred years, in the belief that once the jews were exposed to the true protestant christianity as opposed to the roman papists who were not really christians, that they would all convert and then the world would end (they thought 1666 was an appropriate date). This didn’t happen though, not all of the world’s jews went to Britain, and those who did go often did not convert.

Needless to say, this is an important part of eschatology though.

The covenant is holy, and therefore those who follow the covenant are holy as well. But if the braches break off, or those who follow the covenant have broken it, and new wil branches are grafted in, or the people who were not God’s people have now become His people, we still must not boast, because (as a theme of this chapter keeps re-stating) we are not in grace because we have earned it so that we deserve it but only because we have remained in righteous faith (which of course must have good works in order for it to be ‘righteous faith’ as opposed to simply ‘faith’). We must not boast or be proud, but remain in awe and humble, for if we are proud and likewise seek righteousness as though it came by our own efforts alone and not in His grace through faith, then we shall be like the jews and likewise broken off. If He did not spare them (the natural branches) neither will He spare us (the wild branches). This of course, as some of my beloved fellow posters have wisely put it, refutes the protestant heresy that a person can never lose their state of grace once they have it. We must remember that God will punish those who do evil, and reward those who do good. We can loose our reward if we do evil, and the jews can find their reward once again if they turn away from evil. For if we can become part of the covenant, how much more should those God originally chose, be able to become part of the covenant again?

 

[D_M]

And Paul returns again to that mystery I was referring to above, when he tells us to understand that a hardening has come upon Israel until all the gentiles come in, and then all israel will be saved.

I do not believe this means that the every last jew is going to find salvation or that jews will be saved because they are jews (for indeed that would be completely contrary to a major theme in this epistle). Rather, just as Jesus said that the first will come last and the last will come first, so we understand the conversion of the gentiles will precede the conversion of the jews.

Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden by the gentiles under the full number of the gentiles come in… and to this day since the destruction of the temple in the 1st century AD, the jews still have not had control of the temple mount which right now is in the jurisdiction of the Palestinian authority, and the city of Jerusalem is partly trodden on by the gentiles in its eastern section which is trodden on by the Palestinians. No matter how much blood is shed, or how hard Israel should ever try to get it, the whole thing will never be returned to them until the full number of the gentiles comes in.

Paul rightly cites scripture that says that the deliverer will come and banish ungodliness from Jacob… now how could this scripture be fulfilled if this hardening of Jacob lasted forever and only a tiny remnant were saved?..a remnant so small, that they left no identifiable progeny in the sense that we could not recognize such a group as christian jews. (ie. if the children of the jews who converted to the faith left identifiable descendants after them just as christian minorities of Indians or Egyptians left identifiable descendants after them such that we recognize such things as Indian christians or Egyptian christians)…or to put it more simply, ungodliness has still yet to be banished from Jacob (unless of course we should think that by ‘Jacob’ only a tiny remnant was meant), and so the jews cannot be hardened forever for then the scripture that says that such wickedness should be abolished cannot be fulfilled.

These things are irrevocable.

…I think somehow, this hardening of jacob will not be as great such that those who are not part of this remnant being saved, who are enemies of the gospel now, somehow some part of those enemies will find salvation even still… but not at the moment…for as was wisely put by another poster here, election and salvation are two different things. For they may be elect to one day find salvation, but they cannot find salvation until they accept the Saviour.

I really like this verse about God consigning men to disobedience in order to show them mercy… it of course doesn’t mean that God causes us to sin… but it reflects our understanding of how God draws a greater good from an evil. How he is able to work evil into a greater good.

For the jews salvation I recall especially some of the things that Zechariah wrote:

Zechariah 8:4-5 Thus says the Lord of hosts: Old men and old women shall again sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with staff in hand for very age. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in its streets.

Zechariah 13:8-9 In the whole land, says the Lord, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’

The tiny remnant of jews who have converted I think is considerably less than a third… someone might argue that the portions Zechariah give are not meant to be interpreted like that though…

I will admit though, that I don’t necessarily know… for just as Paul then says ’ O the depths of he riches and wand wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways’ “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counsellor?”

God’s understanding is incomparably greater than ours as we do not compare with Him.

All things belong to Him, and He works all things to His own purpose in ways which we do not necessarily perceive. The glory belongs to Him and to no one else. This is our belief.

(anyone can say this herself if she chooses)

Lord, we pray that you keep us grafted into this tree of your covenant, forever remaining in your kindness. We ask also for a better understanding of this mystery relating to the hardening of the children of Israel, which has proven difficult for us in this bible study. We ask for these things, if it is your will, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

Verses of Potential Interest:

So too at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace:

2 Kings 19:4 It may be that the Lord your God heard all the words of the Rabshakeh, whom his master the king of Assyria has sent to mock the living God, and will rebuke the words which the Lord your God has heard; therefore lift up your prayer for the remnant that is left."

a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear:

Deuteronomy 29:4 but to this day the Lord has not given you a mind to understand, or eyes to see, or ears to hear.

what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?

Luke 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to make merry.

a hardening has come come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the gentiles comes in:

Luke 21:24 they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Who has given Him a gift that he may be repaid?:

Job 35:7 If you are righetous, what do you give to him; or what does he receive from your hand?

God Bless,

 

[ryanoneil]

I was reading a long article and section 6 talks about (Rom. 11:25-27). I was wondering if the Greek speakers can verify the Greek reference below? Here the link to the full article

First, Paul is not speaking about a future millennial reign of Christ from Jerusalem that precedes the end of the world. No such thing is mentioned either in Romans 11 or any where else in Scripture. Paul is also not speaking about a future conversion of the Jews. Instead, he is speaking about the present conversion of the Jews. How do we know this?. . .

But Paul is not speaking about the timing of the conversions; he is speaking about the manner of the conversions. When Paul says “and so all Israel will be saved,” the Greek word for “so” (houtos) is an adverb which means “in the same manner,” and modifies the verb “will be saved.” Thus, houtos describes how Israel will be saved, not when Israel will be saved. In certain Protestant translations, “so” is erroneously translated as “then,” which contributes to the confusion and Zionist bias of a future conversion. . .

Why will only a remnant return? Because Israel will persevere in their rejection of the Messiah throughout history. When Paul says “until” the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, the Greek for “until” (achri hou) in Romans 11:26 generally continues the action of the main verb (here, the hardening of Israel; see, for example, 1 Cor. 15:25; Apoc. 2:25). That being the case, the Jews will be hardened until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, which is at the end of time. This would mean that the Jews will be hardened until the end of time. In fact, when Christ comes at the end of the world, John says that the “tribes of the earth will wail on account of him whom they pierced” (Apoc. 1:7). This is the wailing of fear and judgment, not mass conversion. As Isaiah says, “only a remnant of them will return” (Isaiah 10:22). . .

Even if, as some argue, the Greek “until” (achri hou) in Romans 11:26 does not continue the action of the main verb regarding Israel’s hardening (which is possible; see Gal. 4:19-20; Apoc. 7:2-3), this would not demonstrate that there will be a mass conversion of the Jews in the future. It would just mean that the hardening upon Israel will cease to the extent that a remnant of the Jews can be saved. . .

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I was reading a long article and section 6 talks about (Rom. 11:25-27). I was wondering if the Greek speakers can verify the Greek reference below? Here the link to the full article

I cannot read Greek, but I thank you for this link.

He makes a good point (as does DM above) about the ‘now’ of Paul’s language (“if they don’t persist in unbelief”), yet I did not see the article address Rom 11:28-32. The strength of that article’s argument is that it takes into consideration the present situation in 11:1-24, but the tough part is 11:25-32.

I have often heard that “all Israel” means the True Church consisting of both Jews and Gentiles since the Church is the New Israel, but in this specific case in Rom 11 I’m not convinced:
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited:** Israel has experienced a hardening** in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written
Here “Israel” is contrasted to “Gentiles,” thus v26 is not likely talking about the New Israel (Church). Further, it says “Israel” is experiencing a hardening, which means this is an unbelieving chunk of people leading into v26, thus “Israel” here is not likely the faithful Jews. Further, without taking into account v28-32, I am not fully convinced of the article’s argument (though I see a reasonable case presented).

I see nothing wrong (as far as heresy) with a future mass conversion of Jews, emphasis on conversion because some people forget and think this is salvation apart from the Gospel.

 

[ryanoneil]

I found the article intersting also. I don’t know how to respond to it exactly.

The thing I had missed all this time (which should have been obvious) was Jacob had twelve sons and many of their decendants never returned from exile among the gentiles.

I have to stop think about this now. I’m thinking to hard and my brain is starting to hurt.

 

[Odell]

**Chapter 12
1
I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.
2
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
3
For by the grace given to me I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than one ought to think, but to think soberly, each according to the measure of faith that God has apportioned.
4
For as in one body we have many parts, and all the parts do not have the same function,
5
so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually parts of one another.
6
Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us exercise them: if prophecy, in proportion to the faith;
7
if ministry, in ministering; if one is a teacher, in teaching;
8
if one exhorts, in exhortation; if one contributes, in generosity; if one is over others, with diligence; if one does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
9
Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good;
10
love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.
11
Do not grow slack in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12
Rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, persevere in prayer.
13
Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.
14
Bless those who persecute (you), bless and do not curse them.
15
Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16
Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.
17
Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all.
18
If possible, on your part, live at peace with all.
19
Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
20
Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”
21
Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good. **

 

[mikeledes]

And Paul returns again to that mystery I was referring to above, when he tells us to understand that a hardening has come upon Israel until all the gentiles come in, and then all israel will be saved.

I do not believe this means that the every last jew is going to find salvation or that jews will be saved because they are jews (for indeed that would be completely contrary to a major theme in this epistle). Rather, just as Jesus said that the first will come last and the last will come first, so we understand the conversion of the gentiles will precede the conversion of the jews.

Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden by the gentiles under the full number of the gentiles come in… and to this day since the destruction of the temple in the 1st century AD, the jews still have not had control of the temple mount which right now is in the jurisdiction of the Palestinian authority, and the city of Jerusalem is partly trodden on by the gentiles in its eastern section which is trodden on by the Palestinians. No matter how much blood is shed, or how hard Israel should ever try to get it, the whole thing will never be returned to them until the full number of the gentiles comes in.

Paul rightly cites scripture that says that the deliverer will come and banish ungodliness from Jacob… now how could this scripture be fulfilled if this hardening of Jacob lasted forever and only a tiny remnant were saved?..a remnant so small, that they left no identifiable progeny in the sense that we could not recognize such a group as christian jews. (ie. if the children of the jews who converted to the faith left identifiable descendants after them just as christian minorities of Indians or Egyptians left identifiable descendants after them such that we recognize such things as Indian christians or Egyptian christians)…or to put it more simply, ungodliness has still yet to be banished from Jacob (unless of course we should think that by ‘Jacob’ only a tiny remnant was meant), and so the jews cannot be hardened forever for then the scripture that says that such wickedness should be abolished cannot be fulfilled.

These things are irrevocable.

…I think somehow, this hardening of jacob will not be as great such that those who are not part of this remnant being saved, who are enemies of the gospel now, somehow some part of those enemies will find salvation even still… but not at the moment…for as was wisely put by another poster here, election and salvation are two different things. For they may be elect to one day find salvation, but they cannot find salvation until they accept the Saviour.

I really like this verse about God consigning men to disobedience in order to show them mercy… it of course doesn’t mean that God causes us to sin… but it reflects our understanding of how God draws a greater good from an evil. How he is able to work evil into a greater good.

For the jews salvation I recall especially some of the things that Zechariah wrote:

Zechariah 8:4-5 Thus says the Lord of hosts: Old men and old women shall again sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with staff in hand for very age. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in its streets.

Zechariah 13:8-9 In the whole land, says the Lord, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’

The tiny remnant of jews who have converted I think is considerably less than a third… someone might argue that the portions Zechariah give are not meant to be interpreted like that though…

I will admit though, that I don’t necessarily know… for just as Paul then says ’ O the depths of he riches and wand wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways’ “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counsellor?”

God’s understanding is incomparably greater than ours as we do not compare with Him.

All things belong to Him, and He works all things to His own purpose in ways which we do not necessarily perceive. The glory belongs to Him and to no one else. This is our belief.

(anyone can say this herself if she chooses)

Lord, we pray that you keep us grafted into this tree of your covenant, forever remaining in your kindness. We ask also for a better understanding of this mystery relating to the hardening of the children of Israel, which has proven difficult for us in this bible study. We ask for these things, if it is your will, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

(Edited due to lack of space)

You always have very informative posts.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

**Chapter 12
1
I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.
2
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
3
For by the grace given to me I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than one ought to think, but to think soberly, each according to the measure of faith that God has apportioned.
4
For as in one body we have many parts, and all the parts do not have the same function,
5
so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually parts of one another.
6
Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us exercise them: if prophecy, in proportion to the faith;
7
if ministry, in ministering; if one is a teacher, in teaching;
8
if one exhorts, in exhortation; if one contributes, in generosity; if one is over others, with diligence; if one does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
9
Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good;
10
love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.
11
Do not grow slack in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12
Rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, persevere in prayer.
13
Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.
14
Bless those who persecute (you), bless and do not curse them.
15
Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16
Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.
17
Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all.
18
If possible, on your part, live at peace with all.
19
Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
20
Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”
21
Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good. **

So after dealing with weighty doctrinal issues (sin, redemption, justification, predestination, Israel and the Church), Paul now moves on to the practical application of Christian moral principles in our daily lives. Now that Christians have received the grace of justification, they must conform their lives to that grace.

We must not conform to this age. What Paul wrote nearly 2,000 years ago is still relevant today. We live in a highly sexualized materialistic culture. So Christian values are constantly under assault. There is a battle going on between good and evil and the primary battleground is in our minds. We are constantly exposed to ideas that challenge our faith (i.e. “God doesn’t exist,” “the Devil isn’t real”, “You’re so old fashioned,” “There’s nothing wrong with pre-marital sex if you love each other”, etc.). However, we musn’t allow these ideas to win. We must constantly allow the Holy Spirit to renew our minds through prayer, humbly and zealously serving God, occupying ourselves with spiritual and wholesome reading, and practicing Christian virtues, especially love. And when we love, we do not seek vengeance or hold grudges. Rather, we forgive and seek the good of our enemies. Evil can only be defeated by good.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Chapter 12
1
I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.

This reminds me of Eph 5:
1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
No penal substitution is required.

As Mike said, Paul is shifting down from ch12 onward from the heavy thinking to more practical teaching (but still very relevant!).

I actually think Rom 12-15 is one of the most overlooked sections of Scripture, forgotten in the sea of Rom 1-8 and 9-11. I should re-read ch12-15 myself.

2
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.

A very beautiful passage. As Mike said, this is just as applicable today. IN Paul’s time Christians were in a sea of Pagan immorality, then as Christianity grew that stuff decreased, now in our world today we are in just as bad of a sea of Pagan immorality and we cannot conform.

3
For by the grace given to me I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than one ought to think, but to think soberly, each according to the measure of faith that God has apportioned.

Notice grace is given to change Paul, it is not a merely external favor. This theme of “not thinking of himself more highly than he ought” is one of Paul’s most important (and hardest) teachings because Pride is king in this world. First Paul dealt with Judaizer pride, now he is talking about pride in general (the Corinthians had serious problems in this department).

4
For as in one body we have many parts, and all the parts do not have the same function,
5
so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually parts of one another.
6
Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us exercise them: if prophecy, in proportion to the faith;
7
if ministry, in ministering; if one is a teacher, in teaching;
8
if one exhorts, in exhortation; if one contributes, in generosity; if one is over others, with diligence; if one does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

We all have our gifts, and we are not all good at the same things. No gift is unimportant.

9
Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good;
10
love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.
11
Do not grow slack in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12
Rejoice in hope, endure in affliction, persevere in prayer.
13
Contribute to the needs of the holy ones, exercise hospitality.

Very beautiful. I pray the Lord may help us all grow in this department!

14
Bless those who persecute (you), bless and do not curse them.

This, to me, is the hardest teaching in Scripture. The words of our Lord are especially powerful here:
43"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighborh] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies*(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat 5;&version=31;#fen-NIV-23279i”)] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
If we only love those who love us we are acting no different than the Pagans! Ouch! uch:

15
Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16
Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.
17
Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all.
18
If possible, on your part, live at peace with all.
19
Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
20
Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.”

More amazingly beautiful stuff, it’s a shame these last chapters are so often forgotten (including, sadly, by myself).

21
Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good.

Just as Jesus conquered evil with His life of Perfect Love.

 

[ryanoneil]

Chapter 12
1
I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.

Some Christians argue that the Eucharist is not really the sacrifice of Christ, but a symbolic offering, because the Lord’s blood is not shed.

This verse demonstrates that not all sacrifices are bloody and result in death.The Eucharist Makes Present Jesus’ One Eternal Sacrifice. It’s not just a symbolic memorial.

In a special way our bodies become a holy sacrifice precisely because they are united with Christ’s sacrifice made present on the altar of the Holy Mass.

 

[Pax]

21
Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good.

This reminds me of Romans 6:23 which says:

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

If we are conquered by evil we have turned to living in the flesh as opposed to living in the Spirit. If we live in the Spirit evil is conquered with good. God’s grace will make us conquerors. This idea is seen in Romans 8:29 and Romans 16:29. We see this same language heavily emphasized in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3 where the Christian “who conquers” is mentioned seven times in the midst of the warnings to the seven Churches.

We can live in the flesh and be conquered or we can live in the Spirit and be conquerors. The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life.

 

[D_M]

Hi,

(Thank you very much Michael, that’s very kind of you…)

Paul asks us, by God’s mercies or with the help of His grace, ‘to present our bodies as a living sacrifice’. There is great meaning in this phrase, because it underscores the understanding of sacrifice in the new covenant.

In the old covenant, the jews offered up sacrifices of goats, sheep, bulls, doves, pigeons, cereals and anything else I’m forgetting… to God as their sacrifice. The meaning of this sacrifice was not that God needed to eat the flesh of these creatures (as other pagan cultures believed about their own deities), but rather He desired that we directed our will towards Him in believing that He was more important than these material things we could give up in His favour. When Moses instituted these sacrifices they were things that were to last forever… and they were to last forever, but they changed their form in Christ’s coming.

In the new covenant, we offer God a sacrifice of our own lives and souls to Him in obedience to His will, giving this offering on the altar of our hearts.

In liturgy at mass it goes: Priest: ‘lift up your hearts’, people: ‘we lift them up to the Lord’, Priest: ‘let us give thanks to the Lord our God’

This is our christian sacrifice, which as Paul says is our spiritual worship.

We must not, as Michael elaborated, be conformed to this world of sin but through the strength we receive through God, we must prove His will which is what is good and acceptable and perfect. If we are conformed to this world, then we are His enemies, and we are no longer then offering ourselves as this sacrifice which is what God requires in us as Christians in our spiritual worship.

We see an element of Paul’s teaching against boasting… he goes into it in greater depth in other places, but it is good to remind ourselves that we did neither create ourselves, nor give ourselves grace, nor did we earn that grace, nor did we make ourselves who we are, nor did we perform any good deed without God’s help… hence, how can we boast in ourselves when He was the One who has allowed us to accomplish what we do?

We should not think ourselves more highly than we are, but only to think ourselves according to who we are… or rather who God has made us to be… and God has made us different too, as He has assigned each of us graces according to the tasks which He has set before us.

Sometimes when I think about this section, it reminds me of a gang of superheroes… each with special powers varying according to the supernatural force within them, but altogether forming one mighty team… perhaps that is a silly thought, but in Christ’s body we all perform a unique and necessary purpose with different challenges for each of us to tempted by and to overcome, and it is in this body that God accomplishes His works in this world.

Let love be genuine… this statement in itself sums up most of the rest of the paragraphs he writes afterwards, and in truth, there are so many things that could be added to the list that Paul has here given of how it is we must love. It is the central duty of the christian in that we must love, and it is daunting, but with God’s grace we can accomplish it.

We must love not only God and His saints, but we must also love those who are evil… now this, as one of my beloved fellow posters have wisely put it, is often a hard task…

it is easy for me to say ‘my beloved fellow poster’, because I know this person is not an evil person who is persecuting me or uttering false accusations against me… it is harder for me, however, to give that kindness to a person who does do such things though, but that is nevertheless what we as christians are in fact required to do. And I will be the first to admit that I have many times failed in that duty.

We must love our enemies. And again Paul’s list is not exhaustive in the manner in which we must do so, although he gives excellent examples: never be conceited, do not be haughty, live peacably as far as it is possible to do so…

We must not be conformed to the world, but we must be with the world, rejoicing with those who rejoice, weeping with those who weep, and seeking peace so far as is possible to do so.

We do not reward evil for evil, or seek vengeance… this doesn’t mean we cannot pass judgment when it is right to do so, or that we cannot punish a person when they have truly done something that requires punishment (for otherwise, Paul would here be saying that we cannot imprison murderers, because that is rewarding an ‘evil for an evil’). Rather the Spirit of the passage and the Lord’s teaching is that we must always do so in love. Not to spite a person in hatred for them (vengeance), but only to bring such evils upon a person out of love for them. That is to say we must love our enemies, and to seek their good always, even to the point of correcting them when they really need it out of our love for them.

 

[D_M]

But back to what Paul wrote… The wrath of God will come against those who offend Him, and He will repay us according to our deeds. We need not ultimately be worried about being avenged, for God will repay. We must never do evil, but only do good, and to treat those who do evil by doing good. For just as Paul quotes the proverbs of Solomon, the one who treats his enemy with kindness will cut to him deeper than any evil act that the wicked enemy could have done himself, as you are in fact proving to him, in a way without pride, that you are better than him as you can do such kindness and he will not.

Good always overcomes evil ultimately, and so we must do good and we will overcome evil.

(anyone can say this herself if she chooses)

Lord, help us live this difficult sacrifice that we are called to do. Do not let us think more highly than we are. Make our love genuine, and make us love not only our friends but also our enemies, so as to bring us to overcome evil with good. We know that this is hard task, but with your help we know we may do it. We pray for these things, so far as it is your will, in Jesus’ name, Amen.

Verses of Potential Interest:

Present your bodies as a living sacrifice:

1 Peter 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ

Having gifts that differ…:

1 Peter 4:10-11 As each has received a gift, employ it for one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace: whoever speak, as one who utters oracles of God; whoever renders service, as one who renders it by the strength which God supplies; in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Bless those who persecute you:

Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

live peacably with all:

Mark 9:50 Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its saltness, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

If you enemy is hungry… coals of fire on his head:

Proverbs 25:21-22 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on his head, and the Lord will reward you.

God Bless,